UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Get the skinny on Hornet Football and the FCS
Post Reply
User avatar
Kadeezy
Posts: 2611
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:00 am

UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by Kadeezy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:01 am

Stay away from Troy Taylor! Actually this move does affect the Hornets because we travel to UW week two next season. They're in disarray, hopefully we're back with a ton of returners and can make it a game!

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/sacramento-state

BTW - I've got us pegged at 7-4 next season with two FBS losses, 7-2 against FCS competition.
Image

User avatar
GreenArmySwarm
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:39 am

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by GreenArmySwarm » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:18 am

Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:01 am
Stay away from Troy Taylor! Actually this move does affect the Hornets because we travel to UW week two next season. They're in disarray, hopefully we're back with a ton of returners and can make it a game!

https://fbschedules.com/ncaa-2020/team/sacramento-state

BTW - I've got us pegged at 7-4 next season with two FBS losses, 7-2 against FCS competition.
I'm honestly really shocked by this. Peterson has been an absolute beast at UW. He pretty much stole all of the PAC12 thunder the past few years from Stanford and Oregon. I don't think it was a firing. He stepped down for sure cuz he will still be part of the Ath. Dep as an adviser. Either way, it'll most likely be a loss for Hornets next year because UW is packed with 5-star recruits and they're simply just better. But maybe we'll have a shot at least? lol

Don't think UW will go after Troy Taylor. That is such a desirable place to coach so they'll have their pick of the litter. Actually, I'll even say that the opening is the best/most desired opening in all of College FB. Coaches will line-up for that interview.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:22 pm

Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:01 am
Stay away from Troy Taylor!

GreenArmySwarm wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:18 am
Don't think UW will go after Troy Taylor. That is such a desirable place to coach so they'll have their pick of the litter. Actually, I'll even say that the opening is the best/most desired opening in all of College FB. Coaches will line-up for that interview.
Again I say, SEVEN YEAR CONTRACT! With 6 years still to go!

These FBS programs can look but not touch unless Sac State says so. And why would they??

The only exception I can think of is a clause in the contract. But given that they came up with a long 7-year deal, I highly doubt Nelsen/Orr gave him an option for an early out to go to an FBS program. Because that would be counterproductive to having success.

BSCfan
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:53 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BSCfan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:15 pm

Word is, he doesn't enjoy the recruiting part of being a coach and he's burned out on it. There's also scuttlebutt that the move was made to keep Jimmy Lake on the staff so he doesn't bolt for a head coaching job elsewhere. Coach Lake is a REALLY good recruiter (sort of like our Coach Kee) and enjoys that part of the gig!

User avatar
Kadeezy
Posts: 2611
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:00 am

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by Kadeezy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:19 pm

BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:22 pm
Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:01 am
Stay away from Troy Taylor!

GreenArmySwarm wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:18 am
Don't think UW will go after Troy Taylor. That is such a desirable place to coach so they'll have their pick of the litter. Actually, I'll even say that the opening is the best/most desired opening in all of College FB. Coaches will line-up for that interview.
Again I say, SEVEN YEAR CONTRACT! With 6 years still to go!

These FBS programs can look but not touch unless Sac State says so. And why would they??

The only exception I can think of is a clause in the contract. But given that they came up with a long 7-year deal, I highly doubt Nelsen/Orr gave him an option for an early out to go to an FBS program. Because that would be counterproductive to having success.
We don’t know the specifics, but every college football contract, regardless of the published duration, is in essence year to year.

Taylor isn’t obligated to indentured servitude at 259k/year if his services are suddenly worth $1.2M per year. He can walk anytime he wants, and whatever the contract stipulates for such an action is what will happen (nothing, buyout of the duration of the term, etc.).
Image

User avatar
GreenArmySwarm
Posts: 223
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:39 am

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by GreenArmySwarm » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:02 pm

Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:19 pm
BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:22 pm
Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:01 am
Stay away from Troy Taylor!

GreenArmySwarm wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:18 am
Don't think UW will go after Troy Taylor. That is such a desirable place to coach so they'll have their pick of the litter. Actually, I'll even say that the opening is the best/most desired opening in all of College FB. Coaches will line-up for that interview.
Again I say, SEVEN YEAR CONTRACT! With 6 years still to go!

These FBS programs can look but not touch unless Sac State says so. And why would they??

The only exception I can think of is a clause in the contract. But given that they came up with a long 7-year deal, I highly doubt Nelsen/Orr gave him an option for an early out to go to an FBS program. Because that would be counterproductive to having success.
We don’t know the specifics, but every college football contract, regardless of the published duration, is in essence year to year.

