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Penalties

M

martymoose

Moderator
Staff member
It's the white elephant in the room....

SOU: 8-75
NAU: 11-122
TCU: 6-42
ISU: 21-209
MSU: 15-151

We're sitting at 119th of 120 teams in FCS for penalties with 119.8 per game.

Dare I say it cost us the MSU game?
 
My intent is not to bash anyone on my first (or second) post on a rival fan forum, but I want to ask a question from a concerned fan. What's with all the chop blocks on engaged defenders. I would imagine the pistol and all the mis-direction creates some opportunities to get defenders out of position as opposed to a more pro-style attack. But seriously, I'm surprised the Cats didn't have at least one career-ending injury from Saturday. It seems like your coach is a straight-up guy, but he needs to get control of this aspect before someone gets seriously hurt.
 
In addition, the MSU & UM forum boards are claiming PSU plays dirty, evidence all our penalties. They claim we chop block, cut block and our coach teaches and encourages dirty play. Doesn't matter that most the penalties were not personal fouls, they just see the number of penalties and assume. Agree the game could have been a win for PSU if there had been fewer penalties.
 
Let's just say I'm very glad none of our players were seriously injured, and I'll be rooting for the Griz next weekend.
 
A Montana State fan rooting for Montana? Gee, does that mean hell has finally frozen over? Gee willikers! :roll:

Maybe you feel like Sgt. Shultz not knowing anything about this. I know that the vast number of penalties called on the Viks must be either legitimate calls or illegitimate calls. I would love to see a statistical analysis of the season at the end of the season. One that shows which calls are unquestionably legitimate, which calls are ambiguous and which calls are clear outliers.

Maybe they call a fair game among traditional, committed conference members, but we've had issues with big sky referees in the past with illegitimate and highly-questionable calls in both football and basketball. I know they have a reputation among us as an unscrupulous lot.

So in light of the historical evidence, your claims do not persuade. The best test for this would to be to install non-biased referees from an impartial conference for all Portland State and Sacramento State games and note the penalty statistics afterward. But the big sky conference would never allow it as they are quite sure they would be exposed.

I doubt the Viks "play dirty." Tired of the bullcrap, they "play hard." "Rough-n-ready." "Gritty." "Comin' at you." Our experience has shown that the bias is not only against Portland State but Sacramento State as well. And I for one am sick of it. I would rather play as an Independent that be affiliated with such a despicable, low-down conference as this.

We need to gain cooperation of the Portland police and in our last home game (before leaving the conference), have the fans surround the referees and openly humiliate them. Have pretty young women paint clown faces on them. Then strip them down to their underwear and have baby diaper pinned on them. Photograph them, publish the photographs. Headline: A Modicum of Justice

Maybe the Viks are playing like they have to win in spite of referee bias to surmount their illegitimate calls. Pretty easy to do. Just call holding on the offense after gaining a difficult first down. That really knocks the wind out of the sails of any team. They are easy calls because they are ambiguous. So are chop-block and pass interference calls. So depart and take your false claims with you. You have no logical basis.

So whatever happens, happens. Expect more of it to come because they're awakening and playing spirited football. I believe that is what your true objection. The Viks are throwing down the gauntlet to work for justice. May that brand of justice come. May the big sky bias be overcome.
 
I looked at the stats for the PSU vs MSU game. The teams were even on personal fouls, 5 each. The breakdown is as followed:
1st Q. PSU had 2 personal fouls and 1 roughing the passer
MSU had 1 personal foul
2nd Q. PSU had a clipping and crackback call
MSU had 1 personal foul, 1 roughing the passer & 1 face mask call
3rd Q. No personal fouls for either team
4th Q. PSU had no personal fouls
MSU had 1 personal foul

If PSU plays dirty then so does MSU.
 
Coach Burton also threatened to bench anyone who got a penalty. So it's not like he is taking it lightly or encouraging dirty play.
 
DustRunner said:
I heard that he implemented that during the game. Anyone see a player being benched for a penalty?
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CRICKETS.....chirp........chirp.........chip

in the post game interview he said that the players need to play smarter, and read how the refs are calling the game. in other words dirty play is acceptable if the refs let you get away with it.

