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Glanville Cleans House,

forestgreen

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Raises Student Government's Ire

http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandstatevikings/2008/07/glanville_cleans_house_raises.html

Ian's on this very interesting story. I would also note several of the presumed players cut were recruited by Glanville, in other words, they aren't all Walsh recruits:

With less than two months (46 days) until Jerry Glanville kicks off his second season at the helm of Viking football, he has finally decided to gut the soft underbelly of last year's 3-8 team.

According to Willamette Week by way of ASPSU (student government), at least 12 scholarship players from last year's team have been informed that their scholarships have not been renewed for the coming year.

The terminations alone are not news. This happens everywhere, almost every year to some degree. The news is that ASPSU has expressed frustration with Glanville's move.

According to WW:

But representatives of PSU's student government say what's happened in Glanville's second year as head coach comes without a good explanation. They also say it hurts students who represent the first half of the phrase "student-athletes" because they're in good academic standing.

While I respect ASPSU's desire to defend students, it seems that the explanation they are seeking is right in front of their faces in the awful record of last year's team.

If some of the representatives attended any of last year's five home games (I'm sure some did), they would have seen a severely flawed team hampered by Glanville's initial reluctance to clean house upon taking over.

Despite not knowing many of the players names, I'm pretty sure that Glanville could have told you many of the cut players wouldn't be contributors over a year ago. While I'm only guessing, I'd guess that part of the reason he didn't cut them then was the same reason he honored some of the scholarships former coach Tim Walsh had promised this year - because he didn't think it was ethical to take something that had been promised by someone else away.

That gives the players, who are on year-to-year scholarships, a chance to prove Glanville wrong and earn their keep.

As to ASPSU's contention that the cuts "hurts students who represent the first half of the phrase "student-athletes" because they're in good academic standing" - no one said being a student-athlete was going to be easy.

But you can't just fulfill one half of the equation. A student-athlete is both a student in the class and a contributor on his/her respective team. Just being athletic doesn't cut it. Just being a smart doesn't cut it.

If things still work as they did when I was at PSU, I believe a large chunk of student fees go to athletics and, thus, football. In the past ASPSU has tried to change that cash flow and it is good that they are watching what the athletic department does now.

But they should remember the following. The best return on student's investment will come from a flourishing football program (and others) that fans want to pay to see. If Glanville proves unable to deliver that, it would be a good thing to have ASPSU speak up, but at this point he needs room to prove himself.

In cutting a few players who did not fit into his plan, Glanville has freed up some scholarships which hopefully he can use on student-athletes who do fit into his plan.

NOTE: Remember that not all players receive full scholarships. Thus, 12 cut players could amount to less than 12 available scholarships.
 
Here's the WW article that is quoted in the previous entry:

http://wweek.com/wwire/?p=12469

PSU's Student Government Pushes Back on Football Coach For Cutting Players and their Scholarships

In a shakeup so big that some of Portland State University's non-football students are screaming, Vikings football coach Jerry Glanville has dropped several players from the roster, causing those athletes to lose their scholarships.

"Running a player off his scholarship"—the practice of making a player's life so miserable through lack of playing time or other disincentives—is far from unusual in college athletics.

But representatives of PSU's student government say what's happened in Glanville's second year as head coach comes without a good explanation. They also say it hurts students who represent the first half of the phrase "student-athletes" because they're in good academic standing. Representatives of ASPSU say at least 12 football players have been cut this year, a new high.

PSU spokesman Scott Gallagher wouldn't confirm that number, citing student privacy laws. But he did acknowledge more players were cut this year than in previous years.

That's not too surprising given that Glanville, a former NFL coach and racecar driver with a hard-charging attitude, was brought to PSU to increase attendance at games and raise the program's profile.

But at what cost, the Associated Students of Portland State University are asking? And though that's not a new or unfamiliar question at most university campuses across the country, it's one that has fresh implications at PSU because of Glanville's mission to lift PSU football.

The student athletes who were cut were on one-year scholarships not subject to automatic renewal, Gallagher says. And they were notified of the changes in writing before June 30, says Torre Chisholm, PSU's athletic director.

It is currently unclear who has been cut. But we'll have more as it becomes available.
 
Not sure if it's true or not, but it sounds like these guys from a comment on the wweek site:

Reggie Joseph, AJ Nielsen, Marcus Brigham, Marcel Thompson, Matt Smith, AJ Hills, Tristin Patin, Scott Stone, and Ronnie Fa'avae.

Of course that's not confirmed.

So, uh, wow. Camp starts in less than a month.

