Have We Hit Rock Bottom?

[mkmksthwrth]

First loss in 20 years to a D2 school... 19 of the last 20 games lost... all time record -33 yards rushing... fumble,fumble,safety,fumble,fumble,interception,interception... But really, is this the bottom because it sure feels like it?

Its just amazing what BSU did with their program. I mean, I remember the last time we played them in the dome and won! It was not that long ago. Say what you will about their schedule but they are no. 5 IN THE NATION. We need to take a page out of their book. Where do we go from here? I just don't see more scholarships as the answer. And really, what is a new coach going to do?

It's such a downward spiral. More losses = less fans = less money = more losses and so on, and so on...

How do we change the direction of this program?

:?:

 

[Bengal Roar]

I am not much of a BSU fan but i will tell you one thing, they execute their plays with nearly perfection every time. The players all know what needs to be done and they make sure they ALL make their assignments. They are a sharp team.

Back to your question. I hope we have hit rock bottom because all we can do is go up from here.

 

[biobengal]

Sure, people complain about BSU's schedule all the time, but it's propelled them into the national spotlight, that and their blue turf.

Before we drag Zamberlin down, I think we need to take a brief tour through ISU's scheduling history. First, I maintain that ISU desperately needs to schedule like BSU to build this program. Look at Larry's first year with the program, 2 sub D1 teams to start the season, 6 home games, and a road game at SUU. In his next two years, Lewis had MT Tech to start the season, road games at Utah State, and home and away with SUU. In fact, until 2004, Lewis never had less than six home games in a year. ISU is coming off two straight 8 win seasons, then 2004... Lewis is hamstrung, ISU never has more than 5 home games through the rest of his tenure, and opens with a roadie at an FBS school 2 of his last 3 years. To top it all off, in Lewis's last year, ISU has it's first year with two FBS programs. WHAT A SHOCK!!! His teams appear worse when the schedule becomes more difficult, very curious.

What a bonehead mistake, ISU had momentum with Lewis, ISU had some of the most successful teams in the last 20 years, and his schedules get progressively worse. Was Lewis setting up these schedules? IMO, his program would have kept chugging with better scheduling... well, and better control of his players.

By comparison, Zamberlin in his first year has 6 home games.... however, ISU travels to Oregon State and hosts playoff team Cal-Poly. In Z's second year... 7 ROAD GAMES!!!! Including at Boise and Idaho to start the year. Then North Dakota a solid transitioning D2. Well, we all know what happened this year.

Since 2004, each year the scheduling became worse. I ASK, CAN THE SCHEDULING GET ANY WORSE???? It really can't... ASU, OU, Weber (BSC Champs), then a top-5 D2. What a shock, some of ISU's kids are starting to take plays off. Really, what's next? Florida, USC, then Texas.

 

[bengalcub]

My son asked me that question Sunday morning.

The answer to that question is NO.

It is my humble, humble opinion that the bottom will manifest itself with the foundation of the Zamberlin program crumbles beyond repair. This coaching staff is a good staff and they are good human beings. I believe that they care about the kids, the community and they are truly working their asses off to try and bring a winner to Pocatello.

But here is why it will not work. ISU has not retained players in the first two years of Coach Z's tenure. Close to 50% of the 2007 and 2008 freshman class are no longer with the team. This program can only succeed if it is built on a solid foundation and that foundation starts with continuity, leadership and talent. Idaho State does has some young talent and some true diamonds in good young players, but they simply do not have enough NUMBERS to translate into wins on the field.

Most people believe that it takes 5 or 6 years to build a program and a solid foundation and I get that. However, the attrition rate and NCAA APR penalties are going to bite Idaho State in the ass big time.

Zamberlin can coach at this level and he can recruit at this level, but it took until the 3rd year for him to figure out how to do it. In my opinion he came to ISU and tried to do it the same way as he did at Central Washington. Zamberlin targeted the top tier kids that he was going to bring into Central Washington and brought them to Pocatello instead. He took chances with kids that were not good fits for Pocatello and he paid very little attention to what was going on in the classroom. This is starting to change now, because the coaching staff realizes that it has to fix these things. The things that a casual fan does not notice.

With that said, if he is given another 3-4 years he will build something good at Idaho State. I believe that with all my heart. However, it is the mistakes of the first two years that I think will cost him the opportunity to build a winner at Idaho State. The foundation of the program is simply built on a foundation of cards and sadly I believe this house will crumble to epic proportions in the very near future.