Taylor isn’t obligated to indentured servitude at 259k/year if his services are suddenly worth $1.2M per year. He can walk anytime he wants, and whatever the contract stipulates for such an action is what will happen (nothing, buyout of the duration of the term, etc.).
Kadeezy hits the nail on the head here. Every contract is "at-will". No one by law can force you to coach a team if you don't want to. Even if Taylor signs a contract for 50 years, he can leave anytime he wants. In most cases, there are buy-out causes. If the Hornets get lucky, when this time comes, the program can get like 500k for being the first school that gave Taylor a shot as HC from whatever P5 school that comes around thru they buy-out...the key here is P5, cuz Taylor is not leaving SAC for a low G5 program.

This UW opening isn't it if anyone is freakin out.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:03 pm

Kadeezy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:19 pm
Stay don’t know the specifics, but every college football contract, regardless of the published duration, is in essence year to year.

Taylor isn’t obligated to indentured servitude at 259k/year if his services are suddenly worth $1.2M per year. He can walk anytime he wants, and whatever the contract stipulates for such an action is what will happen (nothing, buyout of the duration of the term, etc.).
Love ya Kadeey, but none of what you say here is true.

The point of a contract is that both parties are bound to it sans events breeching the contract e.g., committing a felony.

If Sac State fires TT, they still have to pay his contract. If TT quits or retires, he forfeits the money and his right to go elsewhere for the duration of the contract w/o expressed permission from his former employer.

Otherwise players and coaches would leave all the time. But they can’t.

It’s not year to year. In this case it’s a 7 year contract. And by signing it, TT most certainly is obligated to indentured servitude until the contract expires or he’s fired or the parties mutually agree to part ways.

Suddenly becoming more valuable plays no part. That’s the risk they take in signing a long term contract.

I’m not sure why you believe any different.
Last edited by BuckeyeHornetFan on Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by SDHornet » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:06 pm

Another "Taylor will be hired away" conspiracy thread? :roll:

If Taylor gets an offer he likes and he wants to leave, he's gone. There is nothing more to it than that. Any P5 program that wants him bad enough will not have a problem buying out his contract. Just keep in mind that he took a big pay cut to come here, so it's about more than just the money for Taylor (for now at least). Everyone relax and just enjoy the ride.
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pm

SDHornet wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:06 pm
Another "Taylor will be hired away" conspiracy thread? :roll:

If Taylor gets an offer he likes and he wants to leave, he's gone. There is nothing more to it than that. Any P5 program that wants him bad enough will not have a problem buying out his contract. Just keep in mind that he took a big pay cut to come here, so it's about more than just the money for Taylor (for now at least). Everyone relax and just enjoy the ride.

Totally agree with your last two sentences.

But as for the rest, he’s not gone. The Hornets hold the cards. It’s the freaking point of a contract. He’s under their control until his contract expires or they fire him or they mutually decide to part ways.

Could a P5 team ask to buy out his contract? Yes. But the Hornets don’t have to agree to it!

For example, when Urban Meyer retired and now Chris Petersen, if they did so with time remaining on their contract, they are still under control of their previous employers until said contract expires. They could not go coach another team until that contract expires or that employer agrees to allow them too.

Seriously, I don’t understand what some of you guys believe the point of a contract is if the years don’t matter. Why hire a guy to 7 year deal if either party can cancel or change their mind at any time and go elsewhere? Just call it an indefinite contract until one party changes their mind! It don’t work like that.

A franchise/university can fire a coach, but they are still obligated to pay the coach whatever guaranteed money remained for how many years remained — because they signed a contract. They can’t just decide after year one that it’s not working out or they want to hire someone else and stop paying the guy.

They can fire him, but technically he still remains a paid employee even though they no longer ask him to show up to work for it.

And the contract works the other way too. A coach can’t sign a multi year contract then decide after season one that a better opportunity awaits and just leave. He needs permission from his current employer.

Assistant coaches are slightly different. They can leave prior to the contract expiration if it involves a promotion. It’s generally written into the contract that way. But a HC can’t make a lateral move to another program while under contract. Neither can an assistant. It has to be a promotion.

And a more prominent, highly funded program can’t just steal away a HC by forcibly buying out a contract. It just doesn’t work that way.

Now, if UW came knocking on the door and TT wanted to go there, could Sac State and both UW and TT negotiate and come to an agreement? Certainly. But it can’t be done w/o Sac State’s willingness to do so.

The only other option is for TT to try to force their hand by intentionally trying to get fired for performance reasons. But does TT seem like the type? Not to me.

So, again, I don’t believe there’s any valid reason to believe TT won’t be coaching the Hornets unless such time comes during the next few season where they don’t want him anymore.

Circling back to SD’s point, yes, let’s all relax and enjoy the ride!

