Speaking of Numbers...

[votb]

After reading both the editorials in the Times-News and today's Journal...I thought it would be interesting to gather a little information about one of our opponents next year...Utah State. I think there's no doubt the Aggies are playing more competitive football this year under new coach Gary Anderson, but they're still 1-3, with their win against Southern Utah. After doing just a little digging, I came up with the following information:

Winning Seasons since 1994 - 1 (6-5, 1996)
Win-Loss Record since 1994 - 49 wins, 118 Losses
Since 2003: 3-9, 3-8, 3-8, 1-11, 2-10, 3-9
The Aggies are on their 6th head coach since 1994.


My only point with this information is that we're not the only football program around that has been struggling. That does not mean we shouldn't be getting better...we should. I wonder how Aggie fans are coping?

 

[pocatato]

As I have said before, hiring one more football coach might not fix anything. It would be interesting to see what the U of I has done in the same period of time since leaving the Big Sky. I would like to hear from informed sources what it would take for ISU to turn things around. Would a larger recruiting budget be enough? Would it help to pay assistants more to draw a more able group of candidates? What would we need to do with facilities? Team travel might be an issue. It all seems to come back to money and I understand that the U of I has done a very good job with the BCS money Boise State and Hawii earned improving facilities in Moscow. If we had not played Oklahoma and Arizona State, ISU would simply not be able to fund athletics if the administration is to be beleived. This is akin to Idaho receiving bowl money from other schools in their conference. Is our football program getting a substantial share of the blood money they earned from the body bag games? I have no answers, only questions. I would love to hear from competent commentators.

 

[bengalcub]

Utah State will absolutely trounce ISU. I have watched three of their games this year and they are way better than they have been in the past. Turbin and Borel are so quick and fast--they can move the ball very well--they just have not stopped anyone.

Utah State is improved and everyone knows it, just like Idaho is and just like Southern Utah is. You can see the progress even without looking in the W-L column because they are showing improvement. I think that would be the answer to shutting the folks up that criticize the Bengals. IF ISU was actually improving over the first two seasons, I think the fans would appreciate the efforts of Coach Zamberlin more. However--it doesn't look like they are, instead fans are seeing the wheels begin to fall off.

As for a new Coach and what they bring to the table. There is not doubt that someone new will need some time to get things up and running. However, I would still expect that someone new would need to show positive progress as well.

I think the only way that Zamberlin survives is to make tough calls on coaches that need to go bye-bye. In fact, I still believe that Larry Lewis would have survived if he was not so loyal to his assistant coaches. I think ISU will ask him to make changes to his staff or show him the door at the end of the season. If he is loyal to the coaches he has, which I believe he will be to a fault--well we will see.

But then again--I could be wrong.

 

[Jahim]

I think the key for the Ut St, U o I, and ISU examples is finding the RIGHT coach. Look at the example of bowling green early this decade. They had some thin years (similar to the late lewis years) going 2-9 the year before Urban Meyer got there. The next season he went 8-3. He didn't have HIS players, time to install HIS system, but he and his staff implemented imediate change. Now change at ISU may not take such immediate effect (fingers crossed), but visible, immediate change can take place. At Ut St, Anderson did little things like making players feel "big time". This wasn't done by building new facilities or lockerrooms, it was giving them an extra t-shirt or pair of shorts. Watch out for the aggies in the next few years BSU by the way. We can compete at this level, we just need to get our right fit.

 

[pocatato]

You don't get the "right fit" with substantial cuts in budgets every year, do you? When Larry Lewis came to Pocatello he said he would need a $50,000.00 increase in the recruiting budget before he would take the job and language in his contract to protect that. He got it and ISU started winning. What he didn't anticipate was the increase in other incidental costs such as travel and tuition and the failure of the president to authorize increases to cover those costs. We started losing. Z's budget has been cut every year he has been here and he probably won't get enough of the Oklahoma and ASU money to help much. Utah State and Idaho put the money they got from conference partners to good use and I am sure Gary Anderson made some significant demands of the USU administration before he would take the job. He didn't get those guarantees at ISU and withdrew from consideration. Another football coach will make little difference in my opinion unless the conditions for success are put in place.
A

 

[tigersmilk]

I need someone to explain to me how more money for recruiting would effect the retention rate (which in Z's case is a lack luster situation) when theoretically those individuals have already been paid for via the recruiting budget.

AND near as i can tell the cross section of those players lost represent the entire spectrum of talent and locational origin.

maybe i am missing something but wouldn't we, in theory, just be loosing more expensively invested recruits?

I agree that the recruiting budget is vital to the quality of talent brought in and thus the overall success of the program, but...if the players either hate (i use this word loosely) playing for these coaches or are of less than adequate moral disposition (and thus must be removed) doesn't that reflect on the coaches ability (or disability) to judge the character of their prospective players and/or handle them appropriately once they (the players) have come into the fold?

I guess i to reiterate retention outweighs budget, in my opinion...but budget is very necessary!

somebody teach me something because i cant figure it any other way?

