since there has been a lot of talk of recruiting lately on this board i will say this - I pray that no recruits nor there parents read this message board. Because honestly it's gross to hear comments of fans saying ISU will probably drop there football program within 10 years at some point. Making statements that ISU should drop down to division 2 football so ISU can be competitive. Making statements that insinuate that a player recruited and offered by ISU is not really in fact a player that is very good, because of our academic standards that player is a sub par recruit that no one else in our conference would want but since ISU can't get GREAT players because of the academic standards ISU will have to just settle for said recruit. Making statements about how the head coach should be fired. Way to go guys. Recruits and there parents who KNOW NOTHING about ISU football initially who may Google search ISU football message boards and find this link and click on it and this is what they get to read. That would sure make a great impression on a recruit wouldn't it. Keep up the great work fellas.
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On the topic of recruiting!
- Thread starter demian
- Start date
Demian:
As far as I'm concerned a fan is allowed to say whatever they wish as long as it isn't offensive, racial, or sexual in nature. Also as long as it doesn't violate the rules and regulations of the web site.
Also regarding recruits and their parents, I agree what is said on a web site could be a factor but also if a parent or recruit decides what school they want to play for based on what is said on a message board and uses that as the primary reason...well I think there is something wrong with that. Decisions should be made based on factors far more important then what a segment of fans are writing. To me that's just common sense.
PBP
As far as I'm concerned a fan is allowed to say whatever they wish as long as it isn't offensive, racial, or sexual in nature. Also as long as it doesn't violate the rules and regulations of the web site.
Also regarding recruits and their parents, I agree what is said on a web site could be a factor but also if a parent or recruit decides what school they want to play for based on what is said on a message board and uses that as the primary reason...well I think there is something wrong with that. Decisions should be made based on factors far more important then what a segment of fans are writing. To me that's just common sense.
PBP
BengalBannMan
Active member
Demand. also, in NO WAY am I insinuating that we have to go after "sub par recruits" because our academic standard is set too high by our selves. we just have to hit the lottery and get great kids who are smart AND athletic.
Uncharacteristic of you from what I've learned, you looked for the negative in the story I shared and not the positive (forgive me if I'm reading you or your comment incorrectly) what I mean to convey is that we pass on ANY kid that is even close to questionable with grades or maybe even attitude of character flaws with some things in the past. (most of the time). as with the kid who went to EWU with our us even giving him a look when we knew about him first.
ISU has some of the highest GPA for football teams, and in my mind, by FAR the best kids and nicest guys you could find. BUT most of the guys who are playing in the BIG schools are very mean tough guys who have one vision... make it to NFL. Grades only come as a means to barely pass to keep playing football in order to make it to The League. what comes with that? problems with the football players, suspensions now and then babysitting the guys, etc etc. we see it I the news now and then. ISU used to have a lot of those problems. NOW...? we don't. We have great kids that are great athletes. But most at ISU play football to get an education. Not go to class to stay on the football field... and that is one thing in my opinion that shows up in some of the level of determination on the field sometimes being at 8 and not a 10.
In Portland, we just got pushed around, not out smarter or out talented. we just got pushed around because most of their O-line thinks they have one shot in life, The League. A lot of them came from no where and are afraid to go back. Our defensive line just got out played in effort because they are playing football to get a degree. WE HAVE TO FIND SOMEWAY TO MOTIVATE THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE GREAT ENOUGH TO WIN. I know plenty of them.
Has anyone watched the documentary "Champs"? No champion pro boxer has EVER come from privilege of ANY kind or level. There has to be a deeper reason to fight and win.
As a parent you can look at ISU 2 ways.... "I want my kid at ISU, it's a safe community where he will get good grades and a degree while playing football" or, "I don't want my kid at ISU. I want him to go play somewhere he can win a national championship."
My choice as a father. I want my kid in Pocatello at Idaho State, fighting every year to do better. NO MATTER WHAT.
I love ISU! LOVE ISU! and I LOVE THOSE KIDS! I cheer like mad even when down 80-8 when I was in Vegas on the front row 50 yard line. BUT WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET A LOT OF THESE KIDS TO BE MORE MOTIVATED.