HornetHope
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:41 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by HornetHope » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:02 pm

SDHornet wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:06 pm
Another "Taylor will be hired away" conspiracy thread? :roll:

If Taylor gets an offer he likes and he wants to leave, he's gone. There is nothing more to it than that. Any P5 program that wants him bad enough will not have a problem buying out his contract. Just keep in mind that he took a big pay cut to come here, so it's about more than just the money for Taylor (for now at least). Everyone relax and just enjoy the ride.
True. In California the courts have struck down contracts tying people to jobs, those lawsuits regularly get thrown out. The big buck jobs come with very long hours and Very high stress. Sometimes coaches taste that and decide they do not want the trouble that comes with it.
It's not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up.
Vince Lombardi

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by SDHornet » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:59 am

BHF, I disagree. No competent employer forces someone to work for them if they don’t want to. It creates a bad atmosphere and also word spreads and it’ll make it harder bringing on the next person. It would just be a bad look for this admin if they “force” someone to stay on if they want out.

That’s the whole point of a buyout clause, which I’m assuming Taylor’s contract has. The admin will use that buyout money to hire a consultant to do another nationwide search to find his replacement…unless they promote someone from the staff then that buyout money will be used to hire on another competent and D1 experienced staff.
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

BSCfan
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:53 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BSCfan » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:35 am

UW gave Jimmy Lake a nice 5-year contract, doubt they'll be trying to poach Coach Taylor anytime soon. Speculation is they locked him up to keep USC from coming to get him

Phantom Hornet
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:29 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by Phantom Hornet » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:41 pm

Hate to disagree with you Buckeye, but if you keep a head coach from moving on to a more lucrative position, you'll never hire another decent coach again. Legally you are technically correct, but in the real world of college athletics you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Not only are you ruining your current relationship with a coach who may someday want to come back, you'd poison the well with other potential candidates.

These long term deals are really one-sided, but that's the nature of the beast. These long-term contracts are really to show that the university is committed and won't make rash decisions, allowing the coaching staff to recruit without rumors or anything hanging over them. They really aren't to keep people from moving on to better jobs, nor should they be, IMHO.

Sac State is never going to be a final destination for talented football coaches.What it can be is a pipeline and great place for up and coming coaches who want to have success and springboard to larger programs. I would enjoy that, to be honest.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:11 am

Phantom Hornet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:41 pm
Hate to disagree with you Buckeye, but if you keep a head coach from moving on to a more lucrative position, you'll never hire another decent coach again. Legally you are technically correct, but in the real world of college athletics you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Not only are you ruining your current relationship with a coach who may someday want to come back, you'd poison the well with other potential candidates.

These long term deals are really one-sided, but that's the nature of the beast. These long-term contracts are really to show that the university is committed and won't make rash decisions, allowing the coaching staff to recruit without rumors or anything hanging over them. They really aren't to keep people from moving on to better jobs, nor should they be, IMHO.

Sac State is never going to be a final destination for talented football coaches.What it can be is a pipeline and great place for up and coming coaches who want to have success and springboard to larger programs. I would enjoy that, to be honest.
You make a very solid point. And I don’t necessarily disagree. But, you also acknowledged that Sac State has to be complicit for any move to occur. Which was the crux of my point all along. That’s all.

Same even somewhat goes for student-athletes once they’ve signed (even though they aren’t paid employees), although the newer transfer portal rules has changed things a bit in that regard. But typically and historically once a student-athlete signs a LOI, they can’t up and leave to anywhere they want. In fact, many programs won’t release a player to sign with a conference rival.

Same is true of coaches. If the program agrees to allow them to move on while still under contract, it typically won’t be to a rival. That type of move is routinely blocked. Optics be damned.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: UW Fires Peterson (Steps Down)

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:21 am

SDHornet wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:59 am
BHF, I disagree. No competent employer forces someone to work for them if they don’t want to. It creates a bad atmosphere and also word spreads and it’ll make it harder bringing on the next person. It would just be a bad look for this admin if they “force” someone to stay on if they want out.

That’s the whole point of a buyout clause, which I’m assuming Taylor’s contract has. The admin will use that buyout money to hire a consultant to do another nationwide search to find his replacement…unless they promote someone from the staff then that buyout money will be used to hire on another competent and D1 experienced staff.
It doesn’t seem like we are actually disagreeing at all. Both you and Phantom acknowledged the reality that the program can enforce the contract and keep them on. The only thing you’re contesting is whether they’d actually do that. Which is reasonable and fair. I get that.

And I’m not saying they would. I’m just saying that it isn’t as easy as some made it out to be. We don’t know what kind of agreement they made. Perhaps the expectation was that TT would give them 2-3 seasons to build a foundation then they’d be complicit in letting him walk for a better opportunity. And if he changed direction after 1 season, perhaps they’d try to hold him to it.

Or perhaps you guys are 100% correct in that they’d let him walk no matter what. It might even be in the contract that way.

Regardless, we’re lucky to have him now and let’s all hope he’s in it with us for the long haul. I actually believe that to be possible given the cut in pay he took and the fact that he’s home, coaching with friends he really likes and gets along with and is already experiencing success.

We shall see.

Post Reply