Be patient, Sac State is nearly a lock for WAC

[Siouxfan]

Seems that some of you are growing impatient, but it is important for Benson and all the WAC players to know who is leaving before who gets added.

With the new NCAA rules that will drop continuity requirements, the WAC will still exist. What might be threatened is it's FBS status, but that all depends on who joins.

If the WAC's continuity was threatened, it would be a fatal mistake to even consider the WAC. But it does have a future, and San Jose St and Idaho are the key players in what it will look like. Without question, San Jose St will come calling for Sac St.

Hawaii is considering independence, Utah St may go to MWC, La Tech and NMSU to Sunbelt or CUSA. Consider the implications if any or all of Hawaii, Utah State, NMSU, or La Tech leaving:

If La Tech is gone, UTSA and Texas State aren't nearly as important.
If La Tech and NMSU are both gone, Texas schools don't make sense at all except for survival.
If BYU and Utah St are gone, they might look at Weber St to fill the Utah hole.
If Hawaii stays, it won't want Montana and Montana St, and it wouldn't be thrilled with Texas schools either.

San Jose St (and Hawaii) will want Cal Poly, Sac St, and UCDavis. The question is, would UCDavis and/or Cal Poly accept with the budgets they've been facing, knowing that they need to add 40 scholarships, or drop other sports that total 40 scholarships, and commit to expanding their stadiums within three years? Maybe donors would step up in that time.

San Jose St and Idaho would both want Portland St. The question is if Portland St can afford it. The MLS stadium will be ready, so this is probably PSU's real chance.

Idaho will desperately want Montana as a local rival. For political reasons, Montana could go if Montana State is in too. San Jose might not want Montana St, but if both Idaho and San Jose get three "invitees", Montana State would be in.

The WAC also has to think about some other media markets: Denver and Seattle would make great additions as non-football members.

So if the WAC is down to two, Sac State would actually get a league much more to it's liking:

San Jose St
Sac St
Cal Poly
UCDavis
Portland St
Seattle
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
Denver

The questions remain about UCDavis and Cal Poly: would they commit to a league that isn't strong in Big West sports? Would they commit to upgrade football and their stadiums in budget cutting times?

The WAC could probably still keep it's berth in the Humanitarian Bowl in Boise (or whatever it is called) and maybe San Jose could sponsor another one.

One of the key issues is that none of those schools could easily schedule 5 home FBS games. This is where my bias comes through. Invite the NDak schools and split the conference into divisions for non-football sports so as to alleviate travel. That way, five FBS home games are guaranteed every other season, and you don't have to sell your soul for a 2 for 1 to gain the extra home game. Here's my fantasy:

WAC Pacific
San Jose St
Sac St
Cal Poly
UCD
Portland St
Seattle

WAC Mountain
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
Denver
UND
NDSU

Travel is minimized, the league is very balanced competitively and financially, has a good mix of media markets and college towns, almost all the schools have rabid alumni (you and PSU need to work on Bball), good rivalries (obviously the California rivalries, Montana hates Idaho more than Montana St, UND and Denver hate each other, Montana despises ND).

The Texas schools would clearly be good additions, but UTSA and Texas State would have no interest in staying around long-term. Why add schools that just add to uncertainty and are basically ladder climbers? Add schools that want long-term relationships and improve the community. The schools listed above would be absolutely tickled to be in the divisions there in (once San Jose St and Idaho get back up after the disappointments with the WAC breakup).

Anyway, good luck to you and I believe you are in. Just be patient.

 

[SDHornet]

Interesting take SF. But I think CP and “the farm extension” has shown they want no part of traveling their non-football sports outside of the state lines. I think both of those schools only want to half ass a move to FBS meaning they probably won’t leave the Big West and would try to look for a football only alternative (which I don’t think the WAC will accept). It would be nice if they both grew a pair and took the risk, but quite frankly I don’t see them doing it. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Absolutely no NDSU anything. Would rather have SDSU if they gotta get the Daks.

