Poll: No More FBS Games?

[weberwildcat]

my thoughts on fbs opponents and why i think we should stop playing them or at least never again to have 2 on a single schedule.

now that we have become a respectable/relevant program on the national map, playing 2 fbs games per year does more harm than good. each year since 2008 we have had high hopes of making the playoffs and realistically the fans these days expect a playoff appearance.

2 fbs games per year is known as scheduling yourself out of the playoffs. do we need fbs payouts more than playoff appearances? this thread would not matter if we were idaho state knowing we wont win so 2 money games would make sense.

2010:
last season we had a great shot at the playoffs being from the big sky which is one of the top conferences annually. we finished 6-5. had we played no fbs opponents and replaced them with 2 fcs teams such as cal poly and suu and won those games we would hav been 8-3 with losses to sac state, ewu, and msu. ewu won the national title, msu was top ten and sac spent some time ranked or near it i cant recall. 8-3 we would have a chance to get in as we know 3 teams can get in from the sky. but 6-5? no chance.

playing both BC and Texas Tech im sure were good payouts. could we have gotten by on just 1 big pay out? i think we can. even the difference between 6-5 and 7-4 would get us closer. remember 2009?

2009:
we finished 7-4 and made the playoffs and everyone was pretty surprised. i think we found out that only 2 times in 30 yrs have a 4 loss team made the playoffs. we played 2 fbs teams and lost both. to make things worse they werent even against high payout programs. but they were against winnable fbs teams - wyo and csu. i realize we could have or should have won one game if not both. but in the end we lost both. had we swapped the wyo game for an fcs win we would have been a lock for a playoff spot with an 8-3 record that year.

2008:
the year i started to care about who was on our schedule. i learned quickly that playing a home non-DI game is as bad or worse than playing an fbs. non-DI gets you a win but it is not factored in by the playoff committee. it might as well be a bye week even if you win 70-3 against humbolt state. just like 2009 we had 2 respectable games against fbs teams - hawaii/utah. hawaii you could say we maybe should have won after dominating them for 3 quarters. but is the risk of beating hawaii worth it? had we beaten north dakata state instead of playing utah or hawaii we might have been 10-2 instead of 9-3. but when the committe factors in non-DI's we were really 7-3 that year prior to the playoffs. 1 fcs loss that year.

2011:
we have wyo and usu. both are winnable games. both are regoinal games. both close we should have plenty of fans at both. am i still against these games? yes. beating wyo and/or usu can do great things for us if we win. but we have more to lose by playing them at all. i think we can win, i was at wyo and csu both in 2009.

why not just play an oklahoma type team and get the 800k to million range payout and have an extra chance to get a win against an fcs team? an fcs ooc win is worth more to the committe than an fbs loss even a close one.




we now know we cant afford to play non DI's but how feasible are the fbs games? i believe 1 is, most fcs teams need the money. so why not play one 500-1 million dollar game instead of 2 lower paying money games? we need to think about the playoffs when we create the schedule. give the players on the field the fair chance because they deserve it.

anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

 

[weberwildcat]

scheduling issues

i know scheduling is an issue with wsu football.

we play 11 games. 4 home ooc games. we need at least a 5th home game because 4 home games would sound really lame to us season tkt holders.

so 2 fbs away games, 4 away big sky, 4 home big sky leaves us with just 1 more game to work with. we cant play a road fcs game because we need another home game that has to be fcs because we surely cant play 0 fcs ooc games.

if my calculations are accurate we currently owe davis, suu and maybe even cal poly. so that is just about every western fcs team. there just arent enough around here to schedule. travel costs in fcs are just too high to play eastern teams. we hosted cal poly in 2009 and davis in 2010. common sense would be that we owe both of these teams. we cant return the favor if we cant play an fcs road ooc game except for every 4th year when we have our 12 game schedule but if we did, this would also mean the chance to ever get a 6th or even 7th home game on the 12 game yr is never going to happen unless we give up and start scheduling non-DI's.

maybe we worked out a deal because of the cal poly playoff game in 2008 that we do not owe them. but davis? i think we must be oweing them before they would come back not including how the scheduling turns out now that they are joining the big sky.

suu you ask? we played at suu in 2006 and no game since. their can only be one reason, yes? we owe them a game. we have never had the chance to go there because we cant fit it in despite the fact that we have played them 17 times and 4 in a row up to 2006. they got a new coach in 2008 so maybe he didnt care as much about us owing them a game since he wasnt there in 2006 and they probably want to get the rivalry going again now that suu is joining the big sky. suu vs wsu could be one of the biggest rivalries in the big sky soon but you gotta be playing each other first.

