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Vandals Coming to Pocatello for Bracketbusters
- Thread starter SLCBengal
- Start date
It would be fun to beat the Vandals -- especially in light of all the vitriol on their message board about how bad the Big Sky is. (Here's one quote:" If verlin can't finish in the top 2 in the regular and post season he needs to go IMO. This is a horrible league and it should be easy to clean up.") Granted, the Big Sky has been down the last couple of years, but for a program that's been as pathetic as Idaho's to look down on any league is laughable.
Of course the Vandals are partially correct as the BSC is in the midst of historical futility. Tinkle at Montana thinks the problem is a lack of D1 home games. Of course, Bengal fans know this and are watching (or not watching, judging by attendance) a team full of strangers they barely know.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/feb/03/sky-certainly-not-the-limit-for-conference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The alarms that began to sound about five years ago over the state of Big Sky basketball are pretty much at DEFCON 1. The league celebrated its 50th year of existence with the worst nonconference showing in history, winning just 15 games against Division I schools, and that with two new lodge brothers (there are BracketBuster opportunities still to come). The Sky’s collective Ratings Percentage Index ranking is 29 out of 32 conferences. Just four years ago, it was 18.
“The answer to that is simple: The rest of the teams in the league need to win more D-I games in the nonleague. But it’s easier said than done. When some schools are asked to play four and maybe five guarantee games for money, they can’t get opponents at home that they should beat. It starts there.”
It is getting a little frightful. Portland State and Northern Colorado had one Division I home game in the preseason; Idaho State had none. Northern Arizona has played five teams in the RPI’s top 40 – and lost all of them, on the road, by an average of 32 points a game.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/feb/03/sky-certainly-not-the-limit-for-conference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A lack of D-1 home games is certainly a part of the problem. I asked the assistant commissioner what the league was doing to address the problem and he basically said the league office is as frustrated as many fans are over the lack of home games. The league did decide to play 20 conference games this year (as opposed to 16 before the two new teams joined the league) partly to give conference teams more D-1 home games. But that means that the top teams in the league -- Weber and Montana -- are having their RPI's damaged by playing more bad conference teams, rather than having an opportunity to schedule presumably better non-conference opponents.
Scheduling aside, the Big Sky's biggest problem is lousy basketball teams. Other than Weber and Montana, there have been no quality teams in the league the last couple of years. The only way to change that is to recruit better. There are some good, young players in the league this year -- Russell at NAU, Jois at EWU, for example -- just not enough. The new NAU coach signed what appears to be a pretty impressive early recruiting class, and I like the three kids Evans signed in November. But there needs to be more depth and more talent, and in a time with 350 schools competing for players, fans and television eyeballs, it's pretty tough to raise the talent level and profile of an entire league. Not impossible, mind you, but challenging.
But Idaho fans who berate the Big Sky are free to encourage their administrators to take their vagabond program elsewhere -- anywhere that will have them. I would remind them that ISU has beaten the Vandals the last five times they have played, and their "WAC juggernaut" is averaging a robust 1077 fans a game. Obviously, their administrators think a stable Big Sky -- struggling though it may be -- is a better resting place than a WAC that is collecting members from throughout the free world in a desperate attempt at survival.
Scheduling aside, the Big Sky's biggest problem is lousy basketball teams. Other than Weber and Montana, there have been no quality teams in the league the last couple of years. The only way to change that is to recruit better. There are some good, young players in the league this year -- Russell at NAU, Jois at EWU, for example -- just not enough. The new NAU coach signed what appears to be a pretty impressive early recruiting class, and I like the three kids Evans signed in November. But there needs to be more depth and more talent, and in a time with 350 schools competing for players, fans and television eyeballs, it's pretty tough to raise the talent level and profile of an entire league. Not impossible, mind you, but challenging.