(...alright, let me have it.)
Uncharacteristic of you from what I've learned, you looked for the negative in the story I shared and not the positive (forgive me if I'm reading you or your comment incorrectly) what I mean to convey is that we pass on ANY kid that is even close to questionable with grades or maybe even attitude of character flaws with some things in the past. (most of the time). as with the kid who went to EWU with our us even giving him a look when we knew about him first.
ISU has some of the highest GPA for football teams, and in my mind, by FAR the best kids and nicest guys you could find. BUT most of the guys who are playing in the BIG schools are very mean tough guys who have one vision... make it to NFL. Grades only come as a means to barely pass to keep playing football in order to make it to The League. what comes with that? problems with the football players, suspensions now and then babysitting the guys, etc etc. we see it I the news now and then. ISU used to have a lot of those problems. NOW...? we don't. We have great kids that are great athletes. But most at ISU play football to get an education. Not go to class to stay on the football field... and that is one thing in my opinion that shows up in some of the level of determination on the field sometimes being at 8 and not a 10.
In Portland, we just got pushed around, not out smarter or out talented. we just got pushed around because most of their O-line thinks they have one shot in life, The League. A lot of them came from no where and are afraid to go back. Our defensive line just got out played in effort because they are playing football to get a degree. WE HAVE TO FIND SOMEWAY TO MOTIVATE THEM, BECAUSE THEY ARE GREAT ENOUGH TO WIN. I know plenty of them.
Has anyone watched the documentary "Champs"? No champion pro boxer has EVER come from privilege of ANY kind or level. There has to be a deeper reason to fight and win.
As a parent you can look at ISU 2 ways.... "I want my kid at ISU, it's a safe community where he will get good grades and a degree while playing football" or, "I don't want my kid at ISU. I want him to go play somewhere he can win a national championship."
My choice as a father. I want my kid in Pocatello at Idaho State, fighting every year to do better. NO MATTER WHAT.
I love ISU! LOVE ISU! and I LOVE THOSE KIDS! I cheer like mad even when down 80-8 when I was in Vegas on the front row 50 yard line. BUT WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GET A LOT OF THESE KIDS TO BE MORE MOTIVATED.
(...alright, let me have it.)
BengalBannMan said:
Oh man I am real sorry BengalBannMan I DID NOT mean that for you AT ALL. It was meant for someone who said we should "move to division 2 if we cant compete BECAUSE WE CANT GET GOOD PLAYERS BECAUSE OF OUR ACADEMIC STANDARDS" and another who said it wouldn't be a surprise to see ISU drop football in the next 10 years. I am sorry that it came that way towards you. I am sorry for coming negative. I mean that. I read your post earlier on the academic issue and that makes sense to me and I agree with you, so I did not mean for my post to come that way towards you. I probably came off overly negative towards all with my post so I am sorry to all I offended.
But man your post here is AWESOME. I agree with you on ALL points. I have seen the documentary CHAMPS, one of the GREATEST documentaries I have seen. A MUST WATCH for EVERYONE. Tyson, Bernard Hopkins and Evander Holyfield are the main figures. It is GREAT. I agree with you I WANT MY SON in Pocatello also and I want him WITH THIS COACHING STAFF.
BengalBannMan
Active member
no hard feelings ever man. I love that your son is here and I love your attitude. I WANT YOUR SON HERE TOO. I'm excited to see him play next year. we're on the right path. But we do need to help these kids find a bigger cause. they CAN do this.
BengalBannMan said:
Yeah I really think we are on the right path. Your so right they CAN do it. It is a great great conference. So much talent in this conference league wide that you have to play every game and every play with FULL effort and FULL desire/passion and FULL focus and for a FULL 4 quarters (cant sleep walk through the first 25 minutes or so, cuz it will be too late once you wake up and try to get dialed in).
BengalBannMan
Active member
Amen Brother.