 

[hawkssb04]

As a fan, your points are very understandable. However, WSU NEEDS to schedule those FBS games.

Football cost the university $1,755,938 in 2010 and WSU was only able to bring in enough revenue to cover about 56% of those expenditures. That leaves a $772,613 bill to cover.

WSU estimates it brought in about $153,927 in advertising and sponsorships in 2010. Between the Boston College and Texas Tech games, the school only brought in a total of $420,000 in guarantees.

That left almost $200,000 WSU had to subsidize to cover all remaining expenditures.

Universities can't afford to subsidize athletic programs in excess for extended periods of time or else they run the risk of losing the programs altogether (like Weber State almost did in 1994).

Scheduling just one "big" money game against an Oklahoma or a Texas simply wont cover the costs. You see this problem with many FCS schools and there is actually a lot of competition to gain the right to schedule the biggest FBS programs. All those little schools want a bite out of the big schools.

Getting those extra one or two wins in before conference play isn't going to help bring in substantial cash. WSU, riding a padded record, could sell out Stewart Stadium every home game and it would still be forced to schedule at least one "money game" (which seem to increase every year).

In a perfect world where everything had a rosy glow, the Wildcats could beat up on lesser opponents instead of having to hit the road and play big schools, which are almost always guaranteed losses. While fans are fantasizing about that, the grown ups are frantically trying to pay the bills.

 

[ajwildcat]

As a fan, your points are very understandable. However, WSU NEEDS to schedule those FBS games.

Football cost the university $1,755,938 in 2010 and WSU was only able to bring in enough revenue to cover about 56% of those expenditures. That leaves a $772,613 bill to cover.

WSU estimates it brought in about $153,927 in advertising and sponsorships in 2010. Between the Boston College and Texas Tech games, the school only brought in a total of $420,000 in guarantees.

That left almost $200,000 WSU had to subsidize to cover all remaining expenditures.

Universities can't afford to subsidize athletic programs in excess for extended periods of time or else they run the risk of losing the programs altogether (like Weber State almost did in 1994).

Scheduling just one "big" money game against an Oklahoma or a Texas simply wont cover the costs. You see this problem with many FCS schools and there is actually a lot of competition to gain the right to schedule the biggest FBS programs. All those little schools want a bite out of the big schools.

Getting those extra one or two wins in before conference play isn't going to help bring in substantial cash. WSU, riding a padded record, could sell out Stewart Stadium every home game and it would still be forced to schedule at least one "money game" (which seem to increase every year).

In a perfect world where everything had a rosy glow, the Wildcats could beat up on lesser opponents instead of having to hit the road and play big schools, which are almost always guaranteed losses. While fans are fantasizing about that, the grown ups are frantically trying to pay the bills.

There would not be such a big shortfall in $$ if the marketing dept & friends had actually been doing their damn jobs these last 10+ years. There is NO excuse as to why WSU cant average 17k+ per home game and that my friends would go a long ways in raising more $$. :nod:
Besides how much of the before mentioned costs are scholarship related?

 

[hawkssb04]

As a fan, your points are very understandable. However, WSU NEEDS to schedule those FBS games.

Football cost the university $1,755,938 in 2010 and WSU was only able to bring in enough revenue to cover about 56% of those expenditures. That leaves a $772,613 bill to cover.

WSU estimates it brought in about $153,927 in advertising and sponsorships in 2010. Between the Boston College and Texas Tech games, the school only brought in a total of $420,000 in guarantees.

That left almost $200,000 WSU had to subsidize to cover all remaining expenditures.