But Idaho fans who berate the Big Sky are free to encourage their administrators to take their vagabond program elsewhere -- anywhere that will have them. I would remind them that ISU has beaten the Vandals the last five times they have played, and their "WAC juggernaut" is averaging a robust 1077 fans a game. Obviously, their administrators think a stable Big Sky -- struggling though it may be -- is a better resting place than a WAC that is collecting members from throughout the free world in a desperate attempt at survival.
Skippy:
Well written, well thought out post.
Regarding scheduling home games, it's the same situation for most of the women's programs too.
To me the reasons are pretty obvious, money (it costs that to get someone to actually come to Pocatello, Flagstaff, Cedar City etc...sometimes a LOT of it) and location.
There are so many secondary or out of the way locations in the Big Sky that require a bus trip after an airplane flight to get to that I suspect a bunch of mid major teams basically say it's not worth going through the hassle even if say that's only a 45 minute bus ride from Idaho Falls to Poky.
Don't have any idea how to solve these issues.
PBP
Well written, well thought out post.
Regarding scheduling home games, it's the same situation for most of the women's programs too.
To me the reasons are pretty obvious, money (it costs that to get someone to actually come to Pocatello, Flagstaff, Cedar City etc...sometimes a LOT of it) and location.
There are so many secondary or out of the way locations in the Big Sky that require a bus trip after an airplane flight to get to that I suspect a bunch of mid major teams basically say it's not worth going through the hassle even if say that's only a 45 minute bus ride from Idaho Falls to Poky.
Don't have any idea how to solve these issues.
PBP
PBP said:Skippy:
Well written, well thought out post.
Regarding scheduling home games, it's the same situation for most of the women's programs too.
To me the reasons are pretty obvious, money (it costs that to get someone to actually come to Pocatello, Flagstaff, Cedar City etc...sometimes a LOT of it) and location.
There are so many secondary or out of the way locations in the Big Sky that require a bus trip after an airplane flight to get to that I suspect a bunch of mid major teams basically say it's not worth going through the hassle even if say that's only a 45 minute bus ride from Idaho Falls to Poky.
Don't have any idea how to solve these issues.
PBP
Future schedules could easily include UVU, CSU Bake, Grand Canyon and other vagabond WAC programs. In football it's even worse, the Big Sky has gobbled up nearly every FCS football program in the western U.S. making a short trip impossible.
I'm told that next year's home non-conference schedule will be better -- Bill inherited a number of road commitments this year. And in 2014, when Idaho joins the league, they will be going to divisions and there is a good chance -- not guaranteed -- that they'll reduce the number of league games back to 16, opening up the opportunity for more home non-conference games. But most teams in the league have to have a certain number of money games, and ISU is no exception.
Skippy said:I'm told that next year's home non-conference schedule will be better -- Bill inherited a number of road commitments this year.
That is encouraging... I should also note that ISU has 6 home games in football for the first time in a number of years. Two FBS and two lower division; no FCS non-conference games, but still an improvement.
My comments were based on basketball only and the list of WAC schools that Bio mentioned doesn't exactly "excite" the masses does it? (Not attacking you personally by the way Bio...)
I'm referring more to good mid-major programs and some of the lesser schools in the Mountain West, West Coast conferences for example. Maybe even the rare home game (in exchange for say three road ones) with a Pac-12 team.
But again to get even that done, you have to pay a lot of money to get them to come to Pocatello, and that's assuming they even want to put up with flying in to Salt Lake City or Idaho Falls and busing.
From a travel standpoint the only program in the same boat in the Big Sky,as the Bengals (and that includes both arriving and departing) is probably Southern Utah, located two hours from Las Vegas.
PBP
I'm referring more to good mid-major programs and some of the lesser schools in the Mountain West, West Coast conferences for example. Maybe even the rare home game (in exchange for say three road ones) with a Pac-12 team.
But again to get even that done, you have to pay a lot of money to get them to come to Pocatello, and that's assuming they even want to put up with flying in to Salt Lake City or Idaho Falls and busing.
From a travel standpoint the only program in the same boat in the Big Sky,as the Bengals (and that includes both arriving and departing) is probably Southern Utah, located two hours from Las Vegas.