Now, I am not the all knowing one and I do not mean to seem arrogant--but I am very well connected in the ISU community. Not as a big money donor, not as a star former athlete--but I do feel the pulse and I feel it very well. I also have a PM box that is flooded with information from folks that would prefer not to be identified. More information than I WILL EVER SHARE on this board. I see and smell smoke and where there is smoke there is fire.

Love me or hate me for what I post, but bet the house on one thing---I know what I am talking about.

 

[biobengal]

One more thing... while I'm on the LL trip, I'm tired of all the "we had to rebuild" BS.

In LL's worst and last year he was at least competitive:

Sure, only beating:
Fort Lewis
UNC

But also making decent showings:
@ Idaho -3
NAU -6
MSU -7
@ Montana -13
Sac St. -8
Weber -3

Was that a program that was totally down?

 

[bengalcub]

Zamberlin already stated on his coaches show that the problems that have plagued ISU over the last 20-30 years cannot be fixed immediately.

 

[biobengal]

Oh by the way, just one more thing that might cement these feelings....

For the first time in school history, the program is below 0.500. ISU is now officially 442-443.

 

[Skippy]

Cub, I think we all get your point about the attrition in the program, but I don't think it's unique to ISU. Boise State has the smallest senior class in the nation this year -- five seniors. Good, talented underclassmen are better than juniors and seniors who cannot play. As I noted earlier, I think this year's recruiting class is a good one. The challenge is winning a few games this year, so they can follow it up with another good one.

The coaching staff took note of the problems on the defensive line last year and went out and recruited a bunch of d linemen. And they got a very good d-line coach in Cullen, and the result is that the d line is improving this year. It's still not Montana, by any stretch, but it's better. One way to measure that is to look at all the tackles Arias and Storms are getting -- if the d-line doesn't keep the o-line off the linebackers, those tackles go to the secondary -- or to the house.

Obviously, we got big o-line problems this year. I'm hoping the coaching staff goes out and does another mass recruit in that area -- bring in five or six JC O-linemen who can play right away and put them to work next season.

I understand your point about the turnover issue, Cub, but really what's done is done. Those kids are gone, and you have to start recruiting with the future in mind. As bad as our running game has looked so far, I really do think Tracy, Morgan, LaPorta and Scott can get yards behind a better O-line. So let's go get one.

 

[votb]

Cub, I think we all get your point about the attrition in the program, but I don't think it's unique to ISU. Boise State has the smallest senior class in the nation this year -- five seniors. Good, talented underclassmen are better than juniors and seniors who cannot play. As I noted earlier, I think this year's recruiting class is a good one. The challenge is winning a few games this year, so they can follow it up with another good one.

The coaching staff took note of the problems on the defensive line last year and went out and recruited a bunch of d linemen. And they got a very good d-line coach in Cullen, and the result is that the d line is improving this year. It's still not Montana, by any stretch, but it's better. One way to measure that is to look at all the tackles Arias and Storms are getting -- if the d-line doesn't keep the o-line off the linebackers, those tackles go to the secondary -- or to the house.

Obviously, we got big o-line problems this year. I'm hoping the coaching staff goes out and does another mass recruit in that area -- bring in five or six JC O-linemen who can play right away and put them to work next season.

I understand your point about the turnover issue, Cub, but really what's done is done. Those kids are gone, and you have to start recruiting with the future in mind. As bad as our running game has looked so far, I really do think Tracy, Morgan, LaPorta and Scott can get yards behind a better O-line. So let's go get one.

Yeah...what he said!

 

[bengalcub]

Skippy, I appreciate your opinion and the angle you have presented.

However, Boise State has a solid tradition and the amount of Seniors that they have this year is not an issue in the BSU program. Boise State has been so good and the foundation of the program has been so solid and they have reaped the rewards of that stability. The recruits that they are getting now are a product of that success and national recognition that they have gained from being successful. BSU is not rebuilding they are reloading with weapons of mass destruction.

ISU and Boise State is like comparing Milk Weed to Apples.

 

[Bengal Roar]

That is why Trevyn Smith looks so damn flashy because of his hard nosed oxen in front of him parting the red sea. And now they(weber) get to indulge in the talent that Pocatello has offered them in Goody. Weber saw what we didn't! Goes back to recruiting? Okay, i will let this one go for now.