BengalBannMan said:
Here is a question for you or any others, does ISU football or ISU Athletics have a universal motto or slogan or rally cry for fans and ISU member etc etc. For example Auburn has = War Eagle! USC has Fight On! Oregon has Win The Day. Arizona has Bear Down. Do we have anything like that for ISU that can be used as a encouragement or salutation or celebration cry or rallying cry etc etc
up for the challenge
Active member
Demian:
As you know, that was me making that comment about maybe we should drop down to D2 if we cannot get good players because of our ISU academic standards. I believe you misunderstood what I was saying as I was commenting on a previous post by BengalBannMan when he said we are not able to get some good players because of our academic standards. Please re-read.
I do not believe we should drop down to D2. I also believe we can get good players that meet ISU academic standards. There are plenty of good players out there that meet the ISU academic standards. With that said, that does not mean these players will go to ISU if another offer is available to them.
I really do not care how Kramer recruits anymore as most posters including myself have talked about the recruiting topic forever. This is not something new on this web-site. Everybody has their own opinions on this topic including myself. We just discuss and throw out our opinions and believe me everybody has their own opinions as there are plenty of disagreements.
Kramer is going to recruit players who he wants as he is responsible for his program. As you know, all coaches have a board and they add names and subtract names from that board when they are recruiting. Just remember something, the players on this team all have been recruited and signed by Kramer. He has no players on his team from the previous head coach that I know of.
As you know, that was me making that comment about maybe we should drop down to D2 if we cannot get good players because of our ISU academic standards. I believe you misunderstood what I was saying as I was commenting on a previous post by BengalBannMan when he said we are not able to get some good players because of our academic standards. Please re-read.
I do not believe we should drop down to D2. I also believe we can get good players that meet ISU academic standards. There are plenty of good players out there that meet the ISU academic standards. With that said, that does not mean these players will go to ISU if another offer is available to them.
I really do not care how Kramer recruits anymore as most posters including myself have talked about the recruiting topic forever. This is not something new on this web-site. Everybody has their own opinions on this topic including myself. We just discuss and throw out our opinions and believe me everybody has their own opinions as there are plenty of disagreements.
Kramer is going to recruit players who he wants as he is responsible for his program. As you know, all coaches have a board and they add names and subtract names from that board when they are recruiting. Just remember something, the players on this team all have been recruited and signed by Kramer. He has no players on his team from the previous head coach that I know of.
up for the challenge said:
"UP FOR THE CHALLNEGE" = very well said!!! I do agree there are good players available who are good students. Your correct also that they may choose to go elsewhere if they get an offer to a different school that they prefer. Yeah you are so correct about the recruiting board. There are "tiers" to that board. And yes at our level the Big Sky Conference (FCS) level for the most part in the winter and spring prior to a recruits senior year of football those schools have there BIG BOARD and they have the "elite guys" (the guys who are borderline pac 12 guys), the second tier is probably borderline Mountain West conference guys, then you get to the tier of the California High School guys. Then is the tier of high school guys from your preferred recruiting ZONES that you have ear marked for offers because you believe they are a perfect fit. Probably next is the tier of the junior college guys. Then the tier of the "Back Burner Guys" (the LOCAL IN STATE guys they are gonna revisit in january once a lot of the targets commit elsewhere), then the guys they want to invite as preffered walk ons (who ALOT of FCS rosters comprise of some of these guys who do CONTRIBUTE greatly to there teams).
up for the challenge
Active member
Per your board you explained which by the way is correct from what I have heard, You may not know this but Kramer does not recruit, contact or visit JUCO"S. He made that public to the media when he was hired. If a JUCO player is interested in playing at ISU than he expects them to contact him or his office. At that point, he will take a look at them.
Believe me, I threw my opinion to posters for years about getting some JUCO or "at need" players they call them here and most posters did not like that idea other than some. They had their reasons. Unless Kramer has changed his opinion about JUCO players he will continue with recruiting mostly high school players. He has his reasons I guess but Kramer has given scholarships to some JUCO players during his years here so it does make me wonder if he actually does seek JUCO players if there is a need.
