History for Otis Campbell

[JJB]

Okay Otis, you keep asking the same questions regarding ISU over and over. Rather than hijack a thread like so many do on here, I thought I'd create a new thread. Be patient, because this is going to be a long one, probably separated by several posts. Understand a lot of this is my opinion, and if any others have something to add to this conversation, please do.

The worst thing, or rather person, to happen to ISU athletics was Richard Bowen, hired as president in 1984-85. He reined as president for 20 years. Why was he bad?

1. He publicly questioned the value of athletics within a university.
2. He wanted ISU AND the entire Big Sky Conference to move to Division II.
3. He banned concerts from taking place in the Minidome shortly after he became president.
a) Pocatello hosted MANY big names and concerts. They were on the SLC-Portland route.
b) This resulted in a loss of revenue - revenue which had been used for maintenance/upkeep.
4. He oversaw a $120+ capital campaign in which ZERO dollars were given to athletics.
a) Millions of dollars earmarked for a new arena were "persuaded" to the performing arts center.
5. He didn't allow fundraising to take place in numerous departments across campus.
a) VOTB will know this better than anyone, but he wouldn't even allow the local campus NPR station
to host pledge drives.
6. In his tenure, he had 8 athletic directors. The 2 previous presidents had 2 each (and 1 overlapped).

 

[JJB]

Prior to Bowen, ISU's presidents were William "Bud" Davis, and Myron "Barney" Coulter. Each oversaw a stable and productive athletic department.

The AD during most of Davis tenure was Dubby Holt. Like it or not, the Minidome was a world class facility in its day. When Holt retired, Babe Caccia assumed the duty (he had been working as an ass't AD). Besides the dome, during this stretch before Caccia retired, ISU made it to the Elite 8 and won the I-AA national championship.

Both presidents knew the value of athletics, and they had AD's who were passionate about ISU and had great vision.

 

[PBP]

Okay Otis, you keep asking the same questions regarding ISU over and over. Rather than hijack a thread like so many do on here, I thought I'd create a new thread. Be patient, because this is going to be a long one, probably separated by several posts. Understand a lot of this is my opinion, and if any others have something to add to this conversation, please do.

The worst thing, or rather person, to happen to ISU athletics was Richard Bowen, hired as president in 1984-85. He reined as president for 20 years. Why was he bad?

1. He publicly questioned the value of athletics within a university.
2. He wanted ISU AND the entire Big Sky Conference to move to Division II.
3. He banned concerts from taking place in the Minidome shortly after he became president.
a) Pocatello hosted MANY big names and concerts. They were on the SLC-Portland route.
b) This resulted in a loss of revenue - revenue which had been used for maintenance/upkeep.
4. He oversaw a $120+ capital campaign in which ZERO dollars were given to athletics.
a) Millions of dollars earmarked for a new arena were "persuaded" to the performing arts center.
5. He didn't allow fundraising to take place in numerous departments across campus.
a) VOTB will know this better than anyone, but he wouldn't even allow the local campus NPR station
to host pledge drives.
6. In his tenure, he had 8 athletic directors. The 2 previous presidents had 2 each (and 1 overlapped).

Can't disagree with much of what you wrote. The concert situation though also was influenced by the fact that because concerts started staging large productions with massive speakers the engineers declared that the Holt Arena roof / structure could not and would not support all that weight. It was a safety hazard. The big name groups were not willing (or able) to scale down their shows so they simply went to venues that could handle the productions.

Agree with everything else though Bowen was anathema to athletics.

PBP

 

[JJB]

Keeping up? So let's jump back to Richard Bowen and talk about his now infamous run of AD musical chairs.

After Babe retired, Bowen hired the following as AD:

