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Idaho and WAC

N

n.ogdencat

Moderator
Staff member
There has been a bit lately in the media about a possible merger of the WAC and Big Sky. I'm under the impression that any merger would purely hinge on Oly sports and not football. I have a feeling that such an idea might pick up speed depending on what happens with Boise State and the Big West this fall when the Big West makes a decision on whether or not to add Boise's oly programs. When Boise leaves, the Big West isn't going to turn down millions, it will leave the WAC with 4 members. There is an excellent chance that Seattle gets an invite to the WCC, maybe Denver too, that would leave NMSU and Idaho. To me, I think NMSU is the better of the two; since I love basketball more than football, but the travel is killer, but with an addition, I figure that the Sky will split into two divisions, and that would mean that Weber would only have to go to UND or NMSU once a year, hopefully. :?

As a basketball fan it would be pretty cool to play Denver, New Mexico State, Seattle, and Idaho more often; especially Idaho and New Mexico State, purely for different reasons though. I love beating Idaho cause I hate their fans and in basketball that happens all the time (Weber winning), and New Mexico State is a great program that would really challenge the Cats. Yet, any addition would make the conference way too big (Denver and New Mexico State would greatly improve our basketball RPI though).

If the Sky could convince Denver to reinstate football, I think they would be the perfect fit, along with the Vandals, in joining the Sky. However, since Idaho is dragging its feet, let them wallow. NMSU is in the middle of nowhere, not that that hasn't affected the Sky's recent recruitment with UND. To me Denver would be a perfect travel partner with UNCO and if Idaho continues their recalcitrant ways a great option for expansion. I only wish they had football.
 
Interesting. I've read on some other forums about this and each time it leaves me shaking my head. How would such a merger work, why would Fullerton want to extend a hand to the WAC and keep it alive, would the university presidents go for such a deal, such a move would only bolster Idahlol's drive to stay FBS and not rejoin the Sky as a full-member. To me, I can't really see any positives about a Big Sky/WAC merger. Yes, there are some bonuses, a greater variety of teams to play during basketball season with two or even three being a shot in our RPI arm, but it just seems to big. What would the divisions be?

North:
UND
MSU
UM
Idaho
Seattle
PSU
EWU
BSU (if Boise doesn't go to the Big West)

South:
Weber
ISU
SAC
NAU
SUU
UNCO
Denver
NMSU

Well, maybe it would work. Interesting.
 
N.OgdenCat said:
Interesting. I've read on some other forums about this and each time it leaves me shaking my head. How would such a merger work, why would Fullerton want to extend a hand to the WAC and keep it alive, would the university presidents go for such a deal, such a move would only bolster Idahlol's drive to stay FBS and not rejoin the Sky as a full-member. To me, I can't really see any positives about a Big Sky/WAC merger. Yes, there are some bonuses, a greater variety of teams to play during basketball season with two or even three being a shot in our RPI arm, but it just seems to big. What would the divisions be?

North:
UND
MSU
UM
Idaho
Seattle
PSU
EWU
BSU (if Boise doesn't go to the Big West)

South:
Weber
ISU
SAC
NAU
SUU
UNCO
Denver
NMSU

Well, maybe it would work. Interesting.
Click to expand...



They wouldnt be separated into divisions in one Big Sky, but two 8 teams conferences (assuming Boise doesnt get that BWC invite). The whole idea was to let the WAC "borrow" some big Sky olympic sports to keep thier NCAA bid alive, this is a olympic sports thing only, all the Big Sky schools that the WAC "borrows" will remain Big Sky in football. Football will be unaffected. The two confs would share revenue, but would still be that, two different conferences.


The only way that I would accept this idea, is if Weber gets to stay with thier traditional rivals, UM, MSU and ISU.

I also think a lot of this discussion will hinge on Weber State, the WAC will want us, and the Big Sky would want to keep us, even with Idaho, BSU, and NMSU the best basketball program not in the MWC or the PAC 12 is Weber, so it will be interesting to see how that detail works itself out.


This is how I could see the conferences shaking out

Big Sky
Weber State
Montana
Montana State
Idaho State
North Dakota
UNC
Denver
SUU

WAC
CSUS
EWU
PSU
Idaho
NMSU
Seattle
NAU
BSU
 
WILDCAT said:
N.OgdenCat said:
Interesting. I've read on some other forums about this and each time it leaves me shaking my head. How would such a merger work, why would Fullerton want to extend a hand to the WAC and keep it alive, would the university presidents go for such a deal, such a move would only bolster Idahlol's drive to stay FBS and not rejoin the Sky as a full-member. To me, I can't really see any positives about a Big Sky/WAC merger. Yes, there are some bonuses, a greater variety of teams to play during basketball season with two or even three being a shot in our RPI arm, but it just seems to big. What would the divisions be?

