Time to give it up already?

[PortlandStater]

I started casually following PSU football in 2005 when I was in a graduate program. Since then it's been a slow, painful decline with some ups and many more downs. Vague optimism for better things to come in the face of ever worsening circumstances. I know hope springs eternal, but I think it might be time to put the football program to rest. We'd be in good company because I think we will see many mid-major and even major athletic programs make the decision to either get out of football completely or downsize their programs in the future.

I love FCS football, and personally I think it's a far superior experience than the made-for-TV ad fest that FBS football has become. But we don't have a stadium, we seem to get five terrible seasons for every decent one, and people just don't care. On the other hand, we do have a shiny new basketball/volleyball arena ON CAMPUS, so there will still be plenty of sports to watch. BB only seems like a good option right now.

What do you all think?

 

[EasternDopa]

I think the university needs to carefully consider what the football program is worth. I find it interesting that many schools are adding football in the current environment, and Portland State is talking about dropping the sport. The bottom line is you're going to be at a substantial disadvantage to the team's you recruit against until:

1. You get better funding and stop scheduling so poorly to compensate for the low budget
2. You get a firm stadium, either your own or a contractual arrangement with someone else's.

I suppose there is always an option to move back to D2, but you'd have to have the AD on board with that because every other program would need to move down as well.

 

[DavidKeys]

Where do you get your information?! Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Alan - a frequent nattering nabob of negativity - certainly speaks quite often to that, but I don't believe that Alan is an employee of the university.

Your other points are well taken, but I'm getting really tired of fake news. A fan opining about it does not mean that it is so.

 

[Alan1]

Where do you get your information?! Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Alan - a frequent nattering nabob of negativity - certainly speaks quite often to that, but I don't believe that Alan is an employee of the university.

Your other points are well taken, but I'm getting really tired of fake news. A fan opining about it does not mean that it is so.

No, he is not an employee of the University.

 

[EasternDopa]

Where do you get your information?! Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Alan - a frequent nattering nabob of negativity - certainly speaks quite often to that, but I don't believe that Alan is an employee of the university.

Your other points are well taken, but I'm getting really tired of fake news. A fan opining about it does not mean that it is so.

Fair enough... However I think it is scary that you have fans even talking about such a thing. As an Eastern fan, I love having Portland State in the league and I always attend games in Portland.

What's interesting to note is about 15 years ago there was a "movement" of boneheads on Eastern's campus to quit fielding a football team and even floating the notion of moving back to NAIA. It even got a bit of traction. Then we won a national championship and all those whiny bastards wouldn't dare raise their voice on the subject again, because they'd be shouted down by an overwhelming majority that likes having D1 sports on campus.

Moral of the story: it only takes one really great year to win hearts and minds.

 

[bigskyconf]

Where do you get your information?! Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Alan - a frequent nattering nabob of negativity - certainly speaks quite often to that, but I don't believe that Alan is an employee of the university.

Your other points are well taken, but I'm getting really tired of fake news. A fan opining about it does not mean that it is so.

Fair enough... However I think it is scary that you have fans even talking about such a thing. As an Eastern fan, I love having Portland State in the league and I always attend games in Portland.

What's interesting to note is about 15 years ago there was a "movement" of boneheads on Eastern's campus to quit fielding a football team and even floating the notion of moving back to NAIA. It even got a bit of traction. Then we won a national championship and all those whiny bastards wouldn't dare raise their voice on the subject again, because they'd be shouted down by an overwhelming majority that likes having D1 sports on campus.

Moral of the story: it only takes one really great year to win hearts and minds.

I understand your points and I appreciate you chiming in. It is easy to sit in this fishbowl of PSU athletics and try to make sense of the big picture. However, while trolling some of the other boards after we got our big win over Montana, I was shocked that the notion of dropping divisions in football (or dropping football altogether) is being bantered within other fanbases, some at Northern Colorado and much at Sacramento State. Given our recent history before this year, maybe a byproduct of losing is the hopelessness of "it's not going to get any better so why continue?".

