Tingey: New Arena My Top Priority

[Skippy]

He's thinking $20 million, 4,000-seat facility:



http://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/idaho-state-in-planning-stages-of-building-new-m-basketball/article_ae2093b2-f145-11e4-bb88-475ddd791190.html?utm_campaign=native_advertising&utm_medium=website&utm_source=front_page&utm_content=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PBP]

That would be incredible if they could get it done.

PBP

 

[spudbowl]

That would be great, but 4,000 seats? Has attendance sunk that low? I am old guy that remembers over 8,000 for conference games in the Herb Williams days. Would it be incredibly more expensive to have a 6000 seat arena at least?

Edited my comment: Here is what Jeff Tingey is basing his seating analysis on.

ISJ Writes:
"Tingey, however, is aiming for a building with 1,400 fewer seats because he looked over the attendance for men’s basketball for the past 15 years. The highest average attendance in that time hovered around 3,700. Reed Gym’s size is a hindrance in some areas, but Tingey appreciates how the close quarters are fan-friendly."

While I am glad that he is seeking data. We have not had a good basketball team since about 1994. This community will follow a winning team in much larger numbers. Perhaps, things have changed and not as many people care about ISU BB as they did in the 1970s, 80s, and early 90s but basing the seating on fifteen years of mainly losing teams might not be the best possible analysis.

 

[Bengal Roar]

Great idea and something that can be done. I would like to see more seating as well if they are going to spend that much money. I am sure it will be nice either way. Good job Tingey.

 

[Skippy]

Frankly I'd be surprised if they can build a quality, 4,000-seat facility for just $20 million. But I'm excited that they are embarking on this. Here's why:

--With Idaho moving ahead on a new, $30 M, 5,000-seat arena, and Portland State planning a major remodel of the Stott Center, Idaho State needs to move forward with new basketball facilities. As Jeff Tingey noted in the Journal article, other teams are using ISU's facilities against the Bengals as they try to recruit.

--The new facility will allow both the men's and women's basketball teams and the volleyball team unfettered access to practice time, which has been a huge issue at ISU, especially in the fall when the football team has Holt, and the two basketball teams and the volleyball team have to fight for practice time at Reed along with student activities and classes.

--The basketball atmosphere at Holt is terrible, and it's getting worse as the fan base continues to shrink. It's cold, dark and empty. Reed is a good atmosphere, but the parking, bathroom and concessions are substandard. It's also difficult to recruit to.

---As I look across the floor at Holt to the floor seating section that used to be filled with familiar faces, I see a lot of empty these days. A lot of the "old timers" have moved on to that great gym in the sky, or they have just stopped going to the games. They are not being replaced by a younger generation of new fans. There are a lot of reasons: ISU basketball has been bad for a long time now, college basketball in general is suffering from a diminishing fan base, there are too many NBA and college games on TV today, etc. Building a new facility will hopefully give the ISU program a boost, with an opportunity to reach a new generation of fans.

Is 4,000 too small? Certainly not for the crowds we've been drawing in the last 20 years. Maybe if we put a conference contender on the floor. But maybe we can't afford more than $20 M. The last time ISU built a facility that cost more than $20 M was the performing arts center, and they are still paying off the debt on that facility. Certainly it would be a good problem to have to turn people away from games. It might actually stimulate season ticket sales and increase the value of an ISU ticket. But we are a ways away from that dilemma right now.

 

[biobengal]

I am not quite on board with the plan; however, I realize, the plan could change.

1) 20 million sounds possible, but is that enough to build a 4,000 seat arena?
2) After construction it will be of the smallest facilities in the league, especially if Idaho, PSU, and Sac move forward with arena plans. Does capacity matter?
3) Not much difference in capacity from Reed Gym. Similar in size to many D2 programs including Lewis and Clark State College in Lewiston.
4) Is the capacity large enough for spring commencement?

I like this better: build a nice practice and student athlete facility (5 million) and move games, men and women, to Reed Gym. Somewhere down the line a "real" facility can be built

 

[Skippy]

I am not quite on board with the plan; however, I realize, the plan could change.

1) 20 million sounds possible, but is that enough to build a 4,000 seat arena?
2) After construction it will be of the smallest facilities in the league, especially if Idaho, PSU, and Sac move forward with arena plans. Does capacity matter?
3) Not much difference in capacity from Reed Gym. Similar in size to many D2 programs including Lewis and Clark State College in Lewiston.
4) Is the capacity large enough for spring commencement?

