Talent vs. Coaching...

[tuffgong]

If we were getting smoked by teams like we were during Larry Lewis' first couple of years, I would agree that there is a disparity in talent. That just isn't the case. We pretty much lose every close game that we are in, not because the team is that much more talented, but because we lack discipline, the ability to tear out the opponents heart when we have the momentum, but most of all COACHING. These things all come back to coaches. Our talent, or the lack thereof at alot of positions, is not that much different than the top teams in the conference. It's not like we're absolutely getting boat-raced by teams. For example, when Lewis was re-building, we got stomped by Montana here by like 60!, just because they were that much better personnel wise. That's why I don't get it when people say, "Ya, we could upset Boise, yada yada..." No we can't!!! They possess superior talent, speed, and coaching and have way more FULL RIDE scholly's. Besides that, they have one of the best homefield advantages in all of college football. I think we can still win 4 or 5 games, but it better start this weekend, and the coaches are the one's responsible. Our players overall are just as good as MSU, and the rest of the BSC for the most part. Enough excuses by Zamberlin and Co. They keep saying we are getting better, but no we aren't. We are getting worse, because when you get out-coached and lose games in the matter we have, you lose your players hearts, and then things really unravel...

 

[spartan]

wow, what a true fan - you gave the new coaching staff what? a year and a half before you turned on them? what a wonderful comendable attitude - might be why coaches don't stick around here long

 

[isusid]

I don't think we have been outcoached, and the major mistake from North Dakota, the clock management at the end of the game, was addressed on radio and with the media right after the game, when Coach Z said that was his fault and on him. I liked Larry, and he always treated me well, but he never took blame for anything.

For the most part, John is building from the bottom up trying to use freshmen where possible. His ISU career is 15 games....he has been doing well. Everyone needs to breathe...

ISUSID

 

[outtastate]

I

 

[bengalcub]

Everyone is frustrated over the lack of wins, but how fair is it to talk about how bad this team is so early in the season? Has Idaho State played that badly so far this season? We need to give Zamberlin and Co. a chance as fans and as a community.

This team has some talent, but they lack depth and it shows. They really missed the boat on the defensive side of the ball this year. They spent a great deal or resources on improving the defense and they did very little to address the immediate needs on the defensive line. That leads me to believe that the defensive coaches had better improve at closing the deal on kids, quit reaching for the stars and get athletes that want to come to ISU now.

What remains to be seen is if Zamberlin has the balls (and I mean this with respect) to make changes that MAY be needed. If he is too loyal to coaches that cannot recruit or coach at this level--ISU will suffer the same fate as they did under Coach Lewis.

But we as fans can't be so blind to the fact that four consecutive losing seasons hasn't set the program back. Coach Z and his crew cannot rebuild this team in 15 games and by playing seven road games in a season. Think about it, how many BSC teams win non conference games on the road--let alone conference games on the road? Four to five wins this season would mean a .500 conference record. I'm not sure that they will get it, but if EWU is a top tier team in this league--is ISU really that far off?

 

[isusuperfan]

Bengalcub and spartan would both be correct. We need to give Z more time here. Preferrably, 5 years when his first class graduates. He's got the right idea, but then again, the defense needs work. We can salvage our season if the D steps up. Other than that, the offense is just ROLLING.

Kellis Robinett did have a good point when he stated in an article shortly after the North Dakota game, that we cannot accept losing anymore. He's right. No more moral victories. Period.

 

[GOBIGORANGE]

Hey bengalcub, I totally agree with you. The only staff member Coach Z kept from the Lewis group was Coach Whitworth because he was the recruiting coordinator and still is. Isn't that a little scary!!!!! I agree this team has some talent and they have played tough competition. Do you think ISU should schedule lesser level competition to get the win loss record up? Does the problem lay with the assistant coaches not having enough experience at this level? Just wondering?

