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Effort and heart.

bengalcub

bengalcub

Active member
Ultimately, the success and failures of this team will fall on Coach O'Brien. I am not here to debate the fact that something is wrong.

With that said, at some point the heart and determination of the players on the court has to be questioned.

I don't always agree with the offensive philosophy, but I can live with it. What I find most discouraging is the lack of effort and focus that this team has exhibited on the defensive side of the ball. In my opinion defense is about desire and effort.

These kids are not playing scared and they haven't had their heart torn out of them by an over abrasive coach. Forget about substitution patterns and kids being afraid to be yanked for making a mistake--that simply has not happened this season. What we have not seen on a consistent basis is a group of five young men giving the type of effort night in and night out to be successful at this level.

So, if you want to put all the blame HC, that is your right. However, it has been obvious to me that when this team plays hard--they can or could have beat any team in the BSC.

It simply is not all coaching.
 
Lets open this discussion then. I still believe that some players are scared to death to make a mistake and their focus gets altered? I will say there has been some selfish ball played this year from a few players. Something is just not right?

Is it talent? The coach's are suppose to put good talent on the floor. Do the players not respond to the coach(s) anymore? I know I know sore subject but i don't care, but can't we try to get more local talent on the floor? We couldn't do worse i don't think. Who has really stood out the past few years? Stucki-Kinghorn-Schroeder(?) and the Utah boys Henry's and the John Stockton look alike Gardner? Row will be missed too. I just don't get it. A senior filled team and we can't get it going. We might be looking to far for talent. It could be in our back yard?
Who knows with a higher caliber of talent Coach O might not have to get so vocal but it ultimately comes down to what type of talent he puts on the floor.

Baller, what do you see being the problem or what could be the fix?
 
Bengalcub said: "it has been obvious to me that when this team plays hard--they can or could have beat any team in the BSC." I agree on that one, cub. They showed it a couple of times.
The BIG question is, IMHO, "Why aren't they playing hard?"
The announcers and O'Brien mentioned that again (in the post game interview). (I didn't make it to the game tonight but listened on the radio.) Are they that destroyed mentally? Besides the physical injuries (such as Amorrow) something else seems to be going on.
What gives? Anyone have any insight?
Are the majority of Bengal supporters now counting down to football instead? Starting to feel like things were towards the end of the last football season - couldn't wait for basketball to start! And so the cycle continues! :cry:
 
I think Idaho State is missing players like Stucki, Schroeder and Kinghorn. This team does not have a leader night in and night out. Maybe a local flavor would give them some of that--I don't know for sure. What I do know is that this team was loaded with SR's--leadership should have been a given.

Losing Busma and Caspari in particular really hurt this team. Caspari had energy and the energy and spunk that was sorely needed by ISU this year. Also, losing Taylor to grades was tough, too. Finally, because of a medical condition, Little cannot play the minutes that were needed in BSC play. Neither one of these players were game breakers--but it gave ISU more options.

ISU cannot do anything inside and they are really a below average team from the perimeter. I believe these two ailments make ISU awfully predictable. I think it hurts.

However, despite all of these setbacks--when the team plays hard for at least 30 minutes a game they are good enough to win in the BSC. How many time have we seen this team play horrible for a half and lights out in another half? When this team decides to play they compete and give themselves a chance to win.

I don't believe that O'Brien is the only one to blame--that is all I am saying. If I were a SR and this was my last go around in college basketball, I would go balls to the wall every night.
 
notabengalalum said:
Are the majority of Bengal supporters now counting down to football instead? Starting to feel like things were towards the end of the last football season - couldn't wait for basketball to start! And so the cycle continues! :cry:
Click to expand...

I am guilty as charged waiting for spring football to start. Then by mid fall of next year I will be looking forward to basketball. I have been doing that all of my life.

It always seems that when ISU is supposed to be good, they aren't. When the expectations are low...once in awhile they overachieve. If they are supposed to be deep and talented they end up thin and when you think they will be thin--they get by. I don't know why that is, but if seems to be a safe bet.

Sadley, I think I just expect it--and maybe fans like me...in the end are part of the problem. It seems like I find great joy in .500 seasons. Sad, huh?
 
Hmmm...I haven't watched ISU more than 2-3 times this season on bigskytv.org but they certainly played with heart and effort vs. NAU last Saturday night.

Both teams had big runs at different points in the game. Both teams may not have the best talent in the conference but neither quit during this game. And causing the most frustration, neither team could shoot free throws worth a s***. Not a happy end to the game for me as an NAU fan but iw was a fun game to watch as a basketball fan.

Don't give up on your team quite yet. PSU and NAU could screw up their standings and ISU could still sneak in. I think with the parity (okay...apart from Weber State) shown so far in this league that PSU, NAU, ISU and EWU all have a shot at earning one of the last two bids for playoffs.

MTJack
 
I'm going to agree with Roar once again...Let's get more (not all) local players. The Idaho players that have been on the team do show alot of EFFORT on their part. It does come down to heart just like I said during football. The players themselves have to have heart and desire to win. Skippy, why did Kelvin Krosch only last a week? Coach O may have been trying to bring that heart and desire from Kelvin to his basketball team. As I stated in another post, I noticed Kelvin's younger brother, Kole is leading the area in scoring in the Post Register. Maybe he would want to try to be a two sport athlete? I personally haven't seen him play but by Cubs interview and reading newspaper sounds like he is cut from the same mold. Heart and desire which our basketball team is lacking. The Post Register last week had Fuller of Madison (who is going to U Of U to play BB) and Kole Krosch both scoring 40. Did ISU recruit either player for BB? Something needs to change and I don't know if it is the coach or not...This is soooo discouraging because I was so looking forward to an exciting fun basketball season.
 