North:
UND
MSU
UM
Idaho
Seattle
PSU
EWU
BSU (if Boise doesn't go to the Big West)

South:
Weber
ISU
SAC
NAU
SUU
UNCO
Denver
NMSU

Well, maybe it would work. Interesting.
Click to expand...



They wouldnt be separated into divisions in one Big Sky, but two 8 teams conferences (assuming Boise doesnt get that BWC invite). The whole idea was to let the WAC "borrow" some big Sky olympic sports to keep thier NCAA bid alive, this is a olympic sports thing only, all the Big Sky schools that the WAC "borrows" will remain Big Sky in football. Football will be unaffected. The two confs would share revenue, but would still be that, two different conferences.


The only way that I would accept this idea, is if Weber gets to stay with thier traditional rivals, UM, MSU and ISU.

I also think a lot of this discussion will hinge on Weber State, the WAC will want us, and the Big Sky would want to keep us, even with Idaho, BSU, and NMSU the best basketball program not in the MWC or the PAC 12 is Weber, so it will be interesting to see how that detail works itself out.


This is how I could see the conferences shaking out

Big Sky
Weber State
Montana
Montana State
Idaho State
North Dakota
UNC
Denver
SUU

WAC
CSUS
EWU
PSU
Idaho
NMSU
Seattle
NAU
BSU
Click to expand...

Well, if thats the case, allowing the WAC to borrow Big Sky teams, then I would say, not only no, but HELL no. Foollerton is allowing the WAC to survive. Why? Is it a way to get more teams into the Big Dance? But no matter, it still wouldn't help much. The Big WAC would still only get two invites, yes it is better than 1, but no way that a 15/possibly 16 team conference only gets 1 invite to the Big Dance. Who knows though. Things are definitely going to get interesting.

I say, find one more full-member and call it quits.
 
I agree. Let the WAC die a natural death and get on with life in the BSC. We are not desparate to get any of those teams, and why should we save the WAC? It makes no sence. :thumbdown:
 
I can see Idaho being welcomed back as a full member. However, NMS brings nothing to the table. :thumbdown:
 
N.OgdenCat said:
WILDCAT said:
N.OgdenCat said:
Interesting. I've read on some other forums about this and each time it leaves me shaking my head. How would such a merger work, why would Fullerton want to extend a hand to the WAC and keep it alive, would the university presidents go for such a deal, such a move would only bolster Idahlol's drive to stay FBS and not rejoin the Sky as a full-member. To me, I can't really see any positives about a Big Sky/WAC merger. Yes, there are some bonuses, a greater variety of teams to play during basketball season with two or even three being a shot in our RPI arm, but it just seems to big. What would the divisions be?

North:
UND
MSU
UM
Idaho
Seattle
PSU
EWU
BSU (if Boise doesn't go to the Big West)

South:
Weber
ISU
SAC
NAU
SUU
UNCO
Denver
NMSU

Well, maybe it would work. Interesting.
Click to expand...



They wouldnt be separated into divisions in one Big Sky, but two 8 teams conferences (assuming Boise doesnt get that BWC invite). The whole idea was to let the WAC "borrow" some big Sky olympic sports to keep thier NCAA bid alive, this is a olympic sports thing only, all the Big Sky schools that the WAC "borrows" will remain Big Sky in football. Football will be unaffected. The two confs would share revenue, but would still be that, two different conferences.


The only way that I would accept this idea, is if Weber gets to stay with thier traditional rivals, UM, MSU and ISU.

I also think a lot of this discussion will hinge on Weber State, the WAC will want us, and the Big Sky would want to keep us, even with Idaho, BSU, and NMSU the best basketball program not in the MWC or the PAC 12 is Weber, so it will be interesting to see how that detail works itself out.


This is how I could see the conferences shaking out

Big Sky
Weber State
Montana
Montana State
Idaho State
North Dakota
UNC
Denver
SUU

WAC
CSUS
EWU
PSU
Idaho
NMSU
Seattle
NAU
BSU
Click to expand...

Well, if thats the case, allowing the WAC to borrow Big Sky teams, then I would say, not only no, but HELL no. Foollerton is allowing the WAC to survive. Why? Is it a way to get more teams into the Big Dance? But no matter, it still wouldn't help much. The Big WAC would still only get two invites, yes it is better than 1, but no way that a 15/possibly 16 team conference only gets 1 invite to the Big Dance. Who knows though. Things are definitely going to get interesting.