Regarding the response by the ASPSU. I guess I'm excited that they are actually watching what's going on, but hey, it comes down to this: Jerry Glanville is here to win football games. If those who are not having their scholarships renewed were not going to put us where we need to be, and we can fill those scholarships with guys that can, then I'm behind it 100%.

It's going to be an interesting fall camp....
 
I don't quite understand what the problem is. It should be clear that a scholarship must be earned and doesn't just mean free tuition. Sure, losing his scholarship is tough and embarrassing for a young guy who has built his whole college life around football, but it's not like those kids were not aware of how college football works when they signed. They are still in college and most of them got a bunch of free credits. That's worth something, too. Of course the WW is not the least interested in the second part of the phrase "student-athlete"...
 
This seems to be much ado about nothing. If a student-athlete can't cut it as a student, or as an athlete, then their scholarship money isn't warranted. All I want to know is who JG can bring in to replace the departed players.
 
Looks like none are part of the OL, fortunately. We've got six upperclassmen there, and nine freshmen. Admittedly two of the freshmen are RSs, but they haven't played in any games. A couple injuries would bring those freshmen in in a hurry. How are we going to do against a team that blitzes a lot?
 
Hope these guys can find some school to continue their education. Smith and Joseph might be good enough players to make a run at playing pro if they can get their acts together in the classroom.
 
it is under my understanding from what some of the players have been saying was that a lot of the people released because of academic problems. But a couple of the players that were released, were because they were 'Walsh recruits' and not recruits Glanville liked in his eyes. This amuses me because some of Walsh's recruits, Marcel Thompson and Matt Smith, started during Spring Ball. And Matt Smith started during the season as well and from what i saw did pretty well. I thought he would be a shoe in for a starter in 2008 but i guess these new recruits at wide receiver must be great.
 
And here is a thought what happens if some of these guys appeal goes through. Will Glanville allow them to join the team again? I mean if the appeal goes through then these players will obviously be taking scholarships from some of the people who were promised a scholarship. This will be an interesting next couple weeks when we hear more about this story.
 
martymoose said:
Not sure if it's true or not, but it sounds like these guys from a comment on the wweek site:

Reggie Joseph, AJ Nielsen, Marcus Brigham, Marcel Thompson, Matt Smith, AJ Hills, Tristin Patin, Scott Stone, and Ronnie Fa'avae.

Of course that's not confirmed.

So, uh, wow. Camp starts in less than a month.

Regarding the response by the ASPSU. I guess I'm excited that they are actually watching what's going on, but hey, it comes down to this: Jerry Glanville is here to win football games. If those who are not having their scholarships renewed were not going to put us where we need to be, and we can fill those scholarships with guys that can, then I'm behind it 100%.


Wow !! I can't quite believe what is being said here, and by Ian Ruder, as well. Talk about "fan" aticism getting in the way resonableness, fairness, justice, etc.

Marty, you've always struck me as one of the most open-minded, thoughtful and fair "posters'" on this, and the other, forum. I was shocked by your opinion on this one. As a parent of a "student-athlete," I feel obliged to step in here and respond with a different point of view.

This is not the pros. This is amateur college athletics. These coaches come into your home, "recruiting" your child, promising them (and you) the "world." They make many, many promises, pleading with you to attend their school, promising at least a 4 year full ride scholarship, with the only condition that you have to maintain a minimum academic standing. These are impressionable young men, who put their life, and their education, in the hands of these "salesmen." Yes, I know it is, in principle, 1 year renewable, but they also tell you that that's just a formality, and no-one loses their scholarship.

And you know, that's the way it should be. If what they really mean is, well, it's only for a year, and if we can find a better player than you next year, we'll cut you and use your scholarship for someone we think's better than you, then there will be absolute anarchy, no loyalty, and the system will fall apart. It doesn't, and shouldn't work that way. I sure hope someone steps in here and appaeals these.

Having said that, I don't know if this is academic or not, re these players. From what I read, it might be for a few of these young men. If they haven't maintained their academic standing, then, no problem, they didn't keep up their end of the bargain. But if it's not, I hope they appeal, as I'm sure they'll win, and at least get to complete a degree here at PSU. And maybe teach Glanville a lesson in the process.
 
BakNBlakpdx said:
And here is a thought what happens if some of these guys appeal goes through. Will Glanville allow them to join the team again? I mean if the appeal goes through then these players will obviously be taking scholarships from some of the people who were promised a scholarship. This will be an interesting next couple weeks when we hear more about this story.