My understanding was that Kelvin realized that playing basketball was too big an additional commitment. The days of two-sport athletes are dwindling. Football is nearly a year around commitment these days, with winter conditioning, spring football, summer 7 on 7s, then the season. And football players spend their time building "football" conditioning, vs. the different set of muscles they use for basketball.
 
I can't take it any longer... I have to speak up.. Are you people that believe we could field a D1 team that is respectable and competitive with mostly local talent plain stupid, or are you that naive?? There are a handful of girls that could put up 40 on 1A teams.. I've seen the kid from Madison play and he is not that great.. Name 1 major D1 team that has a 6'5" 180 lbs. 4 man.. ? He can't shoot outside and plays on the block, and he is a straight pu$$y at that.. Fact is, contrary to football, basketball in these low population states is LACKING athleticism and talent.. Name 2 HS Sr. in Idaho (Kyle Draginis being 1) that could come in and give significant meaningful minutes for the Bengals next year.. ? I have yet to see an actual good hoop team from Idaho this year, or last..
 
Plain stupid or naive? Do you have the answers for this shitty year? Tuffgong, I thought you said that this was the year? Is the senior laden team mostly from outside the area getting it done? NO, They just got beat by Cal st. Bakers dozen on senior night. It was Cal state's second road win of the season! WOW.

My point being isn't there talent around this (Idaho/N.Utah) area that we could recruit from. Nothing against out of area players but we can do just as good or just as bad as we are doing now!? Am i wrong? We can put more butts in the seats and locals have stock in the program.

I did a quick search and found (2) CSI players from Idaho. What about (1)Jardine at Utah St. from Twinfalls - what about the (1) Morris kid at Weber from Nampa - what about the (1)Fuller kid from Madison - what about the home town kid (1) Nick Hansen at Weber from Pocatello? With my simple calculation that puts a team plus 1 in the mix. Most of the teams these guys are playing for are damn good teams. I know there are lots of unknowns, grades, I wanted to go here because of this etc. but the point being is there is talent around here and where there is one there are others.

So if we are going to lose why not lose with our back yard boys? At least we will have more people at the games and we couldn't do worse. Prove me wrong? I would love for anyone to prove me wrong because we sure as hell ain't getting it done with what we have and how we do it in hoops or football. No more excuses!
 
Bengal Roar said:
So if we are going to lose why not lose with our back yard boys? At least we will have more people at the games and we couldn't do worse. Prove me wrong? I would love for anyone to prove me wrong because we sure as hell ain't getting it done with what we have and how we do it in hoops or football. No more excuses!
Click to expand...

Well, I don't think anybody would argue that ISU has more Idaho kids on the football roster now than it has had in many, many years. Uh, guess what? They're doing worse. Each of the last two years has seen only 1 win. Attendance is also down to one of the lowest levels in many, many years. You could argue that it's because ISU has a horrible record, but the "local folks" sure as Hell aren't coming and supporting the local guys now, are they?

2009 Football Attendance: 5,369 (1 win with 30 Idahoans on roster, most in many years)
2008 Football Attendance: 5,791 (1 win)
2007 Football Attendance: 6,820 (3 wins)
2006 Football Attendance: 7,435 (2 wins)
2005 Football Attendance: 8,480 (5 wins, with 22 Idahoans on roster)
2004 Football Attendance: 6,648 (3 wins)

You know what? As more Idahoans are joining the roster, attendance is DECREASING!

Please, quit making the argument that more Idahoans on the roster will increase attendance. There is simply no truth to the matter. In fact, the ACTUAL attendance suggests otherwise.

ISU's highest attendance figures come during - GASP!!! - winning seasons!!! Imagine that!
 
i have some great b-ball talent...in my own eyes. give me their scholarship. i'm a local. i'm fighting through my Master's, i could really use a free ride through school just by giving "some" effort.

CUB is right here...the boys on the court have to take at least half the blame.

I LOVE the real stats that show what a lot of us have been saying for years!! Idaho is a state where VERY VERY few athletes will ever come from. whine about it or come to that realization.




BRING BACK MENS GOLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Tuffgong...why are you always hating on the local players? We lack players like Stucki and Schoeder...Obviously U of U sees something in Fuller even if you don't. And I am going to tell you something just because a kid comes from a small school does not mean that they can't be awesome athletes. Obviously Coach O thought Kelvin Krosch could help his team with something the team is lacking and it sounds like his little brother has the same abilities. No one is naive enough to think ISU could field a team of Idaho players but like Roar said could it be much worse? Something is missing with this years team, maybe a player like Stucki or Schoeder(who played at a small Idaho high school) that plays with effort and heart.
 
I am not opposed to seeing more Idaho players if they have the talent, but the argument that it will increase attendance is just not true. It wasn't too many years ago (2005-2006 season) that we had a team with 4 East Idahoans: Stucki, Kinghorn, Schroeder, and Stevens. Attendance was not any better that year than any other year.
 
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