Universities can't afford to subsidize athletic programs in excess for extended periods of time or else they run the risk of losing the programs altogether (like Weber State almost did in 1994).

Scheduling just one "big" money game against an Oklahoma or a Texas simply wont cover the costs. You see this problem with many FCS schools and there is actually a lot of competition to gain the right to schedule the biggest FBS programs. All those little schools want a bite out of the big schools.

Getting those extra one or two wins in before conference play isn't going to help bring in substantial cash. WSU, riding a padded record, could sell out Stewart Stadium every home game and it would still be forced to schedule at least one "money game" (which seem to increase every year).

In a perfect world where everything had a rosy glow, the Wildcats could beat up on lesser opponents instead of having to hit the road and play big schools, which are almost always guaranteed losses. While fans are fantasizing about that, the grown ups are frantically trying to pay the bills.

There would not be such a big shortfall in $$ if the marketing dept & friends had actually been doing their damn jobs these last 10+ years. There is NO excuse as to why WSU cant average 17k+ per home game and that my friends would go a long ways in raising more $$. :nod:
Besides how much of the before mentioned costs are scholarship related?

Scholarships are included in the 56% the university covers directly, mostly from student fees.

And there are plenty of excuses as to why WSU doesn't averaged 17K per home game. This isn't unique to the past 10+ years either. Weber State has NEVER averaged 17k per home game in a season in the entire history of its program. Not only does WSU have the obvious disadvantage of being in a small market, it is also a commuter school, where most of the student body has little sense of attachment to the university.

Then to beat the dead horse, Weber State is in a unique location where it has to compete with three much larger universities that have dominated said small market for decades. WSU athletic directors, marketing directors and even university presidents themselves have been trying to solve this supposed "marketing problem" fans have complained about for 25 years. It's not that school officials aren't doing their jobs in this regard. Trust me, they are. It's like trying to catch a fart in the wind.

Educate yourself on the issue a little more. Schedule an appointment and sit down with VP of Administrative Services Norm Tarbox. He will do a much better job of explaining this than I can.

 

[weberwildcat]

Your entire post was beating a dead horse as far as this fan message board goes. Most are aware of the issues on here but blaming Marketing is the first place to look. The last few years there really hasn't been a department which makes it look much worse to a casual observer. There was a marketing department lead who was fired and still has not been replaced. That must have been 3-4 years back. I think our fans would not respond poorly to strong leadership. We see that no one is in charge. I don't know who Tarbox is but I don't see his name in the Athletic Department directory.

 

[hawkssb04]

Your entire post was beating a dead horse as far as this fan message board goes. Most are aware of the issues on here but blaming Marketing is the first place to look. The last few years there really hasn't been a department which makes it look much worse to a casual observer. There was a marketing department lead who was fired and still has not been replaced. That must have been 3-4 years back. I think our fans would not respond poorly to strong leadership. We see that no one is in charge. I don't know who Tarbox is but I don't see his name in the Athletic Department directory.

Once again, you are either misinformed or haven't taken the time to do proper research before forming an argument.

WSU has had a marketing director named Paul Grua for six years, until this year he was promoted to Media Relations Director. The current marketing director is Ron Goch.

Also, Norm Tarbox isn't technically a member of the athletic department. He handles all of the university's finances and works in the administrative building, thus the "administrative" in his title.

You blowhards can continue to blame "marketing" as the main issue, and I'm sure fans will continue to do so as long as WSU has a football program. The truth of the matter is, the financial situation is far too complex, and a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances is why Weber State football has never and WILL never sell out football games (or even basketball games) for continuous stretches of time. It doesn't matter what marketing "masterminds" you bring in. History has proven this.

 

[ajwildcat]

Your entire post was beating a dead horse as far as this fan message board goes. Most are aware of the issues on here but blaming Marketing is the first place to look. The last few years there really hasn't been a department which makes it look much worse to a casual observer. There was a marketing department lead who was fired and still has not been replaced. That must have been 3-4 years back. I think our fans would not respond poorly to strong leadership. We see that no one is in charge. I don't know who Tarbox is but I don't see his name in the Athletic Department directory.

Once again, you are either misinformed or haven't taken the time to do proper research before forming an argument.