I thought a lot of Burton (past tense) but have decided that he wants his teams to play dirty so now you have the rep he wants.
 
cats2506 said:
DustRunner said:
I heard that he implemented that during the game. Anyone see a player being benched for a penalty?
Click to expand...
CRICKETS.....chirp........chirp.........chip

in the post game interview he said that the players need to play smarter, and read how the refs are calling the game. in other words dirty play is acceptable if the refs let you get away with it.

I thought a lot of Burton (past tense) but have decided that he wants his teams to play dirty so now you have the rep he wants.
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You must be a mind reader if you take his post game comments as dirty play is acceptable. It couldn't possibly mean that some games are called a little tighter than other, especially in the secondary where the majority of our calls that have had a big affect on the game. Oh, and isn't Burton a former pac 10 defensive back and secondary coach? Yep, he must mean that dirty play is acceptable. :ohno:
 
I loved the way our team played---with grit and spirit. I loved the blocked punts and the pouch kick-off recovery. I reject your attempt to foist a negative reputation upon those deserving of praise. By having done so, you have not only revealed your unease but have also incurred yourself a reputation as one falsely defaming the reputations of others. Looks like we're comin' after you and you're looking back with dread and concern. :tothehand:
 
BroadwayVik: Watch the tape dude. They had every chop block on a replay for all to see.

I didn't say anything about the numerous dubious calls by Big Sky officials that went against both teams on Saturday. I just think your OL were clearly out to hurt someone.
 
So apparently it's A-OK then to pull one of our guys' facemask, and also to shove someone after he's out of bounds (both of these were extremely apparent), just because our O-lIne is making a few bad moves on blocking? Yep, I can tell that we're the only team that was dirty.

And, as far as I'm concerned, the Bobcats had five personal foul penalties. We had five. 5 = 5 = 75 yards lost for both teams. Get over it; both teams played "dirty". We get the point that you're not happy with chop blocks. I wouldn't be either. But it's not like MSU played perfectly inside the rules of the game.
 
BroadwayVik said:
I loved the way our team played---with grit and spirit. I loved the blocked punts and the pouch kick-off recovery. I reject your attempt to foist a negative reputation upon those deserving of praise. By having done so, you have not only revealed your unease but have also incurred yourself a reputation as one falsely defaming the reputations of others. Looks like we're comin' after you and you're looking back with dread and concern. :tothehand:
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Its good that you like having the reputation as the dirtiest team in the FCS because that is the rep you have now, and until Burton pulls his head out of his ass and plays real football you wont get any respect.
 
Please. This is not helpful. It serves no useful purpose. You're being pettily political. Go verbally attack the mirror. Let's just play football.

Sell it somewhere else because It isn't washing here. You do not persuade. You're rather acting like Notre Dame did when Oregon State pummeled them under Dennis Erickson. Calling people names, labeling them. How dare they do that. Cursed they be for their spewing forth of false claims. They had a decade of losing after that. Like them, you have earned yourselves a reputation as false-accusers, name-callers, label makers. Keep it up.

What? Do we need to contact the ADL? You besmirch the reputation of Coach Nigel Burton. Does the race card need to be applied? You reveal that you rather need to pull your head out of a personal dark place and look into the light of day.

Nigel's great. He's a fine leader of young men. And he is just getting started as a head coach. Let him rev up the engine a bit more, figure out the secondary, promote the program and himself as a coach to higher heights. I expect we'll be calling him Nigel "Breakthrough" Burton when all is said and done.

Go Viks!!
 
Former WalkOn said:
BroadwayVik: Watch the tape dude. They had every chop block on a replay for all to see.

I didn't say anything about the numerous dubious calls by Big Sky officials that went against both teams on Saturday. I just think your OL were clearly out to hurt someone.
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"They had every chop block on replay." How many do you claim? I looked through the play-by-play. PSU's had 3 personal fouls when on offense. Of those, 1 was for a "crackback" penalty. "Crackback" cannot be called on an offensive lineman since it is a block by an offensive player who is usually spread out away from the main body of the formation and runs back in towards the ball at the snap, blocking an opponent back toward the original position of the ball at the snap. The two other personal fouls were not specified. Do you really know what a chop block is?

