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WSU FT% vs

SWWeatherCat

SWWeatherCat

Active member
OK, so I looked at the recent comments in the Sac St. thread about Weber's free throw shooting (or lack there of) and decided to take a closer look at a couple of aspects of it. I don't know if what I threw together makes any sense or not but as a team and per game, it doesn't look to me like poor FT shooting is hurting Weber all that much.

Before you start telling me I'm nuts, know that I would like to see Weber in much better shape when it comes to free throws and especially by certain players, and there's no question how important FTs are at the end of a close game. Still, I don't think Weber is fairing all that badly when you look at a slightly bigger picture than just team FT% or poor individual percentages.

Weber ranks 132nd overall in team FT%, 12th out of 17 against this season's opponents, and 7th out of 11 in the BSC. Doesn't sound too hot-- and isn't-- but when comparing to their opponents and adding FTs attempted per game and potential FT points per game, they don't look too shabby.

On the attached image, there are two charts, one with Weber vs ALL of this season's opponents (to date) and one vs the BSC only. The columns show team FT% and rank, FT attempted per game, potential FT points per game, and the difference in potential points per game vs Weber. A green cell background indicates the best in the column; red indicates the worst; and yellow means the value is above the average. In the right-most column, a purple cell background indicates Weber having more potential FT points per game than that opponent.

Just for good measure, the WSU players who play in 75% of the games and attempt at least 2.5 FTs per game are listed with their FT% and BSC rank.

Thoughts? Observations?
 
I really don't care what type of statistics that you can come up with... I can't remember how many games I've been to where we would have won the game if we had made our free throws. Back when Andrew Bogut was at Utah and we had Lance Allred, we would have beat them if we had made our free throws... 2003 Weber State hoops in Cheney Washington would have had an easier time in that game if Weber had made their free throws 2009 loss against Montana State, the loss here against Montana in the championship game, and the loss up there... FREE FREE FREE throws! East Carolina... (I think I've made my point)

Shooting free throws is one of the most important parts of the game. Case in point, Karl Malone at the line in Chicago 1997 finals, 82-82, misses BOTH free throws, next thing you know Jordan has run down the floor and has yet another buzzer beater.

Regardless, free throws are incredibly important. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

I call out Tres, Bolomboy, and Berry!!! :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
 
I think that one of the reasons it gets under our skin so much is that, in the not too distant past, we have had some outstanding free through shooting teams. We have had teams that have won several close games on the freebies. I know that we have been ranked in the top 10 nationally, in years past. I think we will be in the future as well. Right now, we have some guys who have good form at the line and others with some of the worst form I have seen in a while. Some of our guys make me cringe when I watch them shoot. I have asked the coaches about it and have been told that it will be an off season training emphasis, but that we are wrapped up in game preparations for the rest of the season and have little time to start breaking down their form. :roll:
 
oldrunner said:
I think that one of the reasons it gets under our skin so much is that, in the not too distant past, we have had some outstanding free through shooting teams. We have had teams that have won several close games on the freebies. I know that we have been ranked in the top 10 nationally, in years past. I think we will be in the future as well. Right now, we have some guys who have good form at the line and others with some of the worst form I have seen in a while. Some of our guys make me cringe when I watch them shoot. I have asked the coaches about it and have been told that it will be an off season training emphasis, but that we are wrapped up in game preparations for the rest of the season and have little time to start breaking down their form. :roll:
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What about Tres? 4 years &... It looks to me like he whips the ball to far above his head, at which point he loses control of his shot. Square up the elbow & release the shot in front of your damn face where you can watch it leave your hand & straight into the hoop Tres.
 
bengalhater said:
One of these teams come in here and make their freebies, and we miss 10 or 12, it will be hard to win. :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:
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No doubt, I said right up front I realize how important FTs are, especially at the end of a close one but you can't look at that single stat and get the whole story. If you notice, Weber is getting to the line far more than any other BSC team and their team FT% isn't horrible-- not great, but not horrible. A team can be a great FT shooting team but if they don't get to the line often there's not nearly as much advantage. I believe this is proof of Weber's stronger overall athleticism. Yes, it will help when they shoot constantly better from the line, but getting there more often helps offset their misses some.

Another thing to consider with regards to FT shooting falls right in the lap of the coaches. When the other team is in a "must foul" situation, the coaches need to be smart enough to have the players running plays that will get the ball in the hands of our more reliable shooters. Senglin, Berry? Yes! Gittens, Tres, Joel? No so much. Along with general in-bounding and breaking the press/trap has not been a strength by any means.

Also, talking about games from past seasons doesn't apply in this conversation for obvious reasons.
 
