Where are all the people?

[ajwildcat]

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2016/02/09/weber-state-basketball-attendance-nba-scouts-joel-bolomboy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The local fish wrap wrote a story on the lack of attendance and asking why its over 300 less season tix sold than last year. "attendance has averaged 6,539 per game this season, down from 6,829 last season. These figures refer only to the amount of tickets sold"
Let me take a shot at this.
First was probably the shit non-conf home schedule
2nd: The Road to Reno basically makes the regular season pointless
3rd: All the home games are on TV for FREE.

These were my top 3 reasons for not buying tix this year. Anyone have anything to add or think i'm wrong? :twocents:


p.s these are just my own opinions, not looking to piss anyone off. But hell I didn't write the article. :doh:

 

[RunnerJoe]

Interesting article by Garside. I would have to say that this is one of his better pieces. I think an interesting follow up piece would be to ask alumni and people of Ogden why they don't attend games. It would be interesting to see if the "Road to Reno" has played a role in people not attending games but I doubt it.
Sadly, I don't think the Dee will ever be sold out or even close until we host another tournament championship game or something to that extent.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Easy answers, surprised "tickets sold" haven't dropped more. The administration & coaches should know the answers, it isn't rocket science! Coach Rahe's scheduling of such teams as Ant. Valley, PU, St Katherine's, etc. isn't going to attract interest, period! So the beat goes on & on and the poor marketing as well for the few attractive opponents doesn't help.

Just view the attendance for the USU game, that speaks volumes as to what draws. That will likely lessen soon with Rahe's low emphasis of OOC game's importance & lack of success against the instate big bros. teams.

As for me, agree with RunneJoe & ajwildcat, except switch #2 with #3 reason & like mentioned, the Road to Reno effect is a factor but not as much as the other two.

The excitement of Weber State basketball has diminished for some of us fans & it started the last few years with some frustrating losses & an acceptance of mediocrity. :-(

 

[WSUProf]

I wonder how much impact the TV contract has had. I know I stayed home one snowy night. And I know a couple of friends who have stayed home a couple of nights and watched it on TV instead of going to the Dee.
AS for the "road to reno," hearing some of the fans who sit around me that has had no impact, since they weren't even aware of it.

 

[WILDCAT]

1. Lack of quality OOC home games.
2. Home games are on TV

 

[SWeberCat02]

Reasons I didn't renew

1. Terrible home schedule

2. This>

The excitement of Weber State basketball has diminished for some of us fans & it started the last few years with some frustrating losses & an acceptance of mediocrity. :-(

 

[SWeberCat02]

Don't really like Garside's tone trying to make fans feel bad for choosing not to attend games. This is a problem created by the University and can only be solved by the University. There are fans that will attend no matter what (oldrunner), but most will choose how to spend their money based on the quality of the product. That's marketing 101.

I really wish Weber would just announce the real actual attendance instead of just paid attendance, or whatever they announce. No reason to be misleading. :twocents:

 

[Webergrad02]

This is my favorite line by Flapjack:
"I find it sad that there aren’t more fans at the games, taking pride in community and supporting the local university when there is so much going for it."

Lets talk about taking pride in the community. Last year our AD told local businesses and others that he was going to do everything in his power to keep the conference tournament from going to Reno or Billings. Then he voted for it! Yes his one dissenting vote wouldn't have changed the outcome. I understand that. But his dissenting vote would have shown me (a local business owner that depends on people having events in Ogden) that he cared about our community more than taking up the conference flag.

Most of the sponsors support Weber athletics because of that pride in our University and community. Most of the sponsors are local owned businesses. I am not sure that Farrs Jewelry sells a bunch of engagement rings because people saw the spin around the baseball bat game or that the curtain of distraction leads to a huge amount of Subaru's being sold.

I would add that all the double speak and excuse making from coach has disenchanted some fans. How about the athletic department take pride in the community and hire someone who will market to students and the community. The university has had the whole marketing and community relations thing on cruise control for the better part of 5 years.