I say, find one more full-member and call it quits.
Click to expand...


:+1:
 
I agree with the consensus so far. One more full member is enough. Get to the point where the Sky has two divisions and stop. If they have to add anyone else, then make the Sky 14 for both football and basketball and break into two divisions for both sports. Add Seattle and Denver for Oly, to off-set Poly and Davis in football, and Idaho for all sports. Let New Mexico State come to the Dee during the OOC. I don't like any idea of loaning the WAC teams, who knows they might stay there.
 
If and when Idaho rejoins the conference, will the conference be broken into two divisions of 6, or will the Sky have a 22 game conference schedule? I like playing all the conference teams twice, but 22 games wouldn't leave to many OOC games every year. 22 Conference games, University of the Southwest, Western State, and New Mexico Highlands every year.
 
talhadfoursteals said:
If and when Idaho rejoins the conference, will the conference be broken into two divisions of 6, or will the Sky have a 22 game conference schedule? I like playing all the conference teams twice, but 22 games wouldn't leave to many OOC games every year. 22 Conference games, University of the Southwest, Western State, and New Mexico Highlands every year.
Click to expand...


I remember Fullerton saying that if Idaho joined, then the Big Sky would see divisions in both hoops and football.
 
I think New Mexico State is going to find a home soon.

We should take the WAC on it's offer, but change the name and make a new FCS Conference. Then make public a 10 year plan that all these teams that have football will go FBS in 2022. Will there be an FBS in 10 years, no, but it will show when this split happens that we are ready for that second division. Pairing these schools as travel partners. 8 for basketball, 6 for football.

Montana
Montana State

Seattle (Basketball)
Portland State

Eastern Washington
Idaho

Weber State
Denver (Basketball)

Then we leave the Big Sky as is, and we have two FCS Conferences that we can schedule with out of conference to keep the TBirds and Bengals on the schedule.

Idaho State
North Dakota
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Sacramento State
Southern Utah
Cal Poly
UC Davis
 
Weberstguy728 said:
I think New Mexico State is going to find a home soon.

We should take the WAC on it's offer, but change the name and make a new FCS Conference. Then make public a 10 year plan that all these teams that have football will go FBS in 2022. Will there be an FBS in 10 years, no, but it will show when this split happens that we are ready for that second division. Pairing these schools as travel partners. 8 for basketball, 6 for football.

Montana
Montana State

Seattle (Basketball)
Portland State

Eastern Washington
Idaho

Weber State
Denver (Basketball)

Then we leave the Big Sky as is, and we have two FCS Conferences that we can schedule with out of conference to keep the TBirds and Bengals on the schedule.

Idaho State
North Dakota
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Sacramento State
Southern Utah
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. It could work. In all likelihood the idea is for the entire conference to be able to get to the 2nd tier, if a 2nd tier ever happens. However, if something like you forsee happens, I wonder what type of split will happen, if a merge occurs. I'm guessing every team in the Sky will think they should be on the "Bigger" more "Advanced" level. Who knows. I have heard that any discussion with the WAC over a merger has slowed quite a bit in the last few days. I also have heard that the WAC has made some pretty big promises to a number of Big Sky teams in an attempt to sway them. Supposedly, Hurd (the interim WAC comish) said that he will have an announcement in the next 2-3 weeks about possible football members. There is speculation that Montana, SAC, PSU, and UND are part of the discussion, of course the speculation is the same delusional drivel you get from most Vandal fans.
 
talhadfoursteals said:
Weberstguy728 said:
I think New Mexico State is going to find a home soon.

We should take the WAC on it's offer, but change the name and make a new FCS Conference. Then make public a 10 year plan that all these teams that have football will go FBS in 2022. Will there be an FBS in 10 years, no, but it will show when this split happens that we are ready for that second division. Pairing these schools as travel partners. 8 for basketball, 6 for football.

Montana
Montana State

Seattle (Basketball)
Portland State

Eastern Washington
Idaho

Weber State
Denver (Basketball)

Then we leave the Big Sky as is, and we have two FCS Conferences that we can schedule with out of conference to keep the TBirds and Bengals on the schedule.

