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Post scoring struggles

hawkssb04

hawkssb04

Active member
Oh where, oh where has Kyle Tresnak gone? Is there a reason he his having such a hard time establishing himself this season? I think it would be unfair to say he's taken a step back from last year, as he doesn't have the ball in his hands as much, but offensively, he seems to have lost his mojo. Any good explanations out there? Is our struggle running Randy's offense against the zone the main culprit? Ready, go!
 
We are getting zoned to death. Teams are packing it in on him and making it tough for him to get touches. Last night they were not letting him post up and were set on denying the entry pass. Joel got a few touches on the right block but not much for Tres.
 
He just looks tentative as hell. Late in the 2nd half He had one fumble as he wasn't ready for a pass near the hoop, & another awkward high post catch he couldn't get rid of the ball quick enough & nearly threw it away. I thought Mahoney had made his way onto the floor some how. Zone or not he's been a disappointment this season & I'm pulling for him to break through soon.
 
He seems solid against man coverage. However, zones and double teams give him fits. He isn't quick enough to split the DT or athletic enough to jump over them. ISU was bringing the DT from the off side. That was leaving the corner three open, and we hit a good percentage of those. I guess you could say that his play was effective in that regard. He is passing out of the post much better this year. His rebounding was tremendous last night. So was Joel's. :twocents:
 
The post is our advantage and we are giving up that edge by not getting the big guys touches. We need to move to ball faster so they can get a pass before the zone shifts. Also, we need to use them in the transition game more.
 
When we were not hitting our perimeter shots, teams could pack the middle and zone Tres and Joel or sag to prevent drives inside. When you hit 3 pointers like we did against ISU, suddenly the defensive strategy has to shift to cover the outside. ISU ran a 1-3-1 to take away the wing shots from Davion - but man that left the baseline open and Weber took advantage.

Tres was high scorer in No Colo, since they guarded the perimeter and he and Joel scored in the first half - until they changed to a zone.


IT will balance out for the post.
 
We had 27 rebounds and several blocked shots out of Joel and Kyle. That equals what the whole ISU team got. If you are just looking at points scored, yes, it seems low. However, it was a low scoring game and we were taking what they were giving. Ultimately, their ploy did not work. Many of our threes came off of passes from the post. I would say that our zone attack and our post play was very good. :twocents: :twocents: :twocents:
 
One thing we do miss with mook is the catch at the high post or foul line. He would turn and face the basket and sometimes drive which made those low post defenders step up. Tres catches the ball and doesnt even look at the basket, just has his back turned. I think if he could knock down that foul line jumper it would open down low a bit more. Also Trevor Moris comes to mind, big man that can hit the jump shot. He wasnt great but when left open he could knock it down.
 
He seems to be lacking confidence, before he would have taken an open jumper, now he doesnt even look at the basket.
 
Wildcat_Fan said:
One thing we do miss with mook is the catch at the high post or foul line. He would turn and face the basket and sometimes drive which made those low post defenders step up. Tres catches the ball and doesnt even look at the basket, just has his back turned. I think if he could knock down that foul line jumper it would open down low a bit more. Also Trevor Moris comes to mind, big man that can hit the jump shot. He wasnt great but when left open he could knock it down.
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That is my thinking; Mook made the post work much like an effective PG up top, Mook was the post General. I'll bet if we were to look back to last year's film it would jump out of the screen (in hindsight, of course). Berry isn't the same type of player and when it does get packed in offensively, it's crowded with Tres and Joel playing a similar game. A healthy (and effective) Fulton could possibly create a similar thing but he's too slow. :twocents: Rahe needs a different system than what was effective with Mook (and Bam) to get Tres and Joel really going offensively.
 
Fact is, when teams double Tresnak down low or play a zone that is packed in, they are saying Tresnak is Weber's main offensive threat and they want to take that away. When that happens Weber's perimeter players need to be able to make the 3s and penetrate the zone from the top.
At one point near the end of the game Monday ISU went to a box and one with the one on Richardson, obviously thinking he was the main threat from outside. But Berry found Williams open in the corner for a three.
I thought Williams was the better player to have in there Monday than Gittens. Gittens couldn't get to the rim against the zone. Williams added another threat from the 3 point line. Plus, he did a very good job on Hansen in the second half.
 
Fact is, when teams double Tresnak down low or play a zone that is packed in, they are saying Tresnak is Weber's main offensive threat and they want to take that away. When that happens Weber's perimeter players need to be able to make the 3s and penetrate the zone from the top.
At one point near the end of the game Monday ISU went to a box and one with the one on Richardson, obviously thinking he was the main threat from outside. But Berry found Williams open in the corner for a three.
I thought Williams was the better player to have in there Monday than Gittens. Gittens couldn't get to the rim against the zone. Williams added another threat from the 3 point line. Plus, he did a very good job on Hansen in the second half.
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Good insight!! :notworthy:

Defense has to cover the scorers, and will go Man if we can hurt them from backcourt and inside. Fun to watch the strategy as the season goes along.
 
regarding the isu game, we were lights out from 3 so it didnt matter to score more in the paint against isu's nice zone. but we normally dont hit 12 3's in a game this season.

i think we had 12 points in the paint and 36 from downtown. defensivly the box score looked great from the bigs. trez had 11 boards and 3 blocks - yikes! joel 15 or 16 boards.

what can we expect from msu's defense?
 
Also one thing that our offense is missing is the pick and roll. Its amazing how many picks we set for guards up top but never look for the pass. i think this attributes to the fact that no one has been hitting the short/med range jumper. Fulton has really been the only option with the pick and roll, which most of his 3s has come. Surprising he has been effective shooting when he has played. Give him more minutes??
 
Wildcat_Fan said:
Also one thing that our offense is missing is the pick and roll. Its amazing how many picks we set for guards up top but never look for the pass. i think this attributes to the fact that no one has been hitting the short/med range jumper. Fulton has really been the only option with the pick and roll, which most of his 3s has come. Surprising he has been effective shooting when he has played. Give him more minutes??
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Fulton brings some serious skill to the offensive end of the court. He has some great post moves along with his ability to spread a defense with his outside shooting. However, because of his injuries, he is a huge liability on the defensive side of the court. He also isn't the greatest rebounder, because he doesn't have the jumping ability that he once had. But I do think, when a team plays a zone, and you need a good high post threat, who can hit a mid range jumper or make the best pass, Fulton is the best option. Granted, he doesn't pass all that often, once he gets the ball :rofl:, nonetheless, he is our best passing big. Granted, we don't know how good Fuller is at those things, because there is a logjam at the 4 and there aren't a lot of mins. But I think he might be our next best passing big and zone buster. He has a solid outside shot and good court vision, just no experience at this level.

Personally, I think Rahe is using the wrong personnel to break zones. Bolomboy is a rebounding beast and when his heart is in it, one of our best defenders. Also, he is a put back machine. I love Hill's toughness. He is one hell of a scrappy player. He is, in my opinion, consistently, our best defender in the post, and we all know Tres is the man, but none of them can move and make the passes necessary for a high post man to break a zone. Hill can hit the outside shot, but whenever he shots, I totally cringe. Tres earlier in her career could hit the medium jumper, but hasn't been very successful at that lately. Bolomboy can't pass and can't drive. He has been developing a 10-15' jumper and is king around the bucket.

Fact...teams are going to play zone until we can beat it. Might as well mix up the options to increase our chances of forcing teams to play man against us.
 
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