 

[Webergrad02]

Don't really like Garside's tone trying to make fans feel bad for choosing not to attend games. This is a problem created by the University and can only be solved by the University. There are fans that will attend no matter what (oldrunner), but most will choose how to spend their money based on the quality of the product. That's marketing 101.

I really wish Weber would just announce the real actual attendance instead of just paid attendance, or whatever they announce. No reason to be misleading. :twocents:

I could not agree more. I think if we gain any information from this piece it is that Garsides allegiance to Weber started with calling games a few years back as a student and he has had a difficult time being a journalist.

 

[oldrunner]

It's all about 'STUDENTS', past and present. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

[weberwildcat]

attendance doesn't matter until we get 500 students to a game. minus usu and hosting have we done that in the past decade?

 

[n.ogdencat]

Oldrunner is right...it is all about the students. Why are most of us die-hard fans? Because we went to Weber State and had good experiences, and while students at the institution became enamored with the various athletic programs sponsored by the university (Basketball). No...not every student is going to become fans. A lot aren't, but there are a lot that would and will, but they aren't being invited, pursued, or approached. No one is concerned. They just want to do enough. "JUST ENOUGH" motto of Weber State Athletics.

To me, it is obvious, that the university isn't really interested in building a fan base. Proof?? They aren't concerned about getting students out. Instead of doing the work...they pass the buck and point a finger.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Oldrunner is right...it is all about the students. Why are most of us die-hard fans? Because we went to Weber State and had good experiences, and while students at the institution became enamored with the various athletic programs sponsored by the university (Basketball). No...not every student is going to become fans. A lot aren't, but there are a lot that would and will, but they aren't being invited, pursued, or approached. No one is concerned. They just want to do enough. "JUST ENOUGH" motto of Weber State Athletics.

To me, it is obvious, that the university isn't really interested in building a fan base. Proof?? They aren't concerned about getting students out. Instead of doing the work...they pass the buck and point a finger.

I would add that all the double speak and excuse making from coach has disenchanted some fans. How about the athletic department take pride in the community and hire someone who will market to students and the community. The university has had the whole marketing and community relations thing on cruise control for the better part of 5 years.

:clap: Generally speaking, this says it clearly!

 

[UtahPirate]

I'm going to throw in something different since the major points seem to be covered. And I've watched two games at home, the snowy night WSUProf mentioned and a night I had planned to go but had to work late. But my season tickets still counted in the attendance. I'm sure others are finding the comforts of the easy chair a good choice for not coming.

This is addressing the lack of student support...

Last night I went to a Tuesday high school basketball game at Viewmont who was playing Layton. I was surprised and disappointed at the lack of student involvement for both schools -- and this was a pretty good matchup of a first and second place team. I think more and more high school kids are disconnecting with basketball at their own schools which makes creating interest when they come to Weber more difficult. They just don't have the connection with the game. I've noticed the same thing at the state basketball tournament with many schools having very small representations from their students. Football continues to be a bigger draw in state, and with audiences in general.

I'm older than Oldrunner (so I wouldn't dare put my real picture for my avatar as he has done)... but if anybody would like to throw in an opinion on whether this seems to be a trend... or not... I'd love to hear. I just know that there are very few employees at the company I work for (full of 20 and 30 somethings) that I can have a decent college basketball conversation with. If you don't market to them hard (and really hard), they are not going to come cause they've never gone before.

 

[Webergrad02]

I think kids today are disconnecting with many physical activities in general. If there is not an app for it, they are not interested. I don't think kids are as active as they once were in general. I have a daughter that sends over 6,000 texts messages a month. Who has time for that?

I read an article that attributed footballs growing population among the younger generation to Fantasy football. I am not sure what the answer is for basketball. I know that Utah was viewed as Indiana of the West for its love for BBall. I said it on another thread, but as I have been looking at all of the Bruce Collins stuff, It was amazing how many fans we used to get regularly.

USU has a healthy student section. Even when they are not doing real well. We need to change the culture at Weber State. One reason that football in Utah is more popular is that Urban Meyer came in and changed the culture. Urban helped the students create the MUSS and it has helped transform the entire experience. Our students leaders don't give to craps about basketball and it shows.

