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SWWeatherCat said:
WILDCAT said:
For once I'd like a game not be decided because we can't make freethrows.

It was a tough game but late turnovers and missed freethrows cost Weber the game

You don't think getting down double-digits early and being out-rebound 42-25 had anything to do with this one? I'm not sure how points in the paint compare but have a feeling the front court got worked too.


This game was decided by a coach who can't coach. I'm tired of the school wasting $450k a year on games like these(Rahe's salary). I'm convinced we could get a coach for $200k that gets the same results, but we could put the extra $250k towards a decent home schedule.
 
OK. Let's all just calm the hell down. First, if you think we're going to find a better coach than Randy at less than $300k per year, your dreaming. Second, the terrible home schedule has less to do with Randy than it does with Jerry Bovee and unfortunate circumstances (successful mid-major program that doesn't have enough money to afford home-game payouts).

Lastly, I think expectations may need to be tempered a bit this season. Yes, we should always expect a Big Sky championship. That's a standard that has been set at Weber State for decades. However, we just graduated the best post presence the Big Sky has seen in 25+ years. That's not easily replaceable. Braxton and Dallas are going to go through some growing pains. We won't have the dominating presence on the boards that we are used to, which is why we've seen the live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 outcomes early this season. Our preseason schedule is tough. Denver and UVU won't be easy, BYU and Utah State are obviously difficult. However, time and time again, Randy's squads are battle tested because of these difficult preseason schedules, it prepares them for the Big Sky, and it almost always pays off (even if the home schedule is crap).
 
baller said:
I have, up to now, believed Rahe was an adequate coach. I no longer think that... he is not creative, not flexible, doesn't get his team ready to play consistently and many other things that should be in his coaching skill set that are not. If we are satisfied with his results in the past then keep him. But if we keep him don't expect things to get better. I am now convinced that he should be replaced in an attempt to move the program to the next level.
Up to now I always believed that this was a forum of Weber supporters. This forum is full of phony what have you done for me lately crybabies. Whatever happened to the good and the bad I'm a firm believer in these kids and the coach. Do you honestly believe Weber is the only team on the floor baller.
 
WSUfan said:
I have been silent during the Alaska tournament. But some on here, I believe longtimecat, used the Florida tournament as a gauge to the teams success last season. So how are we gauged now? 1-2 against comparable teams, not sure how this did us any good? Looks like UVU will win in Ogden. Sad. Rahe simply cannot coach. Tonight was another classical example of Rahe meltdown. Like others have expressed, great recruiter, terrible coach. He has back 90%. Of the same roster. What is there still to learn? Why can't we be competitive? We will win "league" and be happily on our way...
Welcome back ncaa football or I mean wsufan I ask you again where do you coach? Please put in your resume cause you have it all figured out.
 
hawkssb04 said:
OK. Let's all just calm the hell down. First, if you think we're going to find a better coach than Randy at less than $300k per year, your dreaming. Second, the terrible home schedule has less to do with Randy than it does with Jerry Bovee and unfortunate circumstances (successful mid-major program that doesn't have enough money to afford home-game payouts).

Lastly, I think expectations may need to be tempered a bit this season. Yes, we should always expect a Big Sky championship. That's a standard that has been set at Weber State for decades. However, we just graduated the best post presence the Big Sky has seen in 25+ years. That's not easily replaceable. Braxton and Dallas are going to go through some growing pains. We won't have the dominating presence on the boards that we are used to, which is why we've seen the live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 outcomes early this season. Our preseason schedule is tough. Denver and UVU won't be easy, BYU and Utah State are obviously difficult. However, time and time again, Randy's squads are battle tested because of these difficult preseason schedules, it prepares them for the Big Sky, and it almost always pays off (even if the home schedule is crap).

It must have been a dream when I watched Mark Pope's (salary 230,000) hold on to their second half lead to beat the Cougars at the Marriott center. When BYU put the pressure on late they were calm didn't turn it over, threw some nice passes over the top of the press and most important they made their foul shots. They were playing to win instead of trying not to