WSU has had a marketing director named Paul Grua for six years, until this year he was promoted to Media Relations Director. The current marketing director is Ron Goch.

Also, Norm Tarbox isn't technically a member of the athletic department. He handles all of the university's finances and works in the administrative building, thus the "administrative" in his title.

You blowhards can continue to blame "marketing" as the main issue, and I'm sure fans will continue to do so as long as WSU has a football program. The truth of the matter is, the financial situation is far too complex, and a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances is why Weber State football has never and WILL never sell out football games (or even basketball games) for continuous stretches of time. It doesn't matter what marketing "masterminds" you bring in. History has proven this.

And that's the exact type of negative "dead" thinking they need to replace at WSU. Thanks for proving my point that WSU needs NEW blood and NEW vision. :clap: They have had WAY too much DEAD weight up there for FAR too long. :dead:

 

[Weber Pirate]

And there are plenty of excuses as to why WSU doesn't averaged 17K per home game. This isn't unique to the past 10+ years either. Weber State has NEVER averaged 17k per home game in a season in the entire history of its program. Not only does WSU have the obvious disadvantage of being in a small market, it is also a commuter school, where most of the student body has little sense of attachment to the university.

Then to beat the dead horse, Weber State is in a unique location where it has to compete with three much larger universities that have dominated said small market for decades. WSU athletic directors, marketing directors and even university presidents themselves have been trying to solve this supposed "marketing problem" fans have complained about for 25 years. It's not that school officials aren't doing their jobs in this regard. Trust me, they are. It's like trying to catch a fart in the wind.

As you say, there are plenty of excuses and when you have one, it fits for everything. When I was younger we would average around 9k per game at Basketball games. There is no reason that we can't do it again, except for many people believe that there is too much competition, too many other thing for people to do compared to then, and etc, etc, etc. Instead of looking for excuses, why doesn't the athletic dpt tell the public what they are going to do, and then actually do it. I was told point blank that there was going to be a big marketing push for the new scoreboard in the DEE. I never heard or saw anything about it. We here on the board have MANY great ideas and would be willing to help bring them to fruition, but all we see is lack of direction, lack of willingness, and a lack of actually listening to your target audience. Most of the ideas that we, people on the board, could come up with would actually cost the university very little. BTW don't tell me it wont work because it was a group of concerned citizens and a VERY dedicated football coach that SAVED WILDCAT FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I get very sick of the CAN'T attitude in the athletic dpt when the attitude should be HOW can I accomplish a project or goal. The athletic dpt has a Wildcat Club which has a board of directors. THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE WILDCAT CLUB ACTUALLY DO NOTHING!!!! They attend meetings once a month and do nothing else.

I could rant all day, but it would do nothing, so I will end with this, GO WILDCATS!!!!!! :twocents:

 

[WSUFootballer]

Your entire post was beating a dead horse as far as this fan message board goes. Most are aware of the issues on here but blaming Marketing is the first place to look. The last few years there really hasn't been a department which makes it look much worse to a casual observer. There was a marketing department lead who was fired and still has not been replaced. That must have been 3-4 years back. I think our fans would not respond poorly to strong leadership. We see that no one is in charge. I don't know who Tarbox is but I don't see his name in the Athletic Department directory.

Once again, you are either misinformed or haven't taken the time to do proper research before forming an argument.

WSU has had a marketing director named Paul Grua for six years, until this year he was promoted to Media Relations Director. The current marketing director is Ron Goch.

Also, Norm Tarbox isn't technically a member of the athletic department. He handles all of the university's finances and works in the administrative building, thus the "administrative" in his title.

You blowhards can continue to blame "marketing" as the main issue, and I'm sure fans will continue to do so as long as WSU has a football program. The truth of the matter is, the financial situation is far too complex, and a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances is why Weber State football has never and WILL never sell out football games (or even basketball games) for continuous stretches of time. It doesn't matter what marketing "masterminds" you bring in. History has proven this.

Once again, you are either misinformed or haven't taken the time to do proper research before forming an argument. Kim, the last marketing director was "layed off" about 3 years ago. Paul wasn't the marketing director for 6 years but he was the assistant for the majority of those 6 years. I met them both over the years.

