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Randy Rahe Recruiting Results

B

baller

Active member
It seems to me that Rahe is making far too many bad recruiting decisions... In the past 5 years (2012-13 - 2016-17) there have been 17 players recruited to WSU who have been dismissed from the team. Only 2 of the 17, it seems to me, chose to leave the team. The rest were "softly counseled out" as OldRunner describes it. 13 of the 17 spent only one year with the team. These numbers include Gittens & Williams this year and also assumes that Darling & Stavrev will be leaving after the season is over. The four players who lasted more than one year are Wheelwright (2), Jefferson (2), Gittens (3), and Stavrev (2) who was medically unable to play for most of the two years.

That is a lot of turnover. Mostly recruiting mistakes. Seems a bit excessive to me...
 
This happens at alot of places. I don't think we are too off the average. You are not going to bat %100 with recruiting. It isn't a real expectation. I think we have done fairly well over the years and recruiting is probably near the bottom of my complaints list.

What I don't get is the years where we lose the entire class? Fields, Brown, Wheelwright. Or like last year when we don't bring in a JC or grad transfer to fill a pressing need. We knew damn well what Jordan Dallas was going to be able to contribute at the 5, and then went out and brought in another low motor big man that wasn't going to sniff the court in Darling.
 
Stats for D1 basketball from 2015 list there were 5503 players that year. ESPN reported last Jan that between mid year and end of season transfers, the number was 700. This means 12.7% of players left/moved/transferred to another team.

Using that rate against the typical 13 scholarship players per team means that 2 players leave on average every year.

Players leave for what they view as better places/opportunities and coaches move players that are not contributing or demonstrating a buy-in to their program.
 
baller said:
It seems to me that Rahe is making far too many bad recruiting decisions... In the past 5 years (2012-13 - 2016-17) there have been 17 players recruited to WSU who have been dismissed from the team. Only 2 of the 17, it seems to me, chose to leave the team. The rest were "softly counseled out" as OldRunner describes it. 13 of the 17 spent only one year with the team. These numbers include Gittens & Williams this year and also assumes that Darling & Stavrev will be leaving after the season is over. The four players who lasted more than one year are Wheelwright (2), Jefferson (2), Gittens (3), and Stavrev (2) who was medically unable to play for most of the two years.

That is a lot of turnover. Mostly recruiting mistakes. Seems a bit excessive to me...
Click to expand...
Out of those 17 you are quoting, 9 were walkons and another 3 or 4 were provisional signings, meaning that they came in knowing it was a long shot of making the team. The rest of them were simply not going to get any playing time and sought their fortunes elsewhere. Almost any recruiting gurus you talk to will tell you that a 20% to 25% success rate is expected. Anything above that is exceptional.
 
webergrad02 said:
This happens at alot of places. I don't think we are too off the average. You are not going to bat %100 with recruiting. It isn't a real expectation. I think we have done fairly well over the years and recruiting is probably near the bottom of my complaints list.

What I don't get is the years where we lose the entire class? Fields, Brown, Wheelwright. Or like last year when we don't bring in a JC or grad transfer to fill a pressing need. We knew damn well what Jordan Dallas was going to be able to contribute at the 5, and then went out and brought in another low motor big man that wasn't going to sniff the court in Darling.
Click to expand...
We were counting on Kiko and his injuries didn't allow that to happen. Hindsight is always 20/20.
 
So if the average leaving a team is 2 per year as stated by "heyoh22" then Weber has had turnover well beyond that, averaging 3.4 in the last five years. And "old runner" please tell me which of the 17 names listed below were walk-ons. I don't think any of them were... Wayne Bradford, Jordan Rex, Kevin Sweat, Gelaun Wheelwright, Duce Zaid, Josh Fuller, Royce Williams, Chris Golden, Hayden Hunter, Jeremiah Jefferson, JJ Coston, Ryan Van Pelt, George Darling, Richaud Gittens, Kiko Stavrev and Juwan Williams.

Oops, that's only 16 so the average should be 3.2 per year. Still 62% greater than the average...

Yes, I know that Gittens lasted 3 years, but he was still counseled out and didn't last the entire time of his eligibility. And Van Pelt was a walk-on out of high school but got a scholarship after his mission I believe.