 

[blackfootbengal]

What has made and kept Boise comptitive is Money. Boise State has always made sure that athletics had the money to hire good assistant coaches and be competitive recruiting. What took Lewis down was losing really good assistant coaches and not being able to get the same caliber of assistant here to replace them. I don't know if the problem was money or the better assistants would not come here to work for Lewis, but that was his downfall. Take a look at our recruiting classes the last couple of years Lewis was here. Strong on the offensive side of the ball, weaker on the defensive side. We alway had good offensive teams and weak defensive teams. Good assistants can recruit, poor ones usally cannot. Barnum made the calls on the offensive side of the ball, Lorig on the defensive side. Strong in control offensive coordinator, weak lacking disipline on the defensive side. What I see with Zamberlin is an overall weakness on the staff. While there are some good coaches on the staff, we are and have been weak at the key spots on the staff. The coordinators are inexperienced and it shows in both the play on the field and in recruiting. To be frank, I don't think the staff really knew what kind of talent they needed to compete at this level the first two years. Combined with the fact that they lose 50% or better of every class has translated into a team with no depth and poorly coached. To win you have to first be able to recruit and coach. Don't give me excuses, just do your job, get the recruits, then coach them up. To say that money does not effect all this is inaccurate though. That is the main reason ISU has not been successful. Athletics is treated like a second class citizen at ISU. We keep our budgets as steamlined as possible so any cuts make a huge difference in the athletic department. For some reason lower campus cannot grasp that a winning football and basketball team will bring more money and students in than a good science program. Boise State got this, thats why dispite the fact that Boise State is the weakest four year school in Idaho. Many people believe it is as good a school as Idaho or Idaho State academically.

 

[pocatato]

Thank you, Blackfoot. You are well on the way to answering my question. That is, can ISU football or other athletic teams be consistently successful (or at all) without a review of the systemic problems facing athletics? What good will hiring one more football coach do if the reasons for long term failure are not addressed?

 

[up for the challenge]

Coaches are coaches as most of them have played the game and have come from other programs where they have coached. A head coach has to recruit great players to be successful, bottom line. Great players makes the coaches look great. It is all about recruiting and Coach Z has had only 2 years of recruiting at ISU. His first 2 recruiting classes appear to be doing well. Look at the top D1 colleges in the nation, they always have great programs because the coaches know how to recruit great players.

 

[blackfootbengal]

Up for the challenge, you keep wanting to ignore that first recruiting class. Even if the staff does not want to admit it happened, it did. We even have some of that class playing today, i.e. Kelvin Krosch, Kelvin Miller if he could grow up, J.T. Albers, Evan Mozzochi, David Tyler. Jordan Petersen is back from his mission and as soon as he figures out he is a football player not a cross country running he may even help the team. Hell, even though he was a Lorig recruit that we took, include Domitrius Amos on the list. The problem, because of the arragance of the staff coming from Div. II and Orthman who never thought anyone was good enough, we waited till the last minute to go after kids that would have committed to us. Kids that other coaches on the staff were recruiting and could have made an impact this year at ISU. I can think of three who are starting or playing at other Big Sky schools right now.

Out of the second class we have Storm, Pleasant, Clayson, and Rouser and Jacobson who were scholorshipped freshmen. Where is the rest of this great class? Not everyone is going to be a star, but the rest provide quality depth, something we don't have because of attrition.

Our last class has more impact players than any prior class, kids who will and can make an impact in the future. The problem, freshmen rarely if ever are difference makers. Even Jared Allen did not start his freshman year although as Storm has done, he was a major contributer. We are playing true freshmen right now because of the failure of the staff to recruit in their first year. We have two true freshman WR, a RS Freshman WR, and a Sophomore WR playing significant time and wonder why we have some many interceptions. We only have one person injured, why so many underclassmen? We run a spread, the WR's have to know the offense as well as the QB's. Granted, first classes are usually your worst, but why keep Whitworth and Junior if you were not going to listen them on kids they were close to. Instead we have walk-ons starting ahead of recruited kids.

My comments here just address the recuiting issue's. Don't get me started on the bad management decisons that leave us paying a DL coach almost as much as a Coordinator who is essentially a DL coach.

 

[up for the challenge]

Coach Z knows how to recruit good players and he knows how to get their commitment. He is currently building a program at ISU by the recruiting process and he is telling the recruits that they can actually come into the program and contribute right away by playing as true freshmen if they display great effort in practice and in the classroom. This is currently happening this year with true freshmen due to injuries, etc. Sure, the ISU football program is struggling for wins but overall the team is improving from game to game and the underclassmen are stepping up which tells me that the future of the ISU program is heading in the right direction. The players believe in Coach Z, believe in the assistant coaches, and believe in the ISU program. With that said, "Why disrupt the ISU football program by bringing in another head coach who will bring in his own assistant coaches"? The recruiting process for this year would send the wrong message to potential recruits as they may view the ISU program as a negative rather than a positive. Some recruits want to play football for an established winning program and will wait until their junior or senior year to play and some recruits want to play football for a team that is rebuilding and they can come into a program and contribute right away as a true freshmen. Look at Pete Carol at USC, he tells his recruits that they can contribute right away as a freshmen and this is why he is a winner because all of the players believe in his philosophy. I think Coach Z is taking the ISU football program in the right direction and he is getting closer to turning this program around. You will probably see the results next year but this season is not over and the team is improving every week which tells me that the program is heading in the right direction. I think Coach Z and his assistant coaches deserve another 2 year contract after this year. If they do not win in the next 2 years than I think it is time for Coach Z to step down or a change to take place. Let's see what happens at the end of the season but I am confident that Coach Z will have a 2 year extension onto his contract.