1. Tom Jewell
a) He had been the wrestling coach, but like other schools, the sport was dropped.
b) When it was obvious he wasn't qualified as AD, Bowen reassigned him as assistant director of
student housing. Seriously. Yet he was still making lots more money than the actual director, so
she up and quit in protest. Never blamed her.
2. Randy Hoffman
a) He was AD at San Jose State and was hired from there. Should have been a red flag. Often
talked
"down" to us simple ISU and Idaho folks.
3. Kelly Wiltbank
a) Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but this was a transitional AD, as Wiltbank was also the
university counsel.
4. Irv Cross
a) He had absolutely no experience, but was hired for name only. Bowen later admitted he was
hired because it was thought he could get national donors, and Bowen would have to worry even
less than he did about the athletic department.
b) Irv began clearing house and hiring "his" coaches. He drove out Williams, arguably the last
successful men's coach at ISU.
5. Howard Gauthier
a) Very nice guy, but out of his element. He publicly stated it wasn't in his job description to raise
funds for the department. At this point, Lewis and local boosters campaigned to get him out.
6. Jim Senter
a) He was an assistant AD at Idaho, and Bowen admitted he thought he'd be able to persuade
(pilfer) UI's donors to give to ISU.
b) He hired a huge staff, with the idea they'd raise the money to cover their own salaries.
c) He hired Paul Bubb to be his backbone.
d) After just one or two years, he quit, saying he was getting lots of migraines.
d1) He actually was making a career of following his former boss, Mike Bohn. After Bohn left UI
to take the San Diego State job, Senter followed him. Then Bohn went to Colorado, and
Senter followed him there.
7. Paul Bubb
a) He was hired from within. No outside search.
b) Despised from many in the department and many outside. There was a "good old boy" culture
created. There's a reason Newlee was eager to leave when Bubb did, but that's another story.
c) He created a hostile environment with Larry Lewis and Doug Oliver. The 3 hated each other.
d) He put the athletic department in a hole to the tune of about $1 million. There were some
shenanigan which were also taking place, and that's a whole other story as well.

 

[JJB]

Can't disagree with much of what you wrote. The concert situation though also was influenced by the fact that because concerts started staging large productions with massive speakers the engineers declared that the Holt Arena roof / structure could not and would not support all that weight. It was a safety hazard. The big name groups were not willing (or able) to scale down their shows so they simply went to venues that could handle the productions.

Agree with everything else though Bowen was anathema to athletics.

PBP

No, that's not true. Bowen's main reason for banning concerts was because of drugs. He felt it was out of control in the dome during concerts. The dome staff and community promised extra security, but he declined. He was trying to remove a headache by creating an excuse which never really was a problem.

The reasons you gave are the reasons NOW as to why the major concerts were stopped. As productions grew and technology became better, it's true the dome simply couldn't handle them anymore. But this has only been within the last 15 years or so.

 

[JJB]

So Bowen finally retires, and Dr. Art Vailas is hired. Vailas was hired to 1) research and solve the lack of a medical school in Idaho; and 2) make ISU less reliant on state money and focus more on private dollars.

After the Bubb fiasco, Jeff Tingey was eased into the AD spot. Was he qualified? Probably not. Was it nepotism? Probably. Has it been a disaster? No, believe it or not.

Vailas took the handcuffs off the athletic department and others to allow them to begin raising funds. Tingey has provided stability to the department, and is the longest serving AD since the Holt/Caccia years. He has provided ONE face for donors to deal with. That's important. It creates trust.

Tingey has done more for facilities since Holt over 50 years ago. Lockerrooms have been extensively renovated. Reed had some updating. A new practice field was built. A new softball field was built. New turf was put in the dome. New courts were provided for basketball.

The problem is you simply can't do everything at once in trying to play catch-up from the Bowen years. It will take time.

Don't get me wrong, there are many areas where I think he's lacking. The sports information department is the worst I've seen it since before the Glenn Alford and then Frank Mercogliano years. He has shown a lot of immaturity, such as when he publicly attacked Stacy Dragila before a game against Boise State, and his friendship with a basketball booster who was bad news.

Personally, I think he's done all he can do. That's not meant to be a knock, but sometimes a new face with new direction is needed. Jeff has been AD for 10 years now. I wouldn't call his tenure a disaster. To me, he and Vailas have shown the potential which is still out there.

 

[otis campbell]

I hadn't anticipated this reaction when creating the post, but thanks for your responses. Your detailed history shows a lot. Maybe this can get turned around. :thumb:

 

[JJB]

Now, about Montana. Montana has/had a sugar daddy named Dennis Washington. That's not a bad thing. Frankly it makes me jealous. He's given your Griz close to $50 million since the 1980's, yes? Folks here in Idaho will recognize the name as the Washington Group, that company which took over Idaho's Morrison-Knudsen years ago.

I had a nice conversation several years ago with Joel Carlson at Montana. From the time the Big Sky started in 1963 until Washington-Griz was built in 1986, Montana had 5, maybe 6, winning seasons. Prior to that, their last winning season was in 1949. In fact, Montana had an overall losing record until the time Washington-Griz was built. It says a lot that they turned that around since that time.

Attendance wise, in the 6 years (early 80's) prior to the stadium being built, Montana's attendance had a season low average of 5,599 and a season high average of 10,151. Build it, and they will come.

Montana captured lightning in a bottle with the donation/building of the new stadium and the hiring of Don Read. It worked out great. It was a great time, and the Big Sky was the best I-AA league at the time. Three conference teams (Boise State, Idaho State, and Montana State) had already won national championships in the early 80's. Recruiting was easy.