 

[superhornet]

The problem with that, GCM, is that there have to be travel partners out that far if a western league takes ANY of the UXDs/XDSUs. So if the WAC take SDSU, they would ALSO have to take USD or NDSU. The USD option is likely a nonstarter. In addition, as much as outside folk mentioned the NDSU/SDSU rivalry as being "huge," I think SF or someone similar once mentioned that that was an artificial thing started by outsiders. For NDSU, the more natural rivalry is UND, which makes more sense anyway.

So, while I, too would prefer to avoid taking any of the Dakotas out west, if NDSU goes, UND will likely go as well, not only as a travel partner but as a continuation of an already existing geographic rivalry. That fulfills the dual role people foresee for a Sac/UCFE WAC entry. Makes sense, though it does extend the travel. But if the league is split as SF has suggested, it COULD work.

 

[Siouxfan]

The problem with that, GCM, is that there have to be travel partners out that far if a western league takes ANY of the UXDs/XDSUs. So if the WAC take SDSU, they would ALSO have to take USD or NDSU. The USD option is likely a nonstarter. In addition, as much as outside folk mentioned the NDSU/SDSU rivalry as being "huge," I think SF or someone similar once mentioned that that was an artificial thing started by outsiders. For NDSU, the more natural rivalry is UND, which makes more sense anyway.

So, while I, too would prefer to avoid taking any of the Dakotas out west, if NDSU goes, UND will likely go as well, not only as a travel partner but as a continuation of an already existing geographic rivalry. That fulfills the dual role people foresee for a Sac/UCFE WAC entry. Makes sense, though it does extend the travel. But if the league is split as SF has suggested, it COULD work.

As I mentioned, I think the chance of UND/NDSU into the WAC is very remote, but it is what both schools had targeted for long-term. The WAC would never take just one, it would have to be two for travel partners in other sports. UND's budget is about the same as Sac State's and like $6 million more than SDSU - but much of that is hockey and hockey is a huge cash cow for us. USD doesn't even have half of UND's budget.

SDSU-NDSU "rivalry" is like best buddies tussling. NDSU fans just detest everything about UND and want to be important in something.

What's interesting is that Denver fans consider UND fans to be "hicks" (we hate each other in hockey as we are in the same league). What's really funny is that NDSU fans consider UND to be "uppity", turtle-neck and sweater wearing preppie types. Can you imagine how Denver fans would view NDSU fans? :shock: :lol:

Interesting take SF. But I think CP and “the farm extension” has shown they want no part of traveling their non-football sports outside of the state lines. I think both of those schools only want to half ass a move to FBS meaning they probably won’t leave the Big West and would try to look for a football only alternative (which I don’t think the WAC will accept). It would be nice if they both grew a pair and took the risk, but quite frankly I don’t see them doing it. I hope I am wrong.

It's possible that the WAC would accept affiliate FBS membership by UCD and Cal Poly. When the SUnbelt was struggling for membership, UL-Monroe, FAU, FIU, and Troy were all football-only members for a time. WKU, USA, ULAR, and Denver were all non-football members. That might be the model that the WAC pursues.

Since Sac St has both an FBS-ready stadium, is ready to go "all in", those are two major reasons that the WAC almost has to pick Sac St.

What the WAC will be is like a western FCS all-star league. The problem could end up being not enough schools want to be chosen. If UTSA and Texas State get in, they can start adding other Texas regional schools (Sam Houston St, Lamar, Central Arkansas, Stephen F Austin all want FBS sooner or later), and the WAC could end up as a Southwest League. That's not in long-term interest of most western FCS schools.

 

[HornetHope]

Seems that some of you are growing impatient, but it is important for Benson and all the WAC players to know who is leaving before who gets added.

With the new NCAA rules that will drop continuity requirements, the WAC will still exist. What might be threatened is it's FBS status, but that all depends on who joins.

If the WAC's continuity was threatened, it would be a fatal mistake to even consider the WAC. But it does have a future, and San Jose St and Idaho are the key players in what it will look like. Without question, San Jose St will come calling for Sac St.