In this conference, if you're not one of the "Core 4" (Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber) you will get some of that at one time or another from your fans, for the same reason that Fire(insert coach's name).com will be the most active website at some point during the season. It's when the administration starts to listen to the naysayers that you have a problem, and PSU football currently has the support from the athletic director and the president.

Good luck to EWU this playoff year. Looks like you got a good draw to the championship. However, we're going to be right with you all next year (and years to come). Bet on it! :thumb:

 

[goviks2]

Don't always agree with Bigskyconf...but on this one...right on! Also, hopefully, some year we'll be in a position to run up the score on Eastern Washington. Lousy sportsmanship!

 

[Alan1]

Where do you get your information?! Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Alan - a frequent nattering nabob of negativity - certainly speaks quite often to that, but I don't believe that Alan is an employee of the university.

Your other points are well taken, but I'm getting really tired of fake news. A fan opining about it does not mean that it is so.

So @DavidKeys, let’s look at some not fake news:
1. In his fourth season, Head Coach Bruce Barnum went 4 and 7 overall and 3 and 5 in conference, losing his three games.
2. In five home games the average attendance was 3,797.
3. In a third to half of the attendees at two of those games were not supporting the Vikings.
4. Four of those games were played in a sports complex lacking mass transit access 14 miles from campus.
5. Neither Merritt Paulson nor the City nor the University has made a public statement about Football’s access to Providence Park
6. The head coach and a local newspaper columnist say the “University” is searching for more local field options.
7. Neither the AD nor the University President has made any public a statement regarding any such search.
8. The AD expressed confidence in the Head Coach.
9. Neither the AD nor the University President has made any public statement about the status of the program.
10. Coach Barnum has stated that without a home, recruiting is more difficult.

You state “Portland State is NOT "talking about dropping the sport". Where did you get your information?

Best wishes, your Righteous Reporter of Reality

 

[Pounder]

Consider that Portland State had at least two of its truly iconic seasons with Neil Lomax at QB and, by the season after he leaves, drops from 1-AA to D-2.

The other iconic run was going to the D-2 playoffs 8 seasons in 9 years, mostly under Pokey Allen.

Portland State has virtually nothing to show for it. If you see it in terms of fanbase, there's no there there; certainly not for Division 1.

Can you make a there? I'm rather convinced the completely on-campus stadium (or a satellite campus heavy with residences and stadium) is a necessity at this point. Or else forget it. D-1 schools with off-campus stadia usually find their way on TV... PSU (whose students have, as I can testify personally, been priced out of Goose Hollow residences they used to inhabit) has a literal out-of-sight out-of-mind football program. If that wasn't the case, 2016 attendance would have spiked considerably after 2015 success.

I've looked at the Stott field lately... wondering if you can do the following:
- Make arrangements to move the Walk of the Heroines to the north
- Build stands on the north side for about 5,000 (because there's no way in heck 15,000 is justifiable)
- On the south side, build a 4-story building that is 80-100 yards long and no more than 10 yards wide (having stayed in a "thinner" hotel, it can't be impossible)
* This building is luxury suites on the 3rd and 4th levels and perhaps a row of recliners on the 2nd level
* The lower level accommodates the visitor's bench during games and allows pedestrian passage during weekdays
- Integrates Hoffmann Hall into the design
- Raised bleachers (no different at, say, Boise State)
- Then build a parking garage extension with a practice field on top

Other out-of-box ideas are definitely welcome... as long as you recognize the visibility issue is paramount on the campus. Providence Park clearly doesn't work for the program anymore.

(The other thing that popped into mind... I've gone over the satellite campus idea before. I'd considered PIR or Delta Park previously, now thinking Washington County Fairgrounds in Hillsboro, where there's ample space, a Fair Board that desires more "event space," MAX access, much closer to the sport-minded population of the metropolis, etc.)