It's true, the many years of neglect and losing kills a program from within. But it can be recovered from. It just won't take overnight. ISU doesn't have a sugar daddy or momma to donate millions upon millions of dollars. I wish they did. Be thankful that Montana had this tremendous donation (which still continues, I believe), because it helped get them to where they are today.

Since you made mention about Ricks College dropping athletics, it should be noted that they actually researched the various possibilities as it pertained to keeping them. Garth Hall, a former ISU coach, was AD there before they closed shop. They looked at NAIA, but it became all about peer institutions. They didn't want to be seen as the same as a Montana-Western. They looked at Division II, but it wasn't feasible in the west. They also felt it might cannibalize BYU-Hawaii (which has also now dropped athletics). They wouldn't have minded FCS football, but their other programs would have to be Division I, and they worried this would cannibalize the main BYU Provo program. The LDS church views athletics as a missionary type program, that is, it's a way for others to view and investigate the church. As has been noted, a bad program sometimes gives the false impression that the entire university is bad.

 

[JJB]

So the future.

Vailas retired, after securing a private medical school which is being built on ISU's Meridian campus. He also pissed off most of the faculty/staff by focusing more on private dollars and trying to run the university as a business. There were pros and cons with him, for sure.

Of the three presidential candidates, I believe two of them will take a long look at athletics, understanding how they can help build a university through enrollment, diversity, and donations. Wight from Weber State has overseen a very good basketball and emerging football program. He has said he believes ISU has some aging infrastructure which needs updating. Does that include the dome or Reed?
We shall see. Satterlee from Boise State has worked with the NCAA in terms of compliance, and he has a son currently competing on a Pac-12 team. He has personally seen how BSU used athletics to raise visibility and thus increase applications and enrollment. Woodworth-Ney from ISU would be my last choice, but I do see her getting behind a capital campaign which would direct "something, anything" to athletics.

There are a whole lot of other issues, as have been detailed a hundred times on here. Location. Lack of a major airport. Recruiting. The dynamics of college athletics is becoming more of the haves & have nots. That's not to say ISU can't compete and be in good shape with like institutions. They can. There will be up and down years, but we can live with that.

 

[otis campbell]

JJB, thank you for your knowkedge and insight. I asked questions that, evidently, needed to be asked. As I said, I am an outsider looking in. Your in-depth analysis has shown light on a long festering problem. Thank you.

 

[50 yr fan]

I think this is a pretty good history. I believe in I.S.U.`s potential because of the past, I believe an aggressive President and A.D. can get good coaches and they in turn can get good athletes even though the facilities are aging. They are still large enough to make lots of money at the gate and inspire donors. GO BENGALS

 

[Skippy]

Can't disagree with much of what you wrote. The concert situation though also was influenced by the fact that because concerts started staging large productions with massive speakers the engineers declared that the Holt Arena roof / structure could not and would not support all that weight. It was a safety hazard. The big name groups were not willing (or able) to scale down their shows so they simply went to venues that could handle the productions.

Agree with everything else though Bowen was anathema to athletics.

PBP

No, that's not true. Bowen's main reason for banning concerts was because of drugs. He felt it was out of control in the dome during concerts. The dome staff and community promised extra security, but he declined. He was trying to remove a headache by creating an excuse which never really was a problem.

The reasons you gave are the reasons NOW as to why the major concerts were stopped. As productions grew and technology became better, it's true the dome simply couldn't handle them anymore. But this has only been within the last 15 years or so.

This is kind of an over-simplification John. There was a growing issue of drug abuse at concerts over the years, capped by a couple of well publicized over-doses at a Van Halen concert. Bowen put a temporary halt to concerts until a committee could come up with recommendations for dealing with the drug issue. As a result of committee recommendations ISU moved away from hard rock acts, which were the biggest draws, and toward more PG13 acts. This made it hard to book and cover costs, and of course it put an end to the most popular shows.

In Bowen’s defense, he was always trying to walk the tightrope between his significant LDS constituency and the non-Mormon population. His land deal for the new LDS center on campus drew a lot of criticism, for example, but Bowen knew 60 percent of Eastern Idaho is LDS and if ISU was going to be successful it had to appeal to that population. There are a lot of inherent “challenges” that ISU faces to be “Eastern Idaho’s college of choice,” and addressing the LDS conundrum is high on the list. How do you appeal to both the Mormon and non-Mormon populations? (And BYU-Idaho has certainly added another dynamic to that challenge.)

 

[otis campbell]

Thanks to all for the informed input. I have never seen anything like this. Fantastic! :notworthy: JJB, :thumb:

 

[Wulfz]

Skippy and PBP are awesome in the knowledge they share

 

[Wulfz]

Didn't mean to leave you out JJB. Your awesome tooo!!!!!