 

[Geo-Guy15]

Interesting article by Garside...

I think this speaks to nature of college basketball in general across the country more than just specific to Weber State. College basketball attendance is down from its glory days when gigantic areas were being build right and left across the country.

These days, FOOTBALL is king. Period. More and more people are caring less and less about college basketball and solely getting a sports fix on football. And not Weber's brand of football (don't get me wrong I'm a huge Wildcat football fan too). Don't believe me? Turn on 1280 the Zone or ESPN 700. College football season has been over for over a month, and for most teams longer than that. They are still talking about college football relentlessly on local sports talk radio. I know signing day was last week, but it is just non-stop. They talk more about college football in the offseason than they do about college basketball in the middle of conference play! When was the last time you heard The Zone do a 2 hour segment on a college basketball recruit? College basketball is losing its appeal to many people.

Lack of meaningful non-conference home games. Hopefully we can continue to schedule BYU and USU home and home but I would not be surprised to see those eventually go away. At the end of the day, this is money making business and some of the "bigger" schools see coming to the Dee as suicide. We are good, not great. The big teams could lose, but probably wont... Why take that chance as a big school when a NCAA tourney bid is very likely? Utah has fallen into this category and chases the money more than the respect of local fanbases. Long gone are the days when college athletics were a regional interest. With the advances in technology, and the abhorrent amounts of money that can be made or lost, it has to be national attention or bust for big conference programs.

Over-abundance of sports viewing options. On any given day between November and March, you can find games on one of the 10 or so major cable sports channels that is featuring a "big game." And if you have a "sports package" with your cable or dish then it is 5X that. Interest in local sports wanes when you can easily access every single NFL, college football, or NBA game of the season, on demand, in HD, and from 500 camera angles. Look I love watching big time pro sports as much as the next guy, but for non-diehard Weber fans I think that big games with Superstars are all the casual sports fan cares about.

Student Interest It's not that students don't like sports, it's that they'd rather watch LeBron in ultra high def on a 50 inch screen than come to the Dee. As a recent graduate (May 2015) I know that little is going on on campus to excite the student body about athletics. I met many many sports fans in my days at weber, but they were primarily NFL, NBA, and big time college football fans. Most students view Weber as a tier below even the other schools in Utah and its not really the cool thing to do to go to the games. Success will change that. I believe that success on the court and on the field is really the only way that that will really change.

I disagree with many posters on the last one:

Games on KJZZ. Are people really complaining about this?! This is awesome. I don't live in Ogden anymore and can only get up to maybe 3-4 games a year (it's over an hour drive each way). This does a lot to promote the Weber brand and spread awareness that we still play good basketball up in Ogden! A few hundred people may stay home and not go to the games but how many people are renewing their interest or beginning an interest in Wildcat basketball because of this. The TV deal is a win. Period. Successful programs secure TV deals. We are on TV every home game now, and that is nothing to complain about.

Lastly, on a side note, there are often negative things said about Brandon Garside and his reporting on the forum. I just want to say, I know Brandon personally. I worked at KWCR when he was the sports director there. He is serious about his job and takes pride in his work. He is in his mid 20s. Give him a break! I'm sure most of you would hate to be judged for everything you did at work when you were 26. He does a good job with the resources and experience he has. It's not as easy as it may seem to be a reporter, so cut the guy some slack! At least we are getting coverage of WSU athletics. It's not ESPN or CBS Sports. It's the Standard Examiner Sports page with a recent grad trying to kickstart his career! Give the guy a break. I enjoy his articles.

Sorry for the wordy post. Go Weber!

 

[Webergrad02]

Interesting article by Garside...

Lastly, on a side note, there are often negative things said about Brandon Garside and his reporting on the forum. I just want to say, I know Brandon personally. I worked at KWCR when he was the sports director there. He is serious about his job and takes pride in his work. He is in his mid 20s. Give him a break! I'm sure most of you would hate to be judged for everything you did at work when you were 26. He does a good job with the resources and experience he has. It's not as easy as it may seem to be a reporter, so cut the guy some slack! At least we are getting coverage of WSU athletics. It's not ESPN or CBS Sports. It's the Standard Examiner Sports page with a recent grad trying to kickstart his career! Give the guy a break. I enjoy his articles.