Idaho State
North Dakota
Northern Arizona
Northern Colorado
Sacramento State
Southern Utah
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. It could work. In all likelihood the idea is for the entire conference to be able to get to the 2nd tier, if a 2nd tier ever happens. However, if something like you forsee happens, I wonder what type of split will happen, if a merge occurs. I'm guessing every team in the Sky will think they should be on the "Bigger" more "Advanced" level. Who knows. I have heard that any discussion with the WAC over a merger has slowed quite a bit in the last few days. I also have heard that the WAC has made some pretty big promises to a number of Big Sky teams in an attempt to sway them. Supposedly, Hurd (the interim WAC comish) said that he will have an announcement in the next 2-3 weeks about possible football members. There is speculation that Montana, SAC, PSU, and UND are part of the discussion, of course the speculation is the same delusional drivel you get from most Vandal fans.
Click to expand...

Hurd's got nothing. :roll: I got the following from a friend who was at the WAC meetings.

WAC is 50 tomorrow.
No formal presentation from the commissioner. :dunce:
Cannot get into detail about several issues as far as membership.
Exploring different avenues for WAC future.
Has been doing so since early March
No scenario that has not been explored.
Is it feasible to sustain conference without football, or as FBS member? ;-)
Gone east coast to west coast looking at options. :oops:
Football is not there for 2013. Could be back for 2014 or 2015.
Looking to buy time and look for options.
Focus is really on sustaining the conference as Non-football entity now.
Need to act sooner than later, but later has come.
Need to be in a decision making mode now.
There is not a drop dead date for decisions.
Answers will come soon.
Need 6 more feasible FBS programs for football, and decision would need to be made before June 1st
13/14 Academic year is not far off for planning standpoint.
Scheduling and recruiting go into play, and it's getting late in the game for that.
Definately a sense of urgency.
Needed to be done by June 30th, and that date has gone. They had no way to make decisions by that time, as info was not nearly available enough about options.
Holding off because options that they think are there may not be in position to make a move now.
Boise State will be looking for Big West membership for non-football sports, not WAC.
Will still seek out Boise State as a member in non-football moving forward, but their intent is Big West. :shock:
Will not speak about specific schools in any form.
No invitations have been issued to any schools at this time.
No answer on how long New Mexico State and Idaho could survive as independents.
Schools would need to be able to at least schedule 6 home games per year to survive as an independent.
WAC and Big Sky have had several conversations about a WAC/Big Sky merger, but it has lost steam in recent weeks.
Discussion was not about a merger, but a concept of sharing for auto qualification expansion in NCAA Tournament in basketball.
Priotirty is to make it to tomorrow. Football is still a priority, but not realistic in 2013.
Priority is now to save the WAC as a non-football entity.
FBS, 8 teams is a requirement, but the WAC is in a 2 year waiver period for that rule.
2013 is also a waiver period year.
Travel cost is an issue for expansion.
Have to sustain yourself as a league before worrying about cost as far as travel expenses involved.
Got a call from a commish of another league about taking on an entire conference for football only.
 
Did hear the WAC trying to get Seattle and Denver to start football teams. I'm not sure about regulations or NCAA protocol, but can schools start up football teams and go directly into FBS? I'm sure it can be done. Charlotte comes to mind, but anyone else has had to play a handful of seasons at a lower level. Georgia State, Old Dominion (not sure if they are for sure leaving), UTSA, I think Arkansas St.
 
The WAC is out of options. They are trying to figure out how not to appear as abandoning their existing schools. Schools are looking to get out of the WAC, not in. Who, in their right mind, would jump onto a sinking ship. They just need to find a way to disolve gracefully. :twocents:
 
with fullerton saying in the standard we have invited idaho and nmsu to be our last member what if neither join? who is our final school? do we promote a DII ? do we just say with what we have even though we dont want to? do we kick out und?
 
catcat said:
with fullerton saying in the standard we have invited idaho and nmsu to be our last member what if neither join? who is our final school? do we promote a DII ? do we just say with what we have even though we dont want to? do we kick out und?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, it would be weird if neither Idaho or NMSU don't join. Both would be far better additions than say Central Washington, Dixie State, or Humbolt State. I think UND is here to stay, so if that is the case, it might be best for the Sky to, if neither Idaho or NMSU join, to pursue a school in between Great Falls ND and the rest of the Big Sky. Maybe Drake or go after one of the Dakota's. Would be hilarious if Denver decided to field a football team again and then jumped to the Sky. Denver, to me, would be a smart choice; especially if Idaho won't concede defeat and join the Sky.
 
Hell, Fullerton can't mess with the Dakota 3!! It would be unheard of to break up that group. I mean it is a nationally recognized rivalry that nobody outside of Fargo know about.

On another note, Fullerton did say there were 5 other schools interested in joining the conference. I'm sure UVU is one of them. Would the Wolverines of Utah County be a good addition?
 
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