 

[isusuperfan]

Outstanding thread!!! This thread has been overdue for some time now, major props to JJB for getting this rolling.

As for the future, let me inject a little optimism: if Kansas State could become a powerhouse in the 1990's after being horrifically bad for over 60 years, and if the Cubs could win a World Series in our lifetime, ANYTHING is possible.

 

[PBP]

Outstanding thread!!! This thread has been overdue for some time now, major props to JJB for getting this rolling.

As for the future, let me inject a little optimism: if Kansas State could become a powerhouse in the 1990's after being horrifically bad for over 60 years, and if the Cubs could win a World Series in our lifetime, ANYTHING is possible.

Agree...anything IS possible (as long as you have the $$$$$, time and people to make it happen - there lies the rub as Shakespeare once wrote...) And right now unfortunately the biggest issue with ISU athletics is one that doesn't seem to have an easy solution, $$$$$. Good people have been attempting to solve that problem for years.

PBP

 

[isusuperfan]

Really, you just need the people and more importantly, the time and the vision. Until Bill Snyder went to Kansas State in 1989 and Montana got Dennis Washington on board, KSU/Montana were nothing. Ohio State was a coaches graveyard until Woody Hayes was hired; he gave the Buckeyes the mantra "You Win With People", which is something all aspiring programs should include in their vision. 5 national titles, 13 BigTen titles, and 8 Rose Bowls later, the Buckeyes became a household name. None of that happens without Hayes. With Kansas State, a lot of people in Manhattan will tell you if Snyder doesn't take the job in 1989, Manhattan is effectively a dead town today and Kansas State is either in the MAC, AAC, C-USA, dropped down to FCS or simply terminated as a program. Here's a great piece on Snyder's impact on Kansas State and the City of Manhattan:

http://www.cjonline.com/sports/2014-08-28/manhattan-project-how-bill-snyder-transformed-kansas-state-and-entire-community

I'd say people matter more than money, because it takes the right people to make sure the money and vision are in sync. Plenty of programs and franchises have tried the opposite; it rarely succeeds. It's why Texas hasn't been relevant since 2010, because while they have the money and influence, they haven't had anyone with the vision or the patience to flesh that vision out. That idea is why I feel like Utah is overall leaps and bounds more successful than Boise State--they have a vision, the personnel and the money, as well as having the patience to deal with any potential pitfalls, and that's allowed them to succeed in multiple sports nationally, as well as having very competitive academic programs. I've always said ISU needs to forge its own path but if it's anyone we need to emulate, it's Utah, not Boise.

In regards to ISU, the idea that people matter more than money is why the money raised during the capital campaign under Bowen had a detrimental effect on athletics--ZERO money, as it was stated, was given to athletics. You could have given ISU half of Elon Musk's money to Bowen and none of it would benefit ISU Athletics because he would have given it to other entities in the university or, based on the stories I've heard over the years from various former employees and professors under him (two of whom were former neighbors of mine), his wife would have helped him spend it.

 

[50 yr fan]

I believe superfan is right, its all about coaches, A.D.`s and supportive Presidents who are the head cheerleaders for the department. Facilities are secondary to the people. GO BENGALS

 

[PBP]

In regards to ISU, the idea that people matter more than money is why the money raised during the capital campaign under Bowen had a detrimental effect on athletics--ZERO money, as it was stated, was given to athletics. You could have given ISU half of Elon Musk's money to Bowen and none of it would benefit ISU Athletics because he would have given it to other entities in the university or, based on the stories I've heard over the years from various former employees and professors under him (two of whom were former neighbors of mine), his wife would have helped him spend it.

My comment on money is based completely on money for the athletic department only. I assumed that would be understood, clearly it was not.

Without money you can't hire the right people (since they aren't going to work for peanuts or if they do, and do well, won't stick around taking better offers), you can't hire ENOUGH folks to do all the needed jobs (without which you are forcing people to do things and areas they aren't trained for or experienced in) and without $$$ you can't have the facilities the glitz and glamour which (unfortunately) is one of the first things looked at by recruits today.

It's basically the first rule in life, follow...the...money. (For good or bad)

If ISU athletics say had a budget of 20 million a year instead of 12 (I think they average around 12) I can GUARANTEE you 90% of all the issues they face would disappear.

Actually when you think about it everything ties together in a way... not saying people or facilities don't matter...of course they do. But you don't get the people or the facilities or the athletes (from a recruiting budget standpoint) without $$$$$ coming first.

Guess Brad better win that lottery real soon! :lol:

PBP