I hope they appeal, as they'll win - especially at a "liberal" institution like PSU. Unfortunately, they'll likely not get to play football, so that part of their college dream will be taken from them. That's why many move on, rather than fight for what is right. The coaches count on that. This is the big weapon and "abuse of authority position" that these coaches wield over the student-athletes. If some of these young men only have a year of eligibility left, they might appeal, just so they can complete their degrees.
 
GustaViking said:
martymoose said:
Not sure if it's true or not, but it sounds like these guys from a comment on the wweek site:

Reggie Joseph, AJ Nielsen, Marcus Brigham, Marcel Thompson, Matt Smith, AJ Hills, Tristin Patin, Scott Stone, and Ronnie Fa'avae.

Of course that's not confirmed.

So, uh, wow. Camp starts in less than a month.

Regarding the response by the ASPSU. I guess I'm excited that they are actually watching what's going on, but hey, it comes down to this: Jerry Glanville is here to win football games. If those who are not having their scholarships renewed were not going to put us where we need to be, and we can fill those scholarships with guys that can, then I'm behind it 100%.


Wow !! I can't quite believe what is being said here, and by Ian Ruder, as well. Talk about "fan" aticism getting in the way resonableness, fairness, justice, etc.

Marty, you've always struck me as one of the most open-minded, thoughtful and fair "posters'" on this, and the other, forum. I was shocked by your opinion on this one. As a parent of a "student-athlete," I feel obliged to step in here and respond with a different point of view.

This is not the pros. This is amateur college athletics. These coaches come into your home, "recruiting" your child, promising them (and you) the "world." They make many, many promises, pleading with you to attend their school, promising at least a 4 year full ride scholarship, with the only condition that you have to maintain a minimum academic standing. These are impressionable young men, who put their life, and their education, in the hands of these "salesmen." Yes, I know it is, in principle, 1 year renewable, but they also tell you that that's just a formality, and no-one loses their scholarship.

And you know, that's the way it should be. If what they really mean is, well, it's only for a year, and if we can find a better player than you next year, we'll cut you and use your scholarship for someone we think's better than you, then there will be absolute anarchy, no loyalty, and the system will fall apart. It doesn't, and shouldn't work that way. I sure hope someone steps in here and appaeals these.

Having said that, I don't know if this is academic or not, re these players. From what I read, it might be for a few of these young men. If they haven't maintained their academic standing, then, no problem, they didn't keep up their end of the bargain. But if it's not, I hope they appeal, as I'm sure they'll win, and at least get to complete a degree here at PSU. And maybe teach Glanville a lesson in the process.

GustaViking,

I see your point. Especially as the parent of a student athlete.

I may sound like a Glanville apologist here, but it's a tough situation. First off, the NCAA has a clause for new kids that sign who can opt out of their LOI if a coach is fired or quits, but the NCAA doesn't really have too much for JR/SR players in a position like this. New coach(s), new systems, etc. So Glanville comes into town somewhat late in terms of a college football coach, gets spring practice in, then starts to get ready for fall. There is no way that he can make drastic changes, since the kids are already signed to scholarships and he should (and did) honor them.

Fast forward through the 3-8 season.

It's obvious that in a lot of cases, we have the wrong folks for positions in the new systems with the record of last season. Positions have been shuffled over and over again since last spring. With injuries, we have positions in the new system that have zero depth.

So what is the head coach supposed to do? He's brought here to win games and get us over the 7-4/6-5 wall that we always used to hit under Walsh. Do you burn two years with players that were recruited for a totally different system, or one? Is 3-8/5-6/6-5 better than 3-8/4-7/8-3 after three years? The coaching staff can't get a good look at the development/growth of a player until spring ball starts, and you may as well see that player all the way through that period to get a complete look.

If people want to blame someone for JR/SR players getting their partial or full scholarship yanked after so many years in a program that they were recruited into by another coach, blame the PSU Athletic Department. They brought the coach in. Don't blame the head coach. He's just doing the job that he was brought in to do...
 
Eight players lose scholarships
Citing academics and off-field issues, Glanville trims last season's roster

http://media.www.dailyvanguard.com/media/storage/paper941/news/2008/07/16/Sports/Eight.Players.Lose.Scholarships-3391146.shtml
 
Smith and Thompson in trouble with housing? For me, that doesn't seem like just cause for the decision unless they caused thousands in damages.
 
WiViking said:
Smith and Thompson in trouble with housing? For me, that doesn't seem like just cause for the decision unless they caused thousands in damages.

Potentially, I could see that being just cause. Unlike being lazy on the field or not studying off of it, causing problems in student housing can adversely impact the wellness of other students.
 
No one hurt, no damages listed, and they apparently are still in dorms and listed as "in good standing." Sounds trumped up to me.
 

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