I know that it will sound a little ridiculous, but I really think that we could use a coach, on the staff, who is a shooting specialist. It was pointed out that Tres pulls the ball in front of his face. Hill does the same thing, only worse. I'm beginning to wonder if the coaches are seeing it at all. You would think that those two would have been corrected already. We are seeing it from the stands, a good shooting coach would have seen it the first day and would have already taken care of it. Gittens form looks much better. He just seems to lack confidence, maybe a little freshmanitis. :coffee:
 
oldrunner said:
I know that it will sound a little ridiculous, but I really think that we could use a coach, on the staff, who is a shooting specialist. It was pointed out that Tres pulls the ball in front of his face. Hill does the same thing, only worse. I'm beginning to wonder if the coaches are seeing it at all. You would think that those two would have been corrected already. We are seeing it from the stands, a good shooting coach would have seen it the first day and would have already taken care of it. Gittens form looks much better. He just seems to lack confidence, maybe a little freshmanitis. :coffee:
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...and Joel just has an odd release altogether, if not entire motion. I don't think it would be ridiculous to have a "shooting mechanics" specialist but I kinda doubt they would have much time in-season. I would also worry about messing up what does work. Even if the shooting form isn't good, might it get worse? College seems a little late to be trying to make major changes in something like that.
 
oldrunner said:
I know that it will sound a little ridiculous, but I really think that we could use a coach, on the staff, who is a shooting specialist. It was pointed out that Tres pulls the ball in front of his face. Hill does the same thing, only worse. I'm beginning to wonder if the coaches are seeing it at all. You would think that those two would have been corrected already. We are seeing it from the stands, a good shooting coach would have seen it the first day and would have already taken care of it. Gittens form looks much better. He just seems to lack confidence, maybe a little freshmanitis. :coffee:
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Hill has great rotation on the ball, he has hope for sure, but he's already been here for a year and a half without what seem like obvious corrections in form, his particular (& not helpful) wrist flick 3/4 way into his shot is probably in his DNA at this point though
 
I disagree. I believe that anyone can be taught to shoot a proper free through. It doesn't really take that long either. One of the best I have ever seen at teaching it was Ron A. I watched him take a kid who couldn't through it in the ocean, if he was standing on the beach, and make him into a 70% shooter in a matter of days. I am a believer in function following form, in the case of FT shooting. :nod:
 
oldrunner said:
I disagree. I believe that anyone can be taught to shoot a proper free through. It doesn't really take that long either. One of the best I have ever seen at teaching it was Ron A. I watched him take a kid who couldn't through it in the ocean, if he was standing on the beach, and make him into a 70% shooter in a matter of days. I am a believer in function following form, in the case of FT shooting. :nod:
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I agree with you here, what are you disagreeing about? I disagree with SWweathercat, I think a lot of coaching can be done at this level in regards to shooting. Andy Enfield got a couple of tourney wins last year at Florida Gulf Coast & hired at USC is probably most well known for his ability to coach kids how to shoot. "The shot doctor"
 
I was disagreeing that it is in his DNA.

I tied my shoes the wrong way for over 40 years. They would regularly come untied unless double knotted. It took five minutes to learn the right way to do it. Now I never miss. After being a lifetime 50% FT shooter, Ron A. had me shooting 70%, with either hand, in one day. I proved that it was not in my DNA. A person just need to be willing to learn. This isn't rocket science.

FT shooting is a good foundation for jump shooting as well. Generally speaking, great shooters have great shooting form. :coffee:
 
vs Sacramento State we shot 25-34 freethrows, missed 9 Sac went 25-29 missed 4 Both teams make all their freebies we win the game by 2. Weber only needed to make 1 more freethrow to win the game.

Big Sky Championship last year in Missoula we lost by 3. missed 9 freethrows

CIT Championship game lost by 3 missed 10 freethrows.

Freethrows have killed this team these last two seasons.

It also doesnt help when your senior guard goes 0-8 including 0-7 from 3 land. Most of his 3's were wide open shots too. I have been less than impressed with Jordan this year :ohno:
 
Jordan has had games where he was very good. It seems to be all or nothing for him. I think that he will have a good game tonight. You rarely see him have two bad games in a row. :rockon:
 
oldrunner said:
Jordan has had games where he was very good. It seems to be all or nothing for him. I think that he will have a good game tonight. You rarely see him have two bad games in a row. :rockon:
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I like Jordan dont get me wrong, I just want to see some consistancy with the guy, if he is wide open there is no reason he shouldnt be draining the three balls. Heck the guy is aggressive, his rebound against Idaho State was CLUTCH, he does play well, but I want to see the guy score and drain three's on a consistant basis.
 
Purple_Posse said:
24 of 27 for 88.9% last night, so it can be done.
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Two straight home games, Joel has been on at the line, whereas, he could be counted amongst those who struggled at SAC-- just an observation.
 
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