Hawaii is considering independence, Utah St may go to MWC, La Tech and NMSU to Sunbelt or CUSA. Consider the implications if any or all of Hawaii, Utah State, NMSU, or La Tech leaving:

If La Tech is gone, UTSA and Texas State aren't nearly as important.
If La Tech and NMSU are both gone, Texas schools don't make sense at all except for survival.
If BYU and Utah St are gone, they might look at Weber St to fill the Utah hole.
If Hawaii stays, it won't want Montana and Montana St, and it wouldn't be thrilled with Texas schools either.

San Jose St (and Hawaii) will want Cal Poly, Sac St, and UCDavis. The question is, would UCDavis and/or Cal Poly accept with the budgets they've been facing, knowing that they need to add 40 scholarships, or drop other sports that total 40 scholarships, and commit to expanding their stadiums within three years? Maybe donors would step up in that time.

San Jose St and Idaho would both want Portland St. The question is if Portland St can afford it. The MLS stadium will be ready, so this is probably PSU's real chance.

Idaho will desperately want Montana as a local rival. For political reasons, Montana could go if Montana State is in too. San Jose might not want Montana St, but if both Idaho and San Jose get three "invitees", Montana State would be in.

The WAC also has to think about some other media markets: Denver and Seattle would make great additions as non-football members.

So if the WAC is down to two, Sac State would actually get a league much more to it's liking:

San Jose St
Sac St
Cal Poly
UCDavis
Portland St
Seattle
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
Denver

The questions remain about UCDavis and Cal Poly: would they commit to a league that isn't strong in Big West sports? Would they commit to upgrade football and their stadiums in budget cutting times?

The WAC could probably still keep it's berth in the Humanitarian Bowl in Boise (or whatever it is called) and maybe San Jose could sponsor another one.

One of the key issues is that none of those schools could easily schedule 5 home FBS games. This is where my bias comes through. Invite the NDak schools and split the conference into divisions for non-football sports so as to alleviate travel. That way, five FBS home games are guaranteed every other season, and you don't have to sell your soul for a 2 for 1 to gain the extra home game. Here's my fantasy:

WAC Pacific
San Jose St
Sac St
Cal Poly
UCD
Portland St
Seattle

WAC Mountain
Idaho
Montana
Montana St
Denver
UND
NDSU

Travel is minimized, the league is very balanced competitively and financially, has a good mix of media markets and college towns, almost all the schools have rabid alumni (you and PSU need to work on Bball), good rivalries (obviously the California rivalries, Montana hates Idaho more than Montana St, UND and Denver hate each other, Montana despises ND).

The Texas schools would clearly be good additions, but UTSA and Texas State would have no interest in staying around long-term. Why add schools that just add to uncertainty and are basically ladder climbers? Add schools that want long-term relationships and improve the community. The schools listed above would be absolutely tickled to be in the divisions there in (once San Jose St and Idaho get back up after the disappointments with the WAC breakup).

Anyway, good luck to you and I believe you are in. Just be patient.

SF, I agree that this could actually work. Besides, I could travel to the games and visit kinfolk.

I know Denver has a hockey team, I would like to see the WAC field a hockey league though. N CA actually has some decent jr. hockey, we could field a competitive team within about 3-4 yrs. Wishful thinking...

 

[Siouxfan]

SF, I agree that this could actually work. Besides, I could travel to the games and visit kinfolk.

I know Denver has a hockey team, I would like to see the WAC field a hockey league though. N CA actually has some decent jr. hockey, we could field a competitive team within about 3-4 yrs. Wishful thinking...

Your family from NoDak? It's been exporting people for 100 years. Finally there is some major money in the state as the economy is clicking on all cylinders and the state government is getting all kinds of oil revenue and dropping tax rates.

California has been developing a lot of hockey talent. Denver's roster has had a number of Californians. Even North Dakota has California talent. If California had one or two teams just with natives, the teams would be very competitive.

The problem is always travel, as Denver/Air Force/ColoradoCollege are the furthest west, unless you include the Alaska schools. Also the schools need a league and a building. Penn State is serious about getting serious about getting a team, and Syracuse is rumored, so it might happen some day.