Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by BroadwayVik » September 20th, 2017, 11:41 pm

Division II for a university of nearly 30,000? Ridiculous. Utterly so.

We may suffer from a few bad decisions over the years. I think simple things like duplicating the UO's green motif also tends to keep us from standing out as the unique entity on our own. The pieces are all here, but decisions to make ourselves totally unique have yet to arrive.

People may think too negatively concerning what Portland State is, what problems it has and what lack of support it seems to have. It's the wrong approach. It's that old, negative propaganda again fostered by the Oregonian newspaper against PSU. Stupid biased newspaper.

People instead need to think about what potential Portland State has as a public university for Portland, what challenges it needs to overcome and what channels of support it can have and receive now and into the future. We need to conceptualize and support a winning university for the metro area. What Chip Kelly was to Oregon as a coach, we need to bring such kind of great political and visionary leadership on behalf of PSU.

In sports, look at W Volleyball. They're doing nicely and well. Golf seems to keep improving. Football, though, seems stuck. Next year is supposed to be the big payoff year for Coach Bruce Barnum. If it happens then great, fantastic. If not, it is time to get to another paradigm. We have to go with those who know how to win, love the Portland area and can deal effectively the Oregonian newspaper's constant negative slant.

I think one of our fearless leaders, Mike Lund, is a primier example of leadership for PSU growth. The only difficulty is he is a Lewis & Clark product and is used to "not winning" through a lack of athletic performance at LC. Maybe WW's leadership will change all that. Perhaps this makes him want it all the more, but it is perhaps more tolerable to him to bear not winning (through L&C conditioning) than graduates of winning programs.

Portland State needs to be aware and studying the historical developments of programs that have moved up quickly --- those like Western Kentucky, Coastal Carolina, Middle Tennessee and the like. We need to be on a mission to have meetings with their officials to find out how if what they did could be molded to our situation here.

They certainly have a lot more spiritual enthusiasm than we do, but they are probably also tuned into that tried-and-true method that will nevertheless work for us in spite of our more "heady ways."

The Oregonian newspaper supports bias against Portland State. I frankly think they should be banned from our athletic events (tit-for-tat), but there are probably mechanisms political and monetary that will ultimately -- unfortunately -- keep them in the mix. Pity, because they are one of our worst political enemies. Makes things very uncomfortable for us.

If we could shake up the higher education world in the state, say, through a merger with OH&SU, that would make a huge difference in people's regard of us politically and otherwise. People in the state don't hate OH&SU and if it merged with PSU, it could well be regarded as a hybrid no longer worthy of the kind of hatred once reserved for unprotected PSU. Unprotected like an orphan.

This is one stupid legacy PSU has got to overcome: The stupidity of the Oregonian newspaper bias, its negative light holding up PSU's progress. They will continue it out of a sense of perverse glee overriding their sense of public service. They are a most perverse lot but they have no one to hold them in check. PSU would do well to publicize their antics through other newspapers across the land to expose them. Their perverse behavior is what happens in relatively isolated conditions such as we have here. Curses be to their foul sense of glee over their abuse to a public university and its stakeholders.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » September 21st, 2017, 7:37 am

BroadwayVik says: "Division II for a university of nearly 30,000? Ridiculous. Utterly so.

No, Broadway not all: San Francisco State, 30,000; Cal State LA, 28,000; UC San Diego, 36,000; Simon Fraser, 36,000 are all D2 schools right here on the Left Coast. I think we would be in good company.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by BroadwayVik » September 22nd, 2017, 1:04 am

What is it they say down South: "Well, shut my mouth!" Those statistics are an eye-opener. When you're right, you're right. You're absolutely right about the numbers. Maybe we ought to take that group and use those members to form a league of our own. What exactly is it holding up our Division I progress anyway?

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Big West Denies UCSD Division-I Membership
By Rosina Garcia - April 6, 2017

This article has been updated to include a statement from Big West Commissioner Dennis Farrell.

The Big West Athletics Conference denied membership to UC San Diego, Vice Chancellor-Student Affairs Juan Gonzalez and Intercollegiate Athletics Director Earl Edwards said in an email announcement. Gonzalez and Edwards emphasized their commitment to the students and faculty’s desire to move to Division-I.

“As a University, we will continue dialogue to better understand and address the current issues surrounding UC San Diego’s potential membership in the Big West Conference,” they said in the announcement.