I say Randy Rahe isn't as good an evaluator of talent and drive as he appears to be on the surface. I think that he focuses so much on character and compliant guys that he gets a lot of guys who are good citizens but not highly competitive and intense. On this years team alone it seems to me that Dallas, Stavrev and Darling completely lack competitiveness. And Gittens, Richardson, Hill and Cannon are not consistently highly competitive. But I have to give Hill credit. For the past few games he has brought a top-notch competitiveness to every game. Too bad he spent the better part of 5 years lacking competitiveness.
 
OK, so I went and did some data crunching and here is what I found:

(Please note that it may be semi-incomplete. I was going off of archived roster data and while researching I found one or two inconsistancies)

Since 07-08, there have been 41 players that have appeared on the roster in one season and were gone the next. This number excludes graduating seniors. One player was drafted in his junior season, and another was on the roster one year, left for his mission, returned to Weber State and later left the team again without graduating.

Year by year breakdown
2007-08: 16 players on roster, four were seniors, four non-seniors did not return next season
2008-09: 16 players on roster, two were seniors, seven non-seniors did not return next season
2009-10: 14 players on roster, two were seniors, five non-seniors did not return next season
2010-11: 13 players on roster, two were seniors, two non-seniors did not return next season
2011-12: 14 players on roster, two were seniors, four non-seniors did not return next season
2012-13: 15 players on roster, two were seniors, five non-seniors did not return next season
2013-14: 15 players on roster, four were seniors, five non-seniors did not return next season
2014-15: 16 players on roster, one senior, six non-seniors did not return next season
2015-16: 16 players on roster, one senior, four non-seniors did not return next season

17 of the 41 players transferred from another institution to Weber State, where for whatever reason they did not work out and left the team without graduating.

13 of the 41 were at one point or another a walk-on

Here is the list I have compiled. Again, I'm not sure how completely accurate all of this data is as I had to cobble it together from various sources:

Drew Arnold (Transfer to WSU from MSU-Billings)
Danny Johnson (Return from mission, left ISU to go to WSU)
Jamaine Nance (JuCo Transfer)
Juan Pablo Silveira (Not Rahe's signing)
T.J. Benson (Walk-on who later earned scholarship)
Marcus Carson (JuCo Transfer)
Josh Cottle (Return from mission, left UVU to go to WSU)
Terrance Dent (Signed as freshman)
Cody Larson (Walk-on)
Mike Pelo (I couldn't find any information on his situation)
Marco Ramos (JuCo Transfer)
Pablo Coro (Was on the roster one season as a redshirt)
Dee Crandall (Walk-on)
Josh Noble (JuCo Transfer. Looks like he just left the team as he graduated from WSU in 2011)
Franklin Session (JuCo Transfer)
Matt Washington (JuCo Transfer)
Blake Davis (I think he was a Rahe signing, might have been a walk-on)
BJ Porter (Transfer to WSU from Portland)
Mike Brown (Signed as freshman, asked to leave team to pursue other options)
Logan Foster (Walk-on)
Damian Lillard (Drafted by Trail Blazers)
Ryan Van Pelt (Signed as freshman, left on mission, later returned to WSU)
Wayne Bradford (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jordan Rex (JuCo Transfer, possible walk on for his only year at WSU)
Gelaun Wheelwright (Signed as freshman, later departure from team was big enough to warrant a press release from the AD)
Duce Zaid (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Brady Borklund (Walk-on)
Josh Fuller (Return from mission, left U of U to go to WSU, possibly counseled out)
Aziz Leeks (Walk-on)
Christian McDonald (Walk-on)
Royce Williams (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jake Bigler (Walk-on)
Jordan Brown (Walk-on)
Chris Golden (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jaelyn Johnson-Coston (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Grant Jones (Walk-on)
Ryan Van Pelt (Return from mission, possibly counseled out)
Hayden Hunter (Signed as freshman, later a walk-on)
Jeremiah Jefferson (Signed as freshman)
JC Kennedy (Signed as freshman, later a walk-on)
Juwan Williams (Signed as freshman, left in middle of 16-17 season)

What this says to me, in my opinion, is most of Rahe's swings and misses feel like they are transfers from other institutions, that were probably brought on more as a short term fix than with plans for playing a major part in the future. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination and I've only been following the team since 2011, so I defer to the opinions of more experienced fans on this board.
 