 

[bengalcub]

Big Orange...it really doesn't matter what I think with regards to schedule. ISU needs the money so badly that they will be forced to keep doing it. I hate to see ISU play D-1 games without BIG paydays. Playing Idaho respectable without a paycheck--just makes the fans jump ship and start to question the coaches.

My biggest worry is this...I think ISU is on its last years of playing 1-AA football without some serious funds coming along. What happens when Holt gets condemned? It cost so much to fix the place--and even then would fixing it be the right thing to do. I am not trying to be negative--I just think it is a real possibility.

What bums me out the most is how the fans of a team that has struggled so long does not have the patience to stand behind a coach and give him three to four years. You have poor facilities to deal with as a newbie, usually you inherit a program that has had multiple losing seasons and you have impossible schedules put in place to fund an athletic department.

Zamberlin is the answer. I bitch and moan about play calls and recruiting. But really, he is the right man to guide the ship out of very troubled waters. Why, because he has the desire to do so and he has done it at the D-II level with poor facilities and no funds.

People talk NOW about how ISU was better off with Lewis, but Lewis was a dead duck and soon as his early coaching assistants moved on. I am grateful to LL for what he brought to ISU. Don't get me wrong, but the change was needed after back to back to back losing seasons.

What I like about Z is the fact that his teams fight like hell until the end. That type of mentality will only make the kids and the program stronger. I think that they believe in him and so do I. Unlike Coach Lewis, these kids will play hard, not cause problems and if they do not--they will be shown the door.

 

[bengaleyes]

ISU has enough talent, when playing their best, to compete in every bigsky game. ISU DOES NOT have enough talent to beat opponents in the bigsky consistently enough to get over the .500 mark. ISU CANNOT recruit good enough talent to the program to win consistently enough in the big sky. The current kids are working very hard to compete against EWU's and UM's average game productivity. Thus, putting them in a situation to compete but, more often than not, come away with an "L".

If I am a great talent for bigsky football, why would I come to ISU for bad facilities, bad lockerroom, bad practice field, bad weather, bad tradition, bad support, average academics...

The pattern of history should be proving my point people. :x

We keep firing coaches, losing games, blaming players/coaches, and firing coaches.
The only coach that has broken the mold of the past 2 1/2 decades did so for two straight years. followed by no funding support or facility improvements. Thus, they started losing again like every other coach has done in the past and current.
I'm not seeing true accountability being placed on the people who truely have the power to put ISU in a winning position. Quit blaming the coaches, athletic administration, and players who are doing there best with ABSOLUTELY NO COMPETITIVE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE PROGRAM'S PRESENT AND FUTURE SITUATION.

Please God, change these peoples way of thinking.

 

[yoda]

HEY EYES-
Look-I get tired of your constant facilities talk. Yes- we need new facilities. Everyone knows that. People unfamiliar with the situation know that. Fine.
It does not follow that our players are inferior to our competition. Please refrain from degrading these young men and their level of talent.
Your asssertions are becoming an irritant. Unfortunately, they do nothing to spur anyone to move the capital campaign forward. My suggestion is you stand up and work toward that goal.

 

[bengaleyes]

HEY EYES-
Look-I get tired of your constant facilities talk. Yes- we need new facilities. Everyone knows that. People unfamiliar with the situation know that. Fine.
It does not follow that our players are inferior to our competition. Please refrain from degrading these young men and their level of talent.
Your asssertions are becoming an irritant. Unfortunately, they do nothing to spur anyone to move the capital campaign forward. My suggestion is you stand up and work toward that goal.

I get tired of people holding coaches and players solely accountable for wins and losses. As for as our kids go, I didn't say inferior. You fool, I said not good enough to win consistantly and our record over the past several years says that as well. Do you have another reason why ISU can't win consistantly?
Ask any college football coach in the country what it takes to win and they will say that RECRUITING is where it starts. Ask any college football coach in the country what it takes to recruit and they will say that tradition and facilities are the most important resources available in the college football recruiting game. ISU HAS NEITHER.