 

[PURPLEFORLIFE]

Utah Pirate, no disrepsect here, but why are you blaming a volunteer board? Blame the head of the group. There is no reason why the WCC isn't bringing in more $$$, having more activities, and most importantly creating a stronger and larger club. But the problem isn't with the board, but with the director. As for Marketing, same issue. Yes Paul has had a lot to do with it, but was never given any power to act. Believe me, Paul does a good job and is in a much better area. I'm thinking we should give Gouch a chance before we attack him, but he better start moving pretty quick here. I'm one who can always see that there is a tremendous amount of potential that is wasted yearly by Weber State. The problem isn't just a department issue, but a university wide issue. It is a matter of attitude and Weber's sucks. It seems like they have all given up. WSUSA is run by idiots, I think Stalin is in charge of Alumni Affairs, and finally there is the ongoing issue with Marketing. Gouch can't allow himself to be sucked into the "WE ARE A FUCKING COMMUNITY COLLEGE" excuse!! Look past it and dream big. Shit Weber needs to clean house.

 

[ajwildcat]

Utah Pirate, no disrepsect here, but why are you blaming a volunteer board? Blame the head of the group. There is no reason why the WCC isn't bringing in more $$$, having more activities, and most importantly creating a stronger and larger club. But the problem isn't with the board, but with the director. As for Marketing, same issue. Yes Paul has had a lot to do with it, but was never given any power to act. Believe me, Paul does a good job and is in a much better area. I'm thinking we should give Gouch a chance before we attack him, but he better start moving pretty quick here. I'm one who can always see that there is a tremendous amount of potential that is wasted yearly by Weber State. The problem isn't just a department issue, but a university wide issue. It is a matter of attitude and Weber's sucks. It seems like they have all given up. WSUSA is run by idiots, I think Stalin is in charge of Alumni Affairs, and finally there is the ongoing issue with Marketing. Gouch can't allow himself to be sucked into the "WE ARE A fudging COMMUNITY COLLEGE" excuse!! Look past it and dream big. crap Weber needs to clean house.

Here we go again opcorn:

 

[n.ogdencat]

I wasn't going to post, but ripping on WSUSA and Marketing are two of my favorite things to do. If Weber really wants to increase attendance they need to invest a little more time, effort, and money into two areas. First, the student body and second the community. The area that hurts the students the most is WSUSA's advisors. How on earth can they look at themselves in the mirror and not realize how big of failures they are? Future alumni membership in clubs, associations, and organizations starts when the students are in school. Does anyone at Weber get that?

Next...Marketing...ever since Chad left, Weber's marketing has been POOR to Medicore at best. The last four years there is no excuse. Championship calibre teams, that nobody knows about. Granted, there wasn't anyone running the marketing and also, Brad was the SID. Goch best getting his ass moving if he doesn't want to be seen as another Kim, Brad, or Bob.

 

[WSUnPurple1]

Clean house is right...

Bovee had his chance when he was hired...

hawks why don't you give another stab at 1st and 2nd team All conference predictions for bball '11-'12, you were so spot on for last season I'd love to hear em. You goin to tell us HarrieL, Dean, and Autry will be 1st teamers

 

[ogdengodfather]

I find it funny that this fan board is practically dead until someone mentions marketing, the Wildcat club, etc.. then this place goes crazy. Maybe those lurkers who work inside of WSU athletics should take notes on what the general public sees, and instead of getting so damn defensive, maybe get off your A$$ and do your JOB. If certain people that worked up there had a passion for WSU sports and not just their paycheck, then things would change. :thumb:

 

[talhadfoursteals]

Hell Weber should only play FBS games against teams like Idalol, Utah State, New Mexico State, San Jose State, La Tech, the entire SB, and the MAC. In other words, teams that should all be FCS anyway.