 

[VikNut]

If Portland State is talking about dropping football I guess I missed the discussion. If only Barney would have put in a street car stop outside Hillsboro Stadium the nattering nabob would have been happy. Maybe there is no public statement or detailed discussion of stadium issues is because you don't tip your hand before you have a tentative agreement. In the long-run, what would be more beneficial to the University, owing a hotel or having a football stadium?

 

[bigskyconf]

There was a time, recently, that the idea of playing a basketball game in a bigger on campus "arena" was considered absurd, routinely shot down by various naysayers around town. Then the idea of a "Pavilion" came to fruition and we now have a pretty nice basketball home.

Perhaps Dopa can help me with this, but there was a time, fairly recent, that EWU was struggling with its football facilities, so much that the program was in pretty bad shape. Then a fundraiser, spearheaded by EWU alum, Michael Roos, saved the program and set things in motion to where it is today. Roos was an NFL player but far from being well-known at that level, yet he felt a need to rescue the program that got him there.

Many of our alums have moved on to play professionally, either at the NFL or CFL. The fact that there are more people now that are aware of the fact that we need a place to play is actually a good thing. The best way to get something done is to have people start talking about it. If they aren't, then there is an issue. But people are. Canzano, Goe, other sports talk anchors, sports reporters, even the NY Times writer who wrote the story about Woods all have chimed in about our "situation".

I will say this. Talking is one thing. The next step is doing something about it. Are we?

 

[Pounder]

Canzano is relegated to the low ratings of sports talk radio, a paper that's being boycotted by two sides right now, and a late-night TV show. And he's got 20 times the name recognition and attention of Ken Goe.

Canzano has spent 200 times whatever he spent on positive Timbers press trying to get a major league ballpark in town. Would you like to know where that's going?

Portland State absolutely needed a new arena... and it took an apparent considerable amount of OHSU donor money (and an ominously large-font-labeled ANONYMOUS in the little thank-you monument inside the Pavilion) to get it done. Now, MAYBE, the newly announced (if already underway) donation campaign includes an avenue to get something done. Shrug.

 

[martymoose]

Other out-of-box ideas are definitely welcome... as long as you recognize the visibility issue is paramount on the campus.

I seem to recall that this was canceled by Qatar, but the idea still stuck in my head.

https://gizmodo.com/5047244/dohas-wall-the-worlds-first-underground-stadium

Now we just need to find some Qatar type gas and oil money laying around for this. ;-)

 

[bigskyconf]

Portland State absolutely needed a new arena... and it took an apparent considerable amount of OHSU donor money (and an ominously large-font-labeled ANONYMOUS in the little thank-you monument inside the Pavilion) to get it done. Now, MAYBE, the newly announced (if already underway) donation campaign includes an avenue to get something done. Shrug.

I do agree, mostly. Portland State needed a new basketball arena, however way possible. That has been done. Now we need a place to play football, mainly because the Timbers want to play hardball and the city has no backbone. I don't mind where the money comes from. The logical place (to me anyway) would be similar to the EWU situation, those alums making the professional dollars every Sunday. When the accounting department needs money, the logical choice is to go to the successful, wealthy CPA alums around town. Should be the same with the football department, if you ask me.

 

[Pounder]

I may have posted this (or a different version) before...

https://www.wired.com/2015/11/check-out-a-reimagined-nfl-stadium-for-the-future/

It got me to thinking about "what if you literally aligned a set of lecture halls and classrooms so as to function as stadium seating on Saturday?" Of course, with Portland State, consider integrating, oh, a relocation/rebuild of Cramer Hall (to mention my daughter's "favorite" building ) into something quite off the wall, so to speak.

Or there's St. Johns U in NYC with a soccer stadium atop a parking garage.