Drew Arnold (Transfer to WSU from MSU-Billings)Walk on - never played
Danny Johnson (Return from mission, left ISU to go to WSU)walk on - never played
Jamaine Nance (JuCo Transfer)
Juan Pablo Silveira (Not Rahe's signing)
T.J. Benson (Walk-on who later earned scholarship)always a walk on
Marcus Carson (JuCo Transfer)never played
Josh Cottle (Return from mission, left UVU to go to WSU)Walk on
Terrance Dent (Signed as freshman)Never played
Cody Larson (Walk-on)
Mike Pelo (I couldn't find any information on his situation)walk on
Marco Ramos (JuCo Transfer)never played
Pablo Coro (Was on the roster one season as a redshirt)walk on
Dee Crandall (Walk-on)
Josh Noble (JuCo Transfer. Looks like he just left the team as he graduated from WSU in 2011)
Franklin Session (JuCo Transfer)
Matt Washington (JuCo Transfer)
Blake Davis (I think he was a Rahe signing, might have been a walk-on)walk on
BJ Porter (Transfer to WSU from Portland)
Mike Brown (Signed as freshman, asked to leave team to pursue other options)
Logan Foster (Walk-on)
Damian Lillard (Drafted by Trail Blazers)
Ryan Van Pelt (Signed as freshman, left on mission, later returned to WSU)Always a walk on
Wayne Bradford (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jordan Rex (JuCo Transfer, possible walk on for his only year at WSU)Never put on a jersey, Walk on
Gelaun Wheelwright (Signed as freshman, later departure from team was big enough to warrant a press release from the AD)
Duce Zaid (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)Never played
Brady Borklund (Walk-on)
Josh Fuller (Return from mission, left U of U to go to WSU, possibly counseled out)
Aziz Leeks (Walk-on)
Christian McDonald (Walk-on)
Royce Williams (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jake Bigler (Walk-on)
Jordan Brown (Walk-on)
Chris Golden (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Jaelyn Johnson-Coston (JuCo Transfer, possibly counseled out)
Grant Jones (Walk-on)
Hayden Hunter (Signed as freshman, later a walk-on)
Jeremiah Jefferson (Signed as freshman)
JC Kennedy (Signed as freshman, later a walk-on)Always a walk on
Juwan Williams (Signed as freshman, left in middle of 16-17 season

If you eliminate the walk ons, JC transfers and guys who never darkened the Dee It leaves 7 guys who either left for PT or didn't fit what Randy wanted, over 11 years. I'd say we are beating the national average by a long ways. Even if you add the JCs in, we still beat the average. I don't think you can count walk ons or guys who never show up in the first place.
 
Runner, I stated that in recent years (5) Rahe had unusually high turnover. I still think he does.

Ok, so I was wrong about some having scholarships. Jordan Rex, till not sure that he didn't...
Olds, you didn't mention Kevin Sweat in your review. He was on the 12-13 team. Was he also a walk on. I think I remember him as a one year scholarship player.
I was told that Van Pelt got a scholarship in the year he returned from a mission. Are you sure that he didn't?

If none of the above received scholarships that still leaves 13 scholarship players who left before their eligibility was up. Doesn't really matter why they left...

That means an average of 2.6 scholarshipped players leaving the team per year. Still far too many and above the national average.
 
baller said:
Runner, I stated that in recent years (5) Rahe had unusually high turnover. I still think he does.

Ok, so I was wrong about some having scholarships. Jordan Rex, till not sure that he didn't...
Olds, you didn't mention Kevin Sweat in your review. He was on the 12-13 team. Was he also a walk on. I think I remember him as a one year scholarship player.
I was told that Van Pelt got a scholarship in the year he returned from a mission. Are you sure that he didn't?

If none of the above received scholarships that still leaves 13 scholarship players who left before their eligibility was up. Doesn't really matter why they left...

That means an average of 2.6 scholarshipped players leaving the team per year. Still far too many and above the national average.
Click to expand...

I am wondering if Olds might be misremembering a couple of these guys, because a few of the guys he said were walk ons I found releases saying they had signed NLIs with Weber State (One of whom was Van Pelt like you mentioned)
 
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