 

[weberwildcat]

this thread really isnt taking the path i had planned. i was hoping others would say they want to see more opportunites for playoffs than opportunities for money games.

my thoughts on the marketing...chad was amazing. he did much with little if that is they way it goes based on the complicated budget as someone called it. i dont think Hawks has been around wsu long enough to have known how chad gerrity was. how come he was able to do good things better than the rest? also you cant disrespect paul. according to wsu athletics job titles the next director of marketing after kim is the new Goch guy. if i am not mistaken paul and ben were both "Asst. Director Marketing & Promotions". if i am mistaken then it was because there was no official announcment after kim was fired.

i think there is hope with the new guy. paul has been upgraded. we have a new director of marketing. minus the attendance we would like to see isn't it great we havent really had anything to complain about on the hardwood and gridiron for years?

our coaches have done an outstanding job in both sports for half a decade now. the stadium upgrades are proof of this.

my only complaint other than i do not like 2 fbs games obviously would be a student marketing focus/campaign. i realize this may not the biggest concern of the athletic department as there is no cash return from increasing student numbers at games but it is a must. the members of this forum want atmosphere and a large crowds that our teams are worthy of. i hate to talk about the team up north as most of you think it is annoying but why do you think they can get such huge crowds for RPI 300+ and non DI's so consistently? because the atmosphere is fun. doesnt matter if your gonna beat up on montana high by 40 points.

 

[PURPLEFORLIFE]

All they are is taking up a seat and collecting a pay check. Don't try to email me. I'm not interested till someone new takes over and actually cares. Ridiculous, pathetic, mediocre, and sad.

 

[WeberCompliance]

I'll make two points:

1) Regarding playing to FBS games: It's not as simple as you all make it out to be in finding one big money game. This is Jerry's goal, but the huge payouts are few and far between (even schools from the same BCS conference have vastly different figures and every FCS school obviously wants to play the team with the biggest guarantee, so it becomes a supply and demand issue). When he took over, there were no FBS games on the schedule for the 2010 season (but 2011 was done). He took Texas Tech because they were the first school that worked with our schedule and we got Boston College only because Hofstra dropped its football program. He is now trying to plan out the long term plan for FBS games to try and play just one, but he has a number that he has to get every year from guarantees, and that number is usually higher than what you can get from one game.

2) Regarding marketing, give Ron a chance. He has a very impressive resume, including successful stops at Utah, Tennessee, and Washington. Paul was basically forced into marketing a few years back because of budget cuts that required shifting staff around, and and he did a good job considering it was a completely different area that he had to learn on the job. I think we saw strides last year in improving the relationship with students and marketing as a whole. The new Purple Pak advisor is a former WSU student-athlete, so I imagine those efforts will continue to grow. Jerry is trying very hard to fight "The Weber Way" attitude, but it takes time. I think everyone can agree that he's accomplished a lot in less than 2 years (new scoreboard, new football field, various other facility improvements), and I don't have any reason to think that won't continue to happen.

 

[hawkssb04]

I'll make two points:

1) Regarding playing to FBS games: It's not as simple as you all make it out to be in finding one big money game. This is Jerry's goal, but the huge payouts are few and far between (even schools from the same BCS conference have vastly different figures and every FCS school obviously wants to play the team with the biggest guarantee, so it becomes a supply and demand issue). When he took over, there were no FBS games on the schedule for the 2010 season (but 2011 was done). He took Texas Tech because they were the first school that worked with our schedule and we got Boston College only because Hofstra dropped its football program. He is now trying to plan out the long term plan for FBS games to try and play just one, but he has a number that he has to get every year from guarantees, and that number is usually higher than what you can get from one game.

2) Regarding marketing, give Ron a chance. He has a very impressive resume, including successful stops at Utah, Tennessee, and Washington. Paul was basically forced into marketing a few years back because of budget cuts that required shifting staff around, and and he did a good job considering it was a completely different area that he had to learn on the job. I think we saw strides last year in improving the relationship with students and marketing as a whole. The new Purple Pak advisor is a former WSU student-athlete, so I imagine those efforts will continue to grow. Jerry is trying very hard to fight "The Weber Way" attitude, but it takes time. I think everyone can agree that he's accomplished a lot in less than 2 years (new scoreboard, new football field, various other facility improvements), and I don't have any reason to think that won't continue to happen.

Word.