PBP
PBP said:My comments were based on basketball only and the list of WAC schools that Bio mentioned doesn't exactly "excite" the masses does it? (Not attacking you personally by the way Bio...)
Sure, of course... but ANY D1 home game, even a program new to D1, is better than this year's schedule.
NAU is pretty much in the same boat. Most teams fly into Phoenix and bus to Flagstaff.
Idaho is pretty much the same, too. The airport up there is basically an airstrip between Moscow and Pullman, and I think it only services a commuter plane like Pocatello's - SkyWest or Horizon or something like that. Most teams fly into Spokane and bus the 90 minutes to 2 hours down. At least Pocatello has an interstate system running through it, Moscow doesn't.
Last time I visited the Idaho board, there were tearing into each other about any future basketball arena. Some were insisting that it HAD to be at least 12,000 seats, more than WSU's and Gonzaga's hold. This for a team which regularly hosts games with less than 1,000 people.
Idaho is pretty much the same, too. The airport up there is basically an airstrip between Moscow and Pullman, and I think it only services a commuter plane like Pocatello's - SkyWest or Horizon or something like that. Most teams fly into Spokane and bus the 90 minutes to 2 hours down. At least Pocatello has an interstate system running through it, Moscow doesn't.
Last time I visited the Idaho board, there were tearing into each other about any future basketball arena. Some were insisting that it HAD to be at least 12,000 seats, more than WSU's and Gonzaga's hold. This for a team which regularly hosts games with less than 1,000 people.
Sin:
I asked Laura Dinkins who played and coached at NAU about this and she said most teams (including NAU) usually fly into and out of Flagstaff directly, for what it's worth.
Given that NAU has been complaining for years about how they don't have any money I was surprised at what Dink said. I assumed NAU would fly out of Phoenix to save money.
Also speaking of money, NAU just spent 1.2 million upgrading their campus TV station to go to HD.
They now broadcast all basketball games for example using SIX cameras!
PBP
I asked Laura Dinkins who played and coached at NAU about this and she said most teams (including NAU) usually fly into and out of Flagstaff directly, for what it's worth.
Given that NAU has been complaining for years about how they don't have any money I was surprised at what Dink said. I assumed NAU would fly out of Phoenix to save money.
Also speaking of money, NAU just spent 1.2 million upgrading their campus TV station to go to HD.
They now broadcast all basketball games for example using SIX cameras!
PBP
Maybe NAU has better connecting flights than they used to, because I know a lot of teams used to have to bus from Phoenix. I think it was the first time that the Big Sky experimented with a Friday/Saturday basketball format, and a big complaint from many was that it was extremely difficult to play in Flagstaff Friday night and then bus to Phoenix to fly out for the next night's game. In fact, didn't ISU get delayed not so many years ago doing this and arrived just a mere few hours before the next night's game in Sacramento (or someplace like that)?
Of course charter flights could fly right in and out of there.
Of course charter flights could fly right in and out of there.
That was the nightmare trip to Eastern Washington and Portland State.
They lost Friday night in Cheney, got to the airport early only to be told the flight had mechnical issues. Didn't leave until noonish, arrived in Portland around 2:30. Ate before the team even checked into the hotel.
Rushed to the hotel, changed clothes, rushed to the gym (no time for a pregame shoot around) Played first half, led by nine...then in the second half, the legs collapsed like overcooked pasta. No chance.
Laughable that the conference would do this insanity. They tried it around 2001, changed back after one year, tried it again in 2009 and again it only lasted one season.
Wouldn't surprise me if they tried it again around 2017...sometimes new people on hand (A.D.'s and coaches) who didn't go through it before have no idea what they are voting on.
Regarding NAU I assume things have changed since Dink would know first-hand.
PBP
They lost Friday night in Cheney, got to the airport early only to be told the flight had mechnical issues. Didn't leave until noonish, arrived in Portland around 2:30. Ate before the team even checked into the hotel.