 

[blackfootbengal]

Were you Clinton's press agent before you went to work for Zamberlin. I'll call bullsh!t on winning in two years. As Cub has commented on, we do not have the foundation for a winning program in two years. The sophomore class of this year will be your Senior class in two years and there are only four playing right now with Krosch as the only impact player of that group. You are only as good as your senior class. Maybe four years if they continue to recruit as well as the last class.

 

[Skippy]

Blackfoot, I agree that this program needs depth and a couple of more good recruiting classes, but don't forget how Eastern Washington became a contender with a bunch of sophomores -- (Matt Nichols, Aaron Boyce, Brynson Brown, etc.). You can become competitive in the Big Sky with a four or five impact players at the right positions.

 

[up for the challenge]

Blackfoot - I am just a fan just like you hoping that ISU can turn their football program into a winning program. Some fans believe Coach Z should go and some fans believe (like me) that Coach Z should have his contract extended for another 2 years. The current players (other than current seniors) will be back next year along with the new incoming freshmen and transfers. In my own personal opinion, I believe it would be a big mistake for ISU to hire a new head coach for next year as it would hurt the recruiting process for this year. If ISU extends coach Z contract to another 2 years the new recruits will know that they are part of the rebuilding process and they will know that they have a chance to play immediately based on true freshmen playing this year and last year. New recruits want the opportunity to play immediately as they do not want to stand on the sidelines watching the game. Coach Z is not afraid to make changes in the line-up from game to game and for that reason the players know they must compete in practice and compete during the games if they want to play. If a new head coach comes to ISU, he will will bring in new assistant coaches, sometimes change are good and sometimes changes are not good. I believe this is not the time to bring in a new coach. I still believe you will see a Big Sky League championship in 2 years time based on the Coach Z recruiting classes.

 

[baller1]

A couple of things stand out to me on this. I like to compare Coach Z to Coach OB in some ways. I think they both came in here and underestimated the talent level that it takes to win in the Big Sky. The difference is that OB has figured out how to win even though some of his recruits really haven't panned out. Plain and simple, Z is judged by wins and losses, especially in conference play. OB has gotten it done with no money, poor facilities, no recruiting base, ridiculously difficult schedule and all the same obstacles that Coach Z faces. No excuses, just win conference games.

I say that if he gets an extension, it's for 1 year only. Now before everyone goes off on how you can't recruit with a 1 year contract, let me explain. When I coached hoops at ISU, I made hundreds, if not thousands, of recruiting calls. I talked to high school kids, JUCO kids, foreign kids, you name it. Guess how many times a recruit asked me what the current contract situation was of our head coach. ZERO! It was never discussed and I honestly don't think it's a big deal. If a kid believes in a coach enough to sign with him, then that kid believes that the coach is good enough to be around for a while, regardless of his current contract.

So I say, if we get a win this year, 1 year extension to see how we progress. If we go winless, how can we justify an extension for a coach who has put out such an embarrassing product to watch on Saturdays?

 

[bengalcub]

Well shoot, that illustrates some of what I do not know...but think I do. I really, thought that kids and parents would want to know if a coach was on the hot seat or not. Interesting, thanks Baller.

On another note, Zamberlin said that last year the record of the team was never brought up ONCE during recruiting visits.

I thought that sounded absurd, but now that Baller pointed out that contracts don't matter, maybe records don't either.

I totally agree with the Zamberlin/O'Brien comparison. Although some will say that it only takes 3-4 players to be successful in the BSC. Facilities, tradition, money and all those things were obstacles that OB overcame in his 1st, 2nd and 3rd year.

 

[baller1]

I will have to disagree with Coach Z. Kids ask all the time about your record. If they don't ask about it, they already know. That's the simplest thing to find. Recruiting is A LOT easier if you're winning.

 

[up for the challenge]

baller 1 - I agree with you about recruits wanting to go to winning programs as most players want to win and be on a championship team. Some recruits were on championship teams in high school and some were not. The real reality is that there will only be one Big Sky Champion. On the other hand, some recruits want to come to a program that is rebuilding and want to sign their letter of intent with other recruits that believe the same thing. The freshmen class is a good recruiting class and I think they believe in Coach Z and his assistant coaches. I think they would be very disappointed if Coach Z was replaced with a new coach this upcoming year.