Believe me, I threw my opinion to posters for years about getting some JUCO or "at need" players they call them here and most posters did not like that idea other than some. They had their reasons. Unless Kramer has changed his opinion about JUCO players he will continue with recruiting mostly high school players. He has his reasons I guess but Kramer has given scholarships to some JUCO players during his years here so it does make me wonder if he actually does seek JUCO players if there is a need.
up for the challenge said:
You are correct I did not know that about the JUCOS. I know last seasons recruiting class there were a handful of offers given to JUCO guys, obviously Lorenzo Terry, Courtney Crockett (was at spring practice I believe but is no longer at ISU), Ryan Wood I think was his name form an Arizona Juco (I believe signed with Portland State), Sedrick Stewart out of a juco in Minnesota. I think there was a few more. But yeah each and every coach has there own recruiting preferences and I respect that. I like juco guys, juco football is NO JOKE, there are BIG TIME players at the JUCO football level. Maybe Juco players adversely affect the APR rating. I know we have committed very very seriously to the APR rating (which I think is great) so maybe that APR rating factors JUCO players into an equation that doesn't produce a good rating. Just me guessing, I have no clue actually
up for the challenge
Active member
I am sure some posters will tell you their thoughts about JUCO''S but I will no longer discuss that subject as I have been there and done that. I was just letting you know since you brought that up about the recruiting board so you are informed. Like I said, I do not care how Kramer recruits or who he recruits as that is his program. Skippy is probably the best poster in my opinion explaining the APR's, the ISU Academic Standards, and the recruiting but other posters are good too as they have been around a very long time and seen it all.
bengalcub
Active member
demian said:
When Idaho State had APR problems they put together an academic "get well" plan to the NCAA. One of the stipulations that Idaho State enforces is that the the player must have earned an associates degree in order to transfer to ISU. Other schools can admit players without an associates degree. People also might not understand that ISU will very rarely get Division 1 transfers unless they have earned a bachelors degree and can transfer to a school that offers a graduate program in a field that they want to pursue. When a scholarship player (non graduate) at a Division 1 school transfers, I have been told that if the player earns APR points, the points go to the school that they transfer from. ISU needs the points and cannot afford to take a player that does not count toward those numbers. They can, however, take a kid who is a walk-on from a Division 1 school provided they were a full qualifier out of HS and meet ISU's enterance requirements. One reason the Bengals have struggled is because of scholarships that they lost during APR penalty years. ISU made up points by offering walk-ons in great academic standing scholarships. The kept the team from offering a kid with more athletic talent. This practice was needed to boost scores and to get in better standing with the NCAA. Most fans don't know this and they do not realize that at least the first few years, the depth on the team was often made up by kids that had excellent grades but maybe not the same talent as someone they could have recruited in the past. Another thing that the casual fan does not realize is that if a player leaves the program and does not earn a degree, they lose points from the kid. But they also gain points for the years that they are in good academic standing at a new school. I may be a touch off on some of the above, but I don't believe I am by much. Now, I know ISU has loosened academic restrictions some over the past few years. In other words they have some deviation from the original plan. But I don't think that it is a massive change. Sorry for run on paragraph, bad grammar and punctuation. I am typing on my phone and I am too lazy to edit.
bengalcub said:
That is a GREAT POST BengalCub. Thanks for all that great info regarding the APR. From what I understand is ISU faced the death penalty and this was the "get well" plan to avoid that. I truly believe it's going to pay off in the long run. But losing 10 scholarships per year during those first few years is tough because if I'm not mistaken that means we are minus approx 20 total redshirt seniors and seniors this 2016 season that a team with 65 scholarships annualy during that same time would have.
bengalcub
Active member
Thank you, but it is even tougher than that. To increase the scores, they awarded scholarships to stellar academic kids that were not on scholarship. So in essence, they lost those scholarships and depth there as well. It was a necessary evil but it does have long term consequence. What they did worked from an APR standpoint, so that was a benefit but it also cost depth and talent for the future. I forgot one thing, they also honored scholarships for kids with career ending injuries. Even if they didn't play, Idaho State gained APR points.