So basically you are saying that Brandon is young and inexperienced as a reporter but he is going to keep scratching and clawing and will figure it out.

Welcome to the message board coach!

 

[SWWeatherCat]

... as I have been looking at all of the Bruce Collins stuff, It was amazing how many fans we used to get regularly.

Not sure why I'm even commenting as I've lost interest in complaining and caring why Weber Athletics does or doesn't do the things it does, or why they seem to have little concern for their community and withering fan base, but...

I disagree that it's all about the students, there has never been what would be considered strong student support. Better? Yes. Strong? Nope. The overwhelming majority of paying fans in seats in the Bruce Collins' days were not students, rather, local citizens who had some pride in their community and school. I was a fan nearly ten years before I was a student. My love for WSU athletics came from an introduction by family but developed due to the energy and pride the community took in it. There weren't any groups running around campus making sure that students knew about the games and trying to generate excitement that I remember. It was just something that was part of the community that was exciting and you wanted to share in. I have a daughter playing her second year of high school basketball and although there are certainly varying levels of support for different schools, the ones supported best all seem to be the ones with strong community ties, very much including high schools that serve students from only that one town in which the school resides. Again, more unity and pride in "your community" that includes "your school."

I don't understand the concept of using ticket "attendance" instead of those who are actually in attendance for comparison, decision making, and arguments sake, especially when the ticket count can be very misleading. The students don't pay for their tickets-- well, they do in a way but they don't pull $$$ out of their pocket to attend games-- so why would you count anything but scanned SID cards as part of the attendance? How many season tickets, including corporate tickets, go unused except for literally the few games of interest? How many "family pack" season tickets sold actually equate to butts in seats? What's the benefit of including those sold tickets as "attendance" numbers when the TV screen tells a different story? It's one thing to know how much revenue you're generating, it something completely different to know how many people are attending.

For the first time in over 20 years I chose not to renew my tix this year for reasons I've posted many times, none of which have to do with games being televised. I would have been watching via internet stream had KJZZ not broadcast the home games, so would have others I know. I would much rather watch a game in person than on a 50" plasma screen any day, there is no comparison as to which is more exciting and entertaining. When it comes down to it, and I don't think I'm alone in my basic business thinking, if the product isn't worth the cost, it isn't going to sell well. For me, there are a handful of parts to that "worth," including being valued as a (once) long-time customer. There has been a range of many things over the last 8-10 years that has gradually brought me to this point. Interestingly, the talent of the players might be as good as ever.

 

[Back2WSU]

Geo Guy, I just want to say you are the first person on this board I have agreed with in a long time. I know Garside also, and I think a big part of the criticisms he receives on this board are because the posters on here don't understand what it's like to be a journalist. They have ideas of what should be asked, and they think that because they ask their questions they are going to get the exact answers they want.

Honestly the impression I get sometimes from the people on here is they want the coverage of Weber State sports to be hard hitting like covering Watergate or something.

 

[Webergrad02]

Geo Guy, I just want to say you are the first person on this board I have agreed with in a long time. I know Garside also, and I think a big part of the criticisms he receives on this board are because the posters on here don't understand what it's like to be a journalist. They have ideas of what should be asked, and they think that because they ask their questions they are going to get the exact answers they want.

Honestly the impression I get sometimes from the people on here is they want the coverage of Weber State sports to be hard hitting like covering Watergate or something.

The biggest problem that I have is that I have a very similar degree as Brandon, took journalism classes and wrote for the Signpost for 2 years. Most of the stuff he writes is so one sided that it probably wouldn't fly at the Signpost. He rarely covers both sides of an issue. He asks questions and then doesn't answer them. Go back and compare Hollis' stories to Brandon's. Compare Burtons for that matter and you will see a huge difference. I have also noticed that Brandon's stories have more detail issues than the others. Plus it bugs me that he refers to Jay and Randy as his "buddies or "bros". (privately to friends)

It could have been his editors mistake, but did anyone else catch this beauty?