 

[mkmksthwrth]

Since 2004, each year the scheduling became worse. I ASK, CAN THE SCHEDULING GET ANY WORSE???? It really can't... ASU, OU, Weber (BSC Champs), then a top-5 D2. What a shock, some of ISU's kids are starting to take plays off. Really, what's next? Florida, USC, then Texas.

Wow, well said.

 

[mkmksthwrth]

What a bonehead mistake, ISU had momentum with Lewis, ISU had some of the most successful teams in the last 20 years, and his schedules get progressively worse. Was Lewis setting up these schedules? IMO, his program would have kept chugging with better scheduling... well, and better control of his players.

It's such a catch 22. Roar pointed out a similar scenario with blocking. It would be AWESOME to get a couple three teams that we could just SMASH at the first of the season. I am sure it would help with the fan base. But it's just not an option when we are broke as a joke. And why are we broke? Because we don't win games... The cycle continues downward...

Why do we have to charge for parking, well, because we are out of money. Why are we out of money? No one shows up to the games. Does paying $5 for parking make any student/future donor/family squeezing pennies in the crunch want to go to more games? NO. Especially after their student funds purchased the place years ago. Let the cycle continue...

I just don't know if throwing out the band-aide mentality at ISU will be of any negative effect. I just don't see it being much worse than our patching up an already patched tire effect we get now a days.

 

[votb]

My only comment here will be about the parking issue. That horse was pretty much beat to death in other threads when it was a hot topic about two years ago. Suffice it to say the residents in our local community refused to approve any kind of bond funding that could help with updates and rennovations to Holt Arena, even though the large majority of events in Holt have been public rather than ISU-related. Thus the decision to charge for parking. It was decided full parking fees would be implemented gradually. That's why last year parking was just a buck, and why last year and this year there is no charge for high school games. I believe, though, that starting next year, parking fees will begin for those games, too. If my information is correct, Holt arena made enough money from parking last year to make some improvements in what food is offered and how it is prepared in the concessions areas (no more George Foreman grills). The money went right back into improving services for those who come to events, and that's what will happen with these fees as they gradually are charged for all events at Holt.

I feel that parking fees should have been charged many years ago, along with increased facility-use fees, etc. for outside organizations. It wasn't done then, but is being done now. My opinion is "better late than never". The general public has been spoiled and feels like Holt almost belongs to the community, even though it doesn't feel any need to bear any of the fiscal responsibilities. Some people don't think it's fair...oh well.

 

[qb]

Good points Bio. Teams need to win some games and get used to performing well, and gain confidence.

Sure, people complain about BSU's schedule all the time, but it's propelled them into the national spotlight, that and their blue turf.

Before we drag Zamberlin down, I think we need to take a brief tour through ISU's scheduling history. First, I maintain that ISU desperately needs to schedule like BSU to build this program. Look at Larry's first year with the program, 2 sub D1 teams to start the season, 6 home games, and a road game at SUU. In his next two years, Lewis had MT Tech to start the season, road games at Utah State, and home and away with SUU. In fact, until 2004, Lewis never had less than six home games in a year. ISU is coming off two straight 8 win seasons, then 2004... Lewis is hamstrung, ISU never has more than 5 home games through the rest of his tenure, and opens with a roadie at an FBS school 2 of his last 3 years. To top it all off, in Lewis's last year, ISU has it's first year with two FBS programs. WHAT A SHOCK!!! His teams appear worse when the schedule becomes more difficult, very curious.

What a bonehead mistake, ISU had momentum with Lewis, ISU had some of the most successful teams in the last 20 years, and his schedules get progressively worse. Was Lewis setting up these schedules? IMO, his program would have kept chugging with better scheduling... well, and better control of his players.

By comparison, Zamberlin in his first year has 6 home games.... however, ISU travels to Oregon State and hosts playoff team Cal-Poly. In Z's second year... 7 ROAD GAMES!!!! Including at Boise and Idaho to start the year. Then North Dakota a solid transitioning D2. Well, we all know what happened this year.

Since 2004, each year the scheduling became worse. I ASK, CAN THE SCHEDULING GET ANY WORSE???? It really can't... ASU, OU, Weber (BSC Champs), then a top-5 D2. What a shock, some of ISU's kids are starting to take plays off. Really, what's next? Florida, USC, then Texas.

 

[Bengal Roar]

Well said VOTB. Couldn't say it better myself