For UC San Diego to secure Division-I membership, seven of the nine schools in the conference needed to vote “yes,” which did not happen. The schools, which include four UC schools, four Cal State schools and University of Hawaii at Manoa, the most recent member, were represented by their respective chancellors or presidents. In May 2016, 6,137 out of the 8,828 voting students indicated that they wanted the university to move to Division-I. In the 2016 Fall Quarter, 736 faculty members casted a vote, with 457 of them voting in favor of the move. If UCSD is not accepted to a conference by 2018, the student vote will be invalid, and the process will have to start over.

“The Big West Board of Directors (composed of the conference member institutions’ presidents and chancellors) have decided not to pursue membership expansion at this time,” Big West Conference Commissioner Dennis Farrell told the UCSD Guardian. “The Board is comfortable with the current alignment of membership and this decision should not reflect negatively in any way UC San Diego’s qualifications or Division-I potential.”

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » September 22nd, 2017, 8:08 am

BroadwayVik asks: "What exactly is it holding up our Division I progress anyway?"

Well Broadway, I really do believe it is a complete lack of interest in Viking athletics. Last year we had the worst attendance figures in the Big Sky for football and men's basketball. Portland State had an average men's basketball attendance of 538. Nation-wide, in all of D1 basketball, only 5 schools had lower average attendance. Of the 7 schools in the D2 Great Northwest Athletic Conference 4 exceeded PSU's average attendance. Three schools in the D3 Northwest Conference also exceeded PSU's average attendance.

Neither the good folks of the Portland Metro Area nor PSU students are at all interested in PSU athletics. Those that are interested in athletics are interested OSU and UO, the Trailblazers, Winterhawks, and Pilots. The Pilots average attendance for men's basketball was almost 5 times that of the Vikings and Winterhawks junior hockey about 10 times.

Why is this the case you might ask? I think it is the result of uninspired coaching and a long history of very poor performance played out in facilities that offer an awful game-day experience. It will be nice to have a new basketball facility, but I would expect only marginal improvement in attendance. For football we should probably play at a high school facility. Franklin's stadium would be a good choice.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Viktorious » September 22nd, 2017, 11:07 am

I think we should have invested in the new Mountainside High School football stadium as it was being built in the last couple years. It's a little out of the city but could have built ample parking spaces and suites & boxes to our liking.

Aerial view of the new high school: https://www.facebook.com/mountainsidehs ... 726389776/

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » September 22nd, 2017, 12:08 pm

Only problem is that not everyone has a car. Especially kids. Wherever we play it should be on a Tri-Met line.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Pounder » September 25th, 2017, 4:32 pm

Viktorious wrote:
September 22nd, 2017, 11:07 am
I think we should have invested in the new Mountainside High School football stadium as it was being built in the last couple years. It's a little out of the city but could have built ample parking spaces and suites & boxes to our liking.

Aerial view of the new high school: https://www.facebook.com/mountainsidehs ... 726389776/
Traffic on Scholls Ferry is bad enough.

For Frack's sake, Lincoln HS is trying to move heaven and earth to be next on the PPS renovation list (Franklin and Roosevelt are already done, Grant currently occupies the old Marshall building). There's your chance for a partnership.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » September 25th, 2017, 5:43 pm

Lincoln would be fantastic! So close to PSU. Just across the street from Providence Park. Essentially right downtown. Another great opportunity for a partnership.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Pounder » September 25th, 2017, 10:11 pm

Alan wrote:
September 21st, 2017, 7:37 am
BroadwayVik says: "Division II for a university of nearly 30,000? Ridiculous. Utterly so.

No, Broadway not all: San Francisco State, 30,000; Cal State LA, 28,000; UC San Diego, 36,000; Simon Fraser, 36,000 are all D2 schools right here on the Left Coast. I think we would be in good company.
Only Simon Fraser has football, and I think the current Lincoln HS seats more people than that Terry Fox Field. Also, their last two games are memorable for all the wrong reasons. BTW, Canada, quite understandably, has a lot of Terry Fox Fields.

The Swamp at SF State makes old Stott look like Chiles Center.

This may look like a fit, but it'll never happen at D-1. UC San Diego may get another chance to reach the Big West someday (and their arena seats more, in a less than desirable alignment), but there's absolutely nothing in it for the state schools. Stanford and Cal barely see the media light of day in the Bay Area.