Rushed to the hotel, changed clothes, rushed to the gym (no time for a pregame shoot around) Played first half, led by nine...then in the second half, the legs collapsed like overcooked pasta. No chance.
Laughable that the conference would do this insanity. They tried it around 2001, changed back after one year, tried it again in 2009 and again it only lasted one season.
Wouldn't surprise me if they tried it again around 2017...sometimes new people on hand (A.D.'s and coaches) who didn't go through it before have no idea what they are voting on.
Regarding NAU I assume things have changed since Dink would know first-hand.
PBP
Skippy wrote:
"But Idaho fans who berate the Big Sky are free to encourage their administrators to take their vagabond program elsewhere -- anywhere that will have them. I would remind them that ISU has beaten the Vandals the last five times they have played, and their "WAC juggernaut" is averaging a robust 1077 fans a game. Obviously, their administrators think a stable Big Sky -- struggling though it may be -- is a better resting place than a WAC that is collecting members from throughout the free world in a desperate attempt at survival."
For years, they've been spouting off about their fan support on the court and on the gridiron. Well, as Skippy indicated, this year their home basketball crowd average is a paltry 1000 fans or so. Let's put their attendance into perspective. Last year, with 338 D1 teams considered, the average home team attendance was 4994. Idaho averaged 1517 while the Bengals averaged 2255. Easy math, ISU has almost 50% more in home attendance than Idaho. ISU lists the capacity of Holt at 8000 and Idaho lists the Cowan Spectrum capacity at 6000. Using last years numbers, ISU's attendance is just over 28% of capacity while the Vandals' attendance is just over 25% capacity. Again, quoting Skippy with this year's numbers, their home attendance is off by a third when compared to last year (1077/6000 or 17% of capacity). No disrespect to the Big Sky Conference, but they could do better by leaving Idaho hanging in independence limbo.
In researching these numbers, I found nothing to indicate an average venue capacity. But, if ISU were able to reach the overall NCAA D1 average, Holt would be at 62% of capacity at each and every home game. On the other hand, Idaho with a smaller venue and fewer butts in the seats would an overall average of 83% of capacity.
The Vandal fans have no appreciation for the Big Sky Conference and the life raft they provided their school. Instead, they are openly suggesting the BSC is their home until something better comes along. Digest these numbers and tell me why Idaho shouldn't appreciate their upcoming membership in the Big Sky Conference. They bring very little to the table.
Sources: ncaa.org, isubengals.com, govandals.com
"But Idaho fans who berate the Big Sky are free to encourage their administrators to take their vagabond program elsewhere -- anywhere that will have them. I would remind them that ISU has beaten the Vandals the last five times they have played, and their "WAC juggernaut" is averaging a robust 1077 fans a game. Obviously, their administrators think a stable Big Sky -- struggling though it may be -- is a better resting place than a WAC that is collecting members from throughout the free world in a desperate attempt at survival."
For years, they've been spouting off about their fan support on the court and on the gridiron. Well, as Skippy indicated, this year their home basketball crowd average is a paltry 1000 fans or so. Let's put their attendance into perspective. Last year, with 338 D1 teams considered, the average home team attendance was 4994. Idaho averaged 1517 while the Bengals averaged 2255. Easy math, ISU has almost 50% more in home attendance than Idaho. ISU lists the capacity of Holt at 8000 and Idaho lists the Cowan Spectrum capacity at 6000. Using last years numbers, ISU's attendance is just over 28% of capacity while the Vandals' attendance is just over 25% capacity. Again, quoting Skippy with this year's numbers, their home attendance is off by a third when compared to last year (1077/6000 or 17% of capacity). No disrespect to the Big Sky Conference, but they could do better by leaving Idaho hanging in independence limbo.
In researching these numbers, I found nothing to indicate an average venue capacity. But, if ISU were able to reach the overall NCAA D1 average, Holt would be at 62% of capacity at each and every home game. On the other hand, Idaho with a smaller venue and fewer butts in the seats would an overall average of 83% of capacity.
