Developing Bigs

[WSUfan4ever]

There has been a lot discussion about Randy not developing bigs but I am not sure I agree. I thought I would start a discussion on the subject. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

In my time following the program it seems to me that they have done a pretty decent job? The most obvious player I thought of was Tres. Seems like he came to the program as a relatively unknown commodity and developed into a very skilled player. He totally embarrassed BYU last year and showed very well against Arizona, not to mention the fact that he was pretty much double teamed all season. I view James as an exception because he has struggled with injuries so much over his 4 years.

Other than that I have a hard time remembering any other true bigs that Rahe has had, certainly no one who had been highly recruited. Seems like most of them were players out of position? On the current team I would tend to put Hill in this category as well. On many other teams he would be a 3, or perhaps a 4 but we are even talking about him as needing to play some 5.

 

[Midmajor??]

There has been a lot discussion about Randy not developing bigs but I am not sure I agree. I thought I would start a discussion on the subject. I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

In my time following the program it seems to me that they have done a pretty decent job? The most obvious player I thought of was Tres. Seems like he came to the program as a relatively unknown commodity and developed into a very skilled player. He totally embarrassed BYU last year and showed very well against Arizona, not to mention the fact that he was pretty much double teamed all season. I view James as an exception because he has struggled with injuries so much over his 4 years.

Other than that I have a hard time remembering any other true bigs that Rahe has had, certainly no one who had been highly recruited. Seems like most of them were players out of position? On the current team I would tend to put Hill in this category as well. On many other teams he would be a 3, or perhaps a 4 but we are even talking about him as needing to play some 5.

I think your last paragraph is the problem! Trying to make a 4 a 5! Turning a 3 into a 4! And shoot first PG that can't throw an entry pass. Old's said we wanted smaller bigs to handle faster/smaller teams. We didn't get that in USU Friday night!

 

[Da Bears]

It's not about Friday night! I knew we had a problem when I saw the post about Rahe calling the AD to see Joel's 3 point shooting!!!! I want my 5 with his butt in the paint focusing on his performance in the paint! My big shooting 3's should be a reward when we're up 30 with 2 minutes to go!

We need a big handling the paint like Tresnak...... Not spending valuable practice time working on his 3 pt shot! Whatever happened to post moves and passes?

 

[Itiger]

Do we even have a bigs coach? I'm sure he wouldn't be teaching them how to shoot 3's! I'd like to see us get back to the basics! I miss Tres knocking a guy on his butt if he waltzed through the middle line Collette! VP and Braxton are going to need development in the paint!

 

[SWWeatherCat]

:twocents:

I, too, don't want to see Joel out on the Arc. IMO Joel is a 4 on both ends of the floor but needs development in playing more as a traditional big, not stretch. He obviously needs room to work and shouldn't need to relearn how to pass out of a double/triple team. Rahe has to have a plan to not allow 2-3 defensive players to be able to key on Joel without paying for it.

I don't have a good read on Hill, he often seems lost and very timid. I see Hill as more of a 3 (as a true small forward, not wing or PF.) Defensively, I see him doing better in a zone since I'm not sure he's quick enough to guard smaller, quicker SF/wings. Many have gotten on Joel about the defensive performance in Logan but from my perspective Hill struggled as much as anyone in protecting the rim Friday, and seemed clueless on switches and help D. Last year we saw glimpses of Hill being a Weber State great but he does not look comfortable, aggressive, or confident to me.

James appears to be what he is. I'm not seeing what Olds did with him over the Summer. Offensively, I only think he'll produce at times when Joel/Hill are too much to a handle, Weber has a significant size advantage and when they are able to stretch the floor-- kinda rules out any zone, huh?. If anything is there with James, I think that ship has sailed as far as development goes.

I'm not convinced Joel/Hill can shine against good competition without a Tres-type quality C. It would be great if James could be this but it just doesn't look promising. The only (untested) C that looks to have the build and possibly the skill set to give Weber a Tres-like presence is apparently a RS.

There have been numerous comments/discussion about Rahe's staff not being able to develop bigs in the same quality way they are able to with the guards. With Tres, he came as a big, with the body and skill set of a big. Yes, he developed and became better over his career but he wasn't a SF/PF type player trying to be fit into more of a center role, that was already his role. I don't see the same thing with Hill/Joel and James either doesn't have enough talent, it's too late with the injuries to get him there, or there's some deficiencies with his development. Quite possibly it's a combination of things. It really look to me like Weber doesn't have the body type and skill set at C to allow a PF Joel and SF Hill to be as effective as they could, but then again Rahe runs more of a three guard, two forward offense most of the time anyway.

 

[Itiger]

When I first saw this thread I thought it was a joke. Now after seeing the start of our season, I see this as a real concern. We are just getting killed in the front court! I see that coach went back to the smaller lineup.