I'm convinced Portland State is in the Big Sky because of the football program. I absolutely believe the Big West wants absolutely nothing to do with Portland State, even after Viking Pavilion opens. The Big West is teeming with suburban and smaller city schools, which generally means having the land to have your own facilities for all sports. The fit is nowhere near as obvious as advertised around here.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » September 26th, 2017, 7:28 am

Pounder wrote:
September 25th, 2017, 10:11 pm
Alan wrote:
September 21st, 2017, 7:37 am
BroadwayVik says: "Division II for a university of nearly 30,000? Ridiculous. Utterly so.

No, Broadway not all: San Francisco State, 30,000; Cal State LA, 28,000; UC San Diego, 36,000; Simon Fraser, 36,000 are all D2 schools right here on the Left Coast. I think we would be in good company.
Only Simon Fraser has football, and I think the current Lincoln HS seats more people than that Terry Fox Field. Also, their last two games are memorable for all the wrong reasons. BTW, Canada, quite understandably, has a lot of Terry Fox Fields.

The Swamp at SF State makes old Stott look like Chiles Center.

This may look like a fit, but it'll never happen at D-1. UC San Diego may get another chance to reach the Big West someday (and their arena seats more, in a less than desirable alignment), but there's absolutely nothing in it for the state schools. Stanford and Cal barely see the media light of day in the Bay Area.

I'm convinced Portland State is in the Big Sky because of the football program. I absolutely believe the Big West wants absolutely nothing to do with Portland State, even after Viking Pavilion opens. The Big West is teeming with suburban and smaller city schools, which generally means having the land to have your own facilities for all sports. The fit is nowhere near as obvious as advertised around here.
I was suggesting neither a new conference with Simon Fraser and the D2 California schools nor the Big West. I was merely responding to Broadway's statement. By "good company" I meant we would be another Pacific coast D2 school of around 30,000. I'd rather have our athletic programs in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference than the in Big Sky and I believe our D1 attendance figures in football and men's basketball give some credence to that argument.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by bigskyconf » September 26th, 2017, 11:40 am

Alan wrote:
September 26th, 2017, 7:28 am
Pounder wrote:
September 25th, 2017, 10:11 pm
Alan wrote:
September 21st, 2017, 7:37 am
BroadwayVik says: "Division II for a university of nearly 30,000? Ridiculous. Utterly so.

No, Broadway not all: San Francisco State, 30,000; Cal State LA, 28,000; UC San Diego, 36,000; Simon Fraser, 36,000 are all D2 schools right here on the Left Coast. I think we would be in good company.
Only Simon Fraser has football, and I think the current Lincoln HS seats more people than that Terry Fox Field. Also, their last two games are memorable for all the wrong reasons. BTW, Canada, quite understandably, has a lot of Terry Fox Fields.

The Swamp at SF State makes old Stott look like Chiles Center.

This may look like a fit, but it'll never happen at D-1. UC San Diego may get another chance to reach the Big West someday (and their arena seats more, in a less than desirable alignment), but there's absolutely nothing in it for the state schools. Stanford and Cal barely see the media light of day in the Bay Area.

I'm convinced Portland State is in the Big Sky because of the football program. I absolutely believe the Big West wants absolutely nothing to do with Portland State, even after Viking Pavilion opens. The Big West is teeming with suburban and smaller city schools, which generally means having the land to have your own facilities for all sports. The fit is nowhere near as obvious as advertised around here.
I was suggesting neither a new conference with Simon Fraser and the D2 California schools nor the Big West. I was merely responding to Broadway's statement. By "good company" I meant we would be another Pacific coast D2 school of around 30,000. I'd rather have our athletic programs in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference than the in Big Sky and I believe our D1 attendance figures in football and men's basketball give some credence to that argument.
The rumblings I hear about SF State and the fact that UC-San Diego was turned down (again) to enter the Big West makes me think we already have something that all those schools want...Full DI membership.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Pounder » September 26th, 2017, 12:54 pm

Alan wrote:
September 26th, 2017, 7:28 am
I was suggesting neither a new conference with Simon Fraser and the D2 California schools nor the Big West. I was merely responding to Broadway's statement. By "good company" I meant we would be another Pacific coast D2 school of around 30,000. I'd rather have our athletic programs in the Great Northwest Athletic Conference than the in Big Sky and I believe our D1 attendance figures in football and men's basketball give some credence to that argument.
I know what you were saying, but we could all hear Broadway thinking D-1 for the lot of 'em.