I like this better: build a nice practice and student athlete facility (5 million) and move games, men and women, to Reed Gym. Somewhere down the line a "real" facility can be built

I too am dubious about being to able to build a quality facility for just $20 M. But you have to start somewhere, and it's probably easier to convince the State Board to let you begin raising money if you have a makeable fundraising goal.

I honestly don't think capacity matters: Weber State's gym HOLDS 12 K, but they only average about 6 K. So they are heating and maintaining 6,000 empty seats most nights. NAU's dome probably holds 8 K for basketball, but they rarely get more than 2,000 (although they did have some nice crowds for their post-season games this year). I think the national average for college basketball attendance is about 5 K per game. And that's including all the 20,000-plus crowds at places like Kentucky. I'd rather have a small, full house than an arena that's half-empty.

A good practice facility would be a nice start, but if you think you can raise enough money to build a quality game-day venue, why not go for it?

Spring commencement will probably always be in the Dome, and I don't have a problem with that. All the local high schools do there's in Holt, as well.

 

[Spudhead]

Well it's something which is a positive and needed. So I'm glad for that. I think 5,000 makes a lot more sense, too. And it doesn't even have to do with arena sizes at other Big Sky schools. First, I think it's stupid to use attendance for the last 15 years when, like spudbowl said, the team has been crap. Second, part of those years included Oliver's seasons when the team played at Reed. Some games sold out there, but there was still an overall downward spiral of attendance, because that facility just doesn't cut it for so many reasons. Third, it's naïve to think the arena won't be used for other purposes besides basketball and volleyball. Those two sports SHOULD be the focus, but it's dumb not to use the facility to bring in events such as concerts or sporting events. Those extra events will bring in rental revenue to help pay for upkeep and maintenance. I think a 5,000 or 5,500 seat arena is more than enough, but I wouldn't go smaller.

Burns Arena at Dixie State lists capacity at 4,000. It's not bad looking, but I don't think it accurately reflects long term vision for ISU and Pocatello.

 

[clawsout]

....what about building it for 5,000 to 5,500 originally....with the ability to enlarge it to 7,500 to 8,000 down the road ?....plan for it now....so it looks right...not "pieced together"....

....and if we can build a new facility....with highland, pocatello, century and reed gyms in the area....why could we not bid to host a level of the state BB tournaments from time to time.....4A, 3A, etc.....that would seem to be feasible to me ?

....I think this is a great project....a little of "chicken or the egg"...facilities and winning programs....but I commend jeff for kicking it off.....and if one of my lottery tickets come through....i'll kick in....

 

[PBP]

Claws:

The boys basketball state tournaments were held in Poky during the mid 90's. I was the on site host for the TV coverage of it through channel 10 in Boise.

It was here for two years and then moved to the Boise area despite the fact that for the boys highest level championship, Holt Arena was almost sold out. Fans were packed all the way to the rafters.

Don't know the exact reason they left, I suspect the power brokers in Boise simply didn't like Southeast Idaho hosting such an event.

PBP

 

[50 yr fan]

I think 4000 seats is way to small. 5000 for a Herb Williams conference game was just average. Its not the fans, Kramer will show people that in the next few years. S.E.I. has good fans, they just need a basketball coach that recruits D1 players.

 

[Skippy]

In the last five years, only two Big Sky programs have averaged over 4,000 fans a game over the course of a full season: Weber (which has been over 5,000 all five years), and Montana, who averaged over 4,000 fans twice in that period.

The average attendance at all D-1 college basketball games has fallen each of the last 7 years, and is now below the 5,000 fan mark.

So it's not just Idaho State whose fan expectations have been lowered in recent years. I certainly don't have a problem with building a 5,000 seat arena if they can raise the funding, but fan trends in all of college basketball, in the Big Sky and at Idaho State indicate there will be few times when 5,000 seats are needed.

PS--I think the quality of the arena is far more important than how many it seats. The locker rooms and coaching offices need to be first-rate, because those are part of the recruiting experience. The seating needs to be comfortable -- that was a big issue when they re-did the seating at Reed Gym. The seats were too small and there wasn't enough leg room. The scoreboard needs to be state of the art and include a video board. There needs to be ample and accessible rest rooms and concessions. Those things attract -- or repel -- fans. If they can raise enough money to build a quality facility in all those areas, and put 5,000 seats in it, then by all means, have at it.