A lot of this is far-fetched, especially on Portland State's budget, but maybe an attempt at innovation like this is how you draw out corporate money for a strong dose of experimentation. Or fall flat on one's face, probably.

 

[scooter1]

I seem to remember a proposal by a mayor about building a park above 405. Whatever happened to that idea? Now wouldn’t that be sweet ? :nod:

 

[EasternDopa]

Don't always agree with Bigskyconf...but on this one...right on! Also, hopefully, some year we'll be in a position to run up the score on Eastern Washington. Lousy sportsmanship!

I feel you... I don't know what that was about. I heard from one of the guys after the game that the Eastern sideline felt there was a a PSU offensive lineman who was involved in several late hits and the late scoring was sort of a "revenge" angle. It doesn't matter, I still don't like it, it's total bush league crap in my book.

The funny thing is most Eastern coaches are pretty good friends with Bruce Barnum, so it especially doesn't make sense with that considered.

 

[martymoose]

I seem to remember a proposal by a mayor about building a park above 405. Whatever happened to that idea? Now wouldn’t that be sweet ? :nod:

Vera Katz had proposed that.

 

[bigskyconf]

Don't always agree with Bigskyconf...but on this one...right on! Also, hopefully, some year we'll be in a position to run up the score on Eastern Washington. Lousy sportsmanship!

I feel you... I don't know what that was about. I heard from one of the guys after the game that the Eastern sideline felt there was a a PSU offensive lineman who was involved in several late hits and the late scoring was sort of a "revenge" angle. It doesn't matter, I still don't like it, it's total bush league crap in my book.

The funny thing is most Eastern coaches are pretty good friends with Bruce Barnum, so it especially doesn't make sense with that considered.

From what I heard, your guys got in some hot water against Davis for running up the score as well. :lol:

What are we talking about, the 2pt conversions? What is tougher to convert, a 2-point conversion or an extra point? Your kicker has had an excellent season. It makes sense to me that you'd try some situations with the playoffs around the corner. I actually had no problem with it. Just remember if/when the roles are reversed, why we are going for 2 instead of kicking it. :thumb:

 

[EasternDopa]

There was a time, recently, that the idea of playing a basketball game in a bigger on campus "arena" was considered absurd, routinely shot down by various naysayers around town. Then the idea of a "Pavilion" came to fruition and we now have a pretty nice basketball home.

Perhaps Dopa can help me with this, but there was a time, fairly recent, that EWU was struggling with its football facilities, so much that the program was in pretty bad shape. Then a fundraiser, spearheaded by EWU alum, Michael Roos, saved the program and set things in motion to where it is today. Roos was an NFL player but far from being well-known at that level, yet he felt a need to rescue the program that got him there.

Many of our alums have moved on to play professionally, either at the NFL or CFL. The fact that there are more people now that are aware of the fact that we need a place to play is actually a good thing. The best way to get something done is to have people start talking about it. If they aren't, then there is an issue. But people are. Canzano, Goe, other sports talk anchors, sports reporters, even the NY Times writer who wrote the story about Woods all have chimed in about our "situation".

I will say this. Talking is one thing. The next step is doing something about it. Are we?

I can speak to the Eastern portion... Our university has ALWAYS struggled financially. Up until 15 years ago, EWU was primarily a commuter school and attendance hovered around 8,000 students. The change happened when a new president came in with a vision to convert to a more traditional university. Since then, enrollment has boomed. And it's the 18-23 year old students that have amounted for the growth, which is the "right" group for building an identity. And the identity is what you can market. The younger students have a greater connection to the school, and that is a huge benefit to athletics.

That said, Eastern still has a mountain of problems. Facilities are poor; the football stadium is a joke. There have been many opportunities to expand the stadium, but the university has been slow to act and donors aren't coughing up enough money to get it started.

The constant over the last 15 years, though, is that the football program (and some other programs like women's soccer) have performed very well. Therefore, fan interest remains pretty solid.

That said, Eastern still has a long ways to go.