You should check the "Other" board for where I took a shot at what it might take to stay D-1... or even keep Portland State a reasonable institution in a town where prices are starting to go a bit too far north.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am

A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by bigskyconf » October 9th, 2017, 1:51 pm

Alan wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am
A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/
I can make it from Hillsboro to Boise in 6 hours, provided there is no snow or ice at the Meacham Hill (and no traffic through Portland). :lol:

Really, a good read, in that it doesn't really matter where the tournament is held if people won't show up. Also shocking to see that Weber drew more fans than Montana and Montana State combined. Maybe SLC would be the best place for the tournament. Once UND leaves, it is pretty much the center of the conference and the conference offices are located there.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by DavidKeys » October 9th, 2017, 2:15 pm

OOOOOH! SLC. Now THERE'S a city known to party!

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Pounder » October 10th, 2017, 11:43 am

Alan wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am
A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/
Do you realize how easy it is to get a ticket for the PAC-12 tournament? Not to mention virtually every conference except the ACC?

The reality is the NCAA needs to have several serious conversations right now. Thing is, in regards to basketball, they’ve had this conversation in the last 20 years and it’s led, er, not very far.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Alan » October 11th, 2017, 7:13 am

Pounder wrote:
October 10th, 2017, 11:43 am
Alan wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am
A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/
Do you realize how easy it is to get a ticket for the PAC-12 tournament? Not to mention virtually every conference except the ACC?

The reality is the NCAA needs to have several serious conversations right now. Thing is, in regards to basketball, they’ve had this conversation in the last 20 years and it’s led, er, not very far.
The Big Sky basketball tournaments should be held either at the schools that won the regular season, or maybe better, those having the greatest regular season average attendance. In other words take the tournament to the fans rather than the fans to the tournament.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by Pounder » October 11th, 2017, 10:40 am

Alan wrote:
October 11th, 2017, 7:13 am
Pounder wrote:
October 10th, 2017, 11:43 am
Alan wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am
A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/
Do you realize how easy it is to get a ticket for the PAC-12 tournament? Not to mention virtually every conference except the ACC?

The reality is the NCAA needs to have several serious conversations right now. Thing is, in regards to basketball, they’ve had this conversation in the last 20 years and it’s led, er, not very far.
The Big Sky basketball tournaments should be held either at the schools that won the regular season, or maybe better, those having the greatest regular season average attendance. In other words take the tournament to the fans rather than the fans to the tournament.
Travel costs got to be too much. It's a format that's practical in some of the northeastern conferences that would look at Portland to, say, Boise as overly long. Going to Montana or Pocatello on short notice is not for the faint of heart.

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Re: Big Sky chooses new basketball tournament location

Post by bigskyconf » October 11th, 2017, 6:37 pm

Pounder wrote:
October 11th, 2017, 10:40 am
Alan wrote:
October 11th, 2017, 7:13 am
Pounder wrote:
October 10th, 2017, 11:43 am
Alan wrote:
October 8th, 2017, 7:49 am
A take on the Big Sky tournament location and Big Sky Basketball in general: http://www.thespectrum.com/story/sports ... 679594001/
Do you realize how easy it is to get a ticket for the PAC-12 tournament? Not to mention virtually every conference except the ACC?

The reality is the NCAA needs to have several serious conversations right now. Thing is, in regards to basketball, they’ve had this conversation in the last 20 years and it’s led, er, not very far.
The Big Sky basketball tournaments should be held either at the schools that won the regular season, or maybe better, those having the greatest regular season average attendance. In other words take the tournament to the fans rather than the fans to the tournament.
Travel costs got to be too much. It's a format that's practical in some of the northeastern conferences that would look at Portland to, say, Boise as overly long. Going to Montana or Pocatello on short notice is not for the faint of heart.
That is true. Not knowing where the tournament will be held was one factor in determining a set venue. Also, when the tournament was held at the regular season champion, the champion more often than not would get beat in the tournament and not even make it to the championship game. Then the crowd would be really sparse for the game.

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