 

[isusuperfan]

And despite all of my fan objections, bengaleyes is correct. We need facility upgrades, but nobody wants to pitch in. The community won't have any of it even though they use it, and students don't want our fees going up more than they have been.

Nobody in SE Idaho wants to work TOGETHER and F***ING compromise on the issue. Everyone wants something to be done, but nobody is willing to step up. Of course, the State doesn't wanna help ISU because we're not BS-U or Idaho University. To them, SE Idaho is nothing but Hick and Idiot Country.

The community definitely has a part to play in all this, but they don't appear willing to accept that responsibility.

 

[bengaleyes]

"egon",

O.K. here we go.
Let practice what we have learned.

Q.1) Why do we need facility upgrades egon?

 

[tuffgong]

So you guys are telling me that giving up 497 yards and 44 points per game has nothing to do with coaching and strategy? WOW! The disparity in talent is not that great, bottom line...Before you guys annoint this staff, look at all the coaches that take over programs and win with the previous coaches personnel. If Larry Lewis an Co. would have made those blunders at the end of the UND game, most of us would be calling for his head... Look, with Z and staff, I believe they're getting the attitude and discipline turned around, but the X's and O's have me skeptical...

 

[yoda]

Eyes-
If you had read my post, you have noted that I conceded the facilities point. Unfortunately, according to your words you took the tack that our kids are inferior and you have zero data to support that position.
A talent level unable to consistently win indicates inferiority, unless you have a different lexicon than I do.

Right now, this program is in the second year of a four year turn around. Your BS position that we cannot recruit talent is a slap to every young man on our team, and that irritates me more than any of the other drivel you spew. Let me ask you this- what big sky program(s) has (have)produced more NFL players in the last 5 years than ISU? The answer may surprise you, if you really believe your argument.

My proposal to you was that you get on the right side and work on the capital campaign. I understand that that may be unpalatable to you, given the work involved. It is easier to misread my statement and throw a few poorly worded barbs at me, rather than get on the phone and see what you can do to help.

My new proposal to you is that you reread your post and mine. When that is done- respond.

 

[bengaleyes]

Since the National Championship in 1981
27 years of results:

1) 21 losing seasons
2) Only one playoff appearance
3) 5 of the 6 coaching staffs during this time were fired, asked to leave, or left on bad terms. The sixth is still there.
4) .359 winning percentage from 1982 until October 3, 2008. In otherwords we have lost almost 2 out of 3 games from 1982 until October 3, 2008 on average.
5) Changes that have occured during this time;
a) open door on coaching staffs, administration, and player rollover every 3 to 5 years and
much earlier for some.
b) The majority of the big sky has made significant financial improvements in facilities
over the past 27 years. ISU bought a new turf 8 YEARS AGO AND THAT'S IT.

ITS NOT THE KIDS FAULT! ITS NOT THE COACHES FAULT! ITS NOT THE ATHLETIC ADMINISTRATIONS FAULT! IDAHO STATE UNIVERSITY IS NOT AN ENVIRONMENT THAT ALLOWS COACHES, ATHLETIC ADMINISTRATORS, AND PLAYERS SIGNIFICANT/COMPETITIVE SUPPORT. IT IS NOT AN ENVIRONMENT THAT PROVIDES ADEQUATE RESOURCES/OPPORTUNITY FOR COACHES, PLAYERS, AND ADMINISTRATORS TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND COMPETE AND WIN CONSISTANTLY IN A MAJOR SPORT IN THE BIG SKY CONFERENCE.

ISU athletics has not received adequate financial support from higher athorities, community, and state for 27 years. This is why we fail. This is why it sickens me to continually see topics like "talent vs coaching", or other topics that discuss scheme, player positions, or coaching in general. I have been a valuable part of 3 of the 6 winning seasons of ISU's 27 year history I speak of. I know what it feels like to win and not be supported. I STILL SUPPORT ATHLETIC ADMINISTRATION, COACHES, AND PLAYERS. AND THAT'S IT.

 

[spartan]

so... it's nobodys faulty...?

whats your point?