The Vandal fans have no appreciation for the Big Sky Conference and the life raft they provided their school. Instead, they are openly suggesting the BSC is their home until something better comes along. Digest these numbers and tell me why Idaho shouldn't appreciate their upcoming membership in the Big Sky Conference. They bring very little to the table.
Sources: ncaa.org, isubengals.com, govandals.com
I suspect the Idaho fans making those claims are in the minority. Read the message boards at the Idaho Statesman when they do a story on conference realignment for example and the majority of posts are in favor of the Big Sky and critical of the athletic department at Idaho for not realizing this sooner.
They are going "independent" for a short period of time in football to placate a vocal minority some of whom are big boosters who feel UI MUST play at the highest level of football.
When it doesn't work in a few years, when Idaho is losing 10 games a year, having trouble getting home games and drawing poorly the administration can tell the vocal minority, "hey we tried...it didn't work. Football is dropping down and rejoining the Big Sky".,..where they should have remained from the start.
PBP
They are going "independent" for a short period of time in football to placate a vocal minority some of whom are big boosters who feel UI MUST play at the highest level of football.
When it doesn't work in a few years, when Idaho is losing 10 games a year, having trouble getting home games and drawing poorly the administration can tell the vocal minority, "hey we tried...it didn't work. Football is dropping down and rejoining the Big Sky".,..where they should have remained from the start.
PBP
spazdog1 said:Skippy wrote:
"But Idaho fans who berate the Big Sky are free to encourage their administrators to take their vagabond program elsewhere -- anywhere that will have them. I would remind them that ISU has beaten the Vandals the last five times they have played, and their "WAC juggernaut" is averaging a robust 1077 fans a game. Obviously, their administrators think a stable Big Sky -- struggling though it may be -- is a better resting place than a WAC that is collecting members from throughout the free world in a desperate attempt at survival."
For years, they've been spouting off about their fan support on the court and on the gridiron. Well, as Skippy indicated, this year their home basketball crowd average is a paltry 1000 fans or so. Let's put their attendance into perspective. Last year, with 338 D1 teams considered, the average home team attendance was 4994. Idaho averaged 1517 while the Bengals averaged 2255. Easy math, ISU has almost 50% more in home attendance than Idaho. ISU lists the capacity of Holt at 8000 and Idaho lists the Cowan Spectrum capacity at 6000. Using last years numbers, ISU's attendance is just over 28% of capacity while the Vandals' attendance is just over 25% capacity. Again, quoting Skippy with this year's numbers, their home attendance is off by a third when compared to last year (1077/6000 or 17% of capacity). No disrespect to the Big Sky Conference, but they could do better by leaving Idaho hanging in independence limbo.
In researching these numbers, I found nothing to indicate an average venue capacity. But, if ISU were able to reach the overall NCAA D1 average, Holt would be at 62% of capacity at each and every home game. On the other hand, Idaho with a smaller venue and fewer butts in the seats would result in an overall average of 83% of capacity.
The Vandal fans have no appreciation for the Big Sky Conference and the life raft they provided their school. Instead, they are openly suggesting the BSC is their home until something better comes along. Digest these numbers and tell me why Idaho shouldn't appreciate their upcoming membership in the Big Sky Conference. They bring very little to the table.
Sources: ncaa.org, isubengals.com, govandals.com
I mistakenly listed the venue figures for Reed Gym, not Holt Arena. I corrected the figures accordingly. Sorry for the misinformation.
boisebengal
Active member
I'll be over there this weekend for the game, and honestly for some time I didn't think we'd have much of a chance against Idaho. But the way we've played against MSU and Montana I think this is a winnable game and Evans certainly does get the most from his players. We just need to recruit a little bit better talent for the coming years and we'll be in good shape.
Thanks for posting the video. He tried his hardest to make it sound like this is a rivalry game. I supposed to a certain extent, he's right. Did anyone else notice the dig he made when he said that the Bengals didn't want to play the Vandals? Maybe so, but this is the first time I've heard of that.