What are we doing to develop bigs for the future?

 

[catscratched]

I still think this thread is total BS. We went to a smaller lineup because James has trouble chasing 6'4'' guards around the three point line. Some of us read way too much into things.

All of our bigs have made significant progress every year they have been here. :twocents:

 

[Da Bears]

I still think this thread is total BS. We went to a smaller lineup because James has trouble chasing 6'4'' guards around the three point line. Some of us read way too much into things.

All of our bigs have made significant progress every year they have been here. :twocents:

I disagree! Look at our stats and tell me how we've improved in the paint! We are losing on almost every single stat in the front court! It was actually worse when Joel was in the middle! What was suppose to be a strength is now a weakness.

If you were accurate in your assumption.... Why wouldn't we want that same 6'4" guard covering Joel?

 

[WeberSki]

I still think this thread is total BS. We went to a smaller lineup because James has trouble chasing 6'4'' guards around the three point line. Some of us read way too much into things.

All of our bigs have made significant progress every year they have been here. :twocents:

I disagree! Look at our stats and tell me how we've improved in the paint! We are losing on almost every single stat in the front court! It was actually worse when Joel was in the middle! What was suppose to be a strength is now a weakness.

If you were accurate in your assumption.... Why wouldn't we want that same 6'4" guard covering Joel?

Come in Mycats. Development, & having the horses are 2 very different things. Hajek is either severely limited due to injuries, or a complete recruiting miss. Looking at Tresnak over 4 years will tell you that. I agree this thread is garbage.

 

[catscratched]

As far as development goes, Hajek is much better than when he came into the program, same for Bolomboy, and Hill. The other thing that I am seeing now is how much Braxton is improving. I'm going to say it right now, if he keeps improving at the rate he has since summer, He will be a starter next year and a major contributor. That is a long, long ways from where he started last summer.

I think that our coaches are doing a great job with the post players. :nod:

 

[Da Bears]

I still think this thread is total BS. We went to a smaller lineup because James has trouble chasing 6'4'' guards around the three point line. Some of us read way too much into things.

All of our bigs have made significant progress every year they have been here. :twocents:

I disagree! Look at our stats and tell me how we've improved in the paint! We are losing on almost every single stat in the front court! It was actually worse when Joel was in the middle! What was suppose to be a strength is now a weakness.

If you were accurate in your assumption.... Why wouldn't we want that same 6'4" guard covering Joel?

Come in Mycats. Development, & having the horses are 2 very different things. Hajek is either severely limited due to injuries, or a complete recruiting miss. Looking at Tresnak over 4 years will tell you that. I agree this thread is garbage.

Weber ski and Catscratched..... Respect your opinions, but I just watched us get abused in the paint again. Our bigs are not showing up against D1 competition. What's suppose to be our strength has been a glaring weakness. Between Hill, Coston and Hajek it's almost like we're just happy to be on the floor. Look at their rebounds tonight? Joel has absolutely no help and VanPelt can't get any minutes. We got outscored in the paint by 20 points and out rebounded by 14. How is this going to improve?

 

[WSUfan4ever]

I still think this thread is total BS. We went to a smaller lineup because James has trouble chasing 6'4'' guards around the three point line. Some of us read way too much into things.

All of our bigs have made significant progress every year they have been here. :twocents:

I disagree! Look at our stats and tell me how we've improved in the paint! We are losing on almost every single stat in the front court! It was actually worse when Joel was in the middle! What was suppose to be a strength is now a weakness.

If you were accurate in your assumption.... Why wouldn't we want that same 6'4" guard covering Joel?

Come in Mycats. Development, & having the horses are 2 very different things. Hajek is either severely limited due to injuries, or a complete recruiting miss. Looking at Tresnak over 4 years will tell you that. I agree this thread is garbage.

Weber ski and Catscratched..... Respect your opinions, but I just watched us get abused in the paint again. Our bigs are not showing up against D1 competition. What's suppose to be our strength has been a glaring weakness. Between Hill, Coston and Hajek it's almost like we're just happy to be on the floor. Look at their rebounds tonight? Joel has absolutely no help and VanPelt can't get any minutes. We got outscored in the paint by 20 points and out rebounded by 14. How is this going to improve?

Richardson should be playing before Golden all game long. Coston is a role player at best. What are the coaches seeing that I am not?

I might be the only one thinking this way but Van Pelt could be helping this team out, especially on the glass and defense. He did not look good in the last game, but he has had no chance at all this year. I heard from Mook that he is playing on the scout team mostly during practice. The coaches are not working with him to the degree that they should, which might mean he will not be with the program next year. I personally think this is a great waste of a tall player who has some skill, albeit raw.