I agree with the other posts here. MSU had 5 personal fouls too. Seems like they were trying to hurt our QB and knock him out of the game and were willing to take personal fouls to do it. Dirty football.
 
VikThunderous said:
Former WalkOn said:
BroadwayVik: Watch the tape dude. They had every chop block on a replay for all to see.

I didn't say anything about the numerous dubious calls by Big Sky officials that went against both teams on Saturday. I just think your OL were clearly out to hurt someone.
Click to expand...

"They had every chop block on replay." How many do you claim? I looked through the play-by-play. PSU's had 3 personal fouls when on offense. Of those, 1 was for a "crackback" penalty. "Crackback" cannot be called on an offensive lineman since it is a block by an offensive player who is usually spread out away from the main body of the formation and runs back in towards the ball at the snap, blocking an opponent back toward the original position of the ball at the snap. The two other personal fouls were not specified. Do you really know what a chop block is?

I agree with the other posts here. MSU had 5 personal fouls too. Seems like they were trying to hurt our QB and knock him out of the game and were willing to take personal fouls to do it. Dirty football.
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I've watched the game plenty, and yes I know the rules. Two replays showed your Oline cutting an engaged defender inside the tackles, and both were called. how many times did it happen when nobody was looking?

As for MSU, only one of the three "late" hits were legit calls in my mind. (The first late hit on the quarterback, where our d-lineman had plenty of time to pull up.) The other two were right when the pass was thrown and and o-o-b play that was very close. Another personal foul was clearly in retaliation, when or NG went after one of your guys after the whistle. (As an official, I realize you almost always see the retaliation. BTW he was promptly pulled from the game by Coach Ash for the rest of the series.)

The other was a face mask, and as a former D-End I know these things happen occasionally on the edges, and it clearly wasn't intentional or malicious.

I didn't see any PSU players being removed, although it appeared that Coach Burton was pretty agitated after the 5th call and did issue a warning to his players and coaches that a benching may happen.

This was a physical and intense game from the start. Not once have I blamed any of this on Coach Burton, although I do question the techniques being taught the interior line. Diving at legs at the line of scrimmage is just dangerous.

I'll be watching closely when PSU travels to Missoula this weekend. If none of this stuff happens I'll be the first to report back that maybe this has all been overblown. Bu it's happened before against UM, so we'll see.
 
BroadwayVik said:
Please. This is not helpful. It serves no useful purpose. You're being pettily political. Go verbally attack the mirror. Let's just play football.

Sell it somewhere else because It isn't washing here. You do not persuade. You're rather acting like Notre Dame did when Oregon State pummeled them under Dennis Erickson. Calling people names, labeling them. How dare they do that. Cursed they be for their spewing forth of false claims. They had a decade of losing after that. Like them, you have earned yourselves a reputation as false-accusers, name-callers, label makers. Keep it up.

What? Do we need to contact the ADL? You besmirch the reputation of Coach Nigel Burton. Does the race card need to be applied? You reveal that you rather need to pull your head out of a personal dark place and look into the light of day.

Nigel's great. He's a fine leader of young men. And he is just getting started as a head coach. Let him rev up the engine a bit more, figure out the secondary, promote the program and himself as a coach to higher heights. I expect we'll be calling him Nigel "Breakthrough" Burton when all is said and done.

Go Viks!!
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Ger real, he is the HC of the most penalized team in the BSC, one that uses cut blocks prolifically and employs designed chop blocks. All the shoves in the back after the plays, and you wanna play the RACE card. Oh poor PSU, I could give a crap what color you coach is, if he teaches the tactics that I saw in the MSU game he is DIRTY.
 
Frankly, this whole discussion is rather pointless, isn't it? You're going to root for your team and I'm going to root for mine. We both see our own team as the good guys and the opposition as perhaps less so.

Rather, shouldn't we be teaming up against Montana? I prefer you guys to them. They play real dirty under the guise of playing clean. They like, for example, to tackle our players when they are already out-of-bounds. That should be a 15-yard penalty but when they do it, the damn big sky referees do not call it. But they certainly will call it when there is any possibility of a call against us, though. Dishonest, dishonorable and disreputable. That is big sky officiating.
 
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