 

[biobengal]

In the last five years, only two Big Sky programs have averaged over 4,000 fans a game over the course of a full season: Weber (which has been over 5,000 all five years), and Montana, who averaged over 4,000 fans twice in that period.

The average attendance at all D-1 college basketball games has fallen each of the last 7 years, and is now below the 5,000 fan mark.

So it's not just Idaho State whose fan expectations have been lowered in recent years. I certainly don't have a problem with building a 5,000 seat arena if they can raise the funding, but fan trends in all of college basketball, in the Big Sky and at Idaho State indicate there will be few times when 5,000 seats are needed.

Skippy, I disagree. I don't like all this talk about "average" attendance. It clearly misses the point from a statistical perspective. To reach an average attendance you require the highs and lows; thus, a 3,700 average would likely include several games above the 4k mark and even some below the 3K mark. IMO, the standard deviation and other metrics would also be useful to inform Tingey's 15-year average. I realize statistical analysis is not something everyone wants to hear about... but I have been analyzing ISU statistics for my own amusement for years.

 

[biobengal]

PS--I think the quality of the arena is far more important than how many it seats. The locker rooms and coaching offices need to be first-rate, because those are part of the recruiting experience. The seating needs to be comfortable -- that was a big issue when they re-did the seating at Reed Gym. The seats were too small and there wasn't enough leg room. The scoreboard needs to be state of the art and include a video board. There needs to be ample and accessible rest rooms and concessions. Those things attract -- or repel -- fans. If they can raise enough money to build a quality facility in all those areas, and put 5,000 seats in it, then by all means, have at it.

THIS we agree on... which was edited after my post. Priority: quality for the "student-athlete", coaches, and fans. We will never have the Dee Events Center, but can we build something that will help beat the wildcats? THAT is important. :mrgreen:

 

[Skippy]

More on the arena plans in today's Journal:

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/sports/kylefranko/more-on-idaho-state-s-plans-to-build-a-m/article_dbcaebe4-f16a-11e4-a58e-9fe399473489.html?utm_campaign=native_advertising&utm_medium=website&utm_source=front_page&utm_content=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[donny]

that's leadership for you. thank god leading an athletic department is all that he does.

tingey as a doctor - "I'm not going to fix your broken leg because I've noticed over the last hour you're not walking on it anyway"

tingey as a highway engineer - "after I fix all the excessive potholes and cracks in this pavement, I'm going to decrease the speed limit because I see everybody has been driving slow over this current bad road."

tingey as a waiter - "I'm going to give you a smaller portion because most of the food is rotten and nobody's been eating all of it anyway."

 

[votb]

Thank goodness we have someone to point out all the terrible things Jeff Tingey has done as Athletic Director. It's amazing how we can be deceived and led astray by such things as new locker rooms for football, softball, etc., new turf and a new video board in Holt, a new softball field and a new outdoor practice field, and new basketball floors in Holt and Reed Gym. I was afraid we were getting carried away there for a bit, considering all of the overwhelming accomplishments previous athletic directors before him had. His really pale in comparison.

Thank goodness you've brought us back to our senses.

 

[PBP]

Thank goodness we have someone to point out all the terrible things Jeff Tingey has done as Athletic Director. It's amazing how we can be deceived and led astray by such things as new locker rooms for football, softball, etc., new turf and a new video board in Holt, a new softball field and a new outdoor practice field, and new basketball floors in Holt and Reed Gym. I was afraid we were getting carried away there for a bit, considering all of the overwhelming accomplishments previous athletic directors before him had. His really pale in comparison.

Thank goodness you've brought us back to our senses.

LOL! Well played sir.

PBP

 

[donny]

great comebacks. wouldn't expect you both not to defend your employer. you do have a fiduciary interest after all. and this helps with performance reviews too.

see you next season.

 

[PBP]

great comebacks. wouldn't expect you both not to defend your employer. you do have a fiduciary interest after all. and this helps with performance reviews too.

see you next season.

Donny:

I've been the studio host for football or color analyst for 10 years. Have done basketball play by play for seven. Have never had a performance review, sorry to disappoint you. Since I'm not technically a university employee (I'm self employed) I receive no benefits from the university / state regarding vacation, retirement or health coverage therefore I'm not subject to a formal performance review where I have to answer questions as a self evaluation before meeting a supervisor and then my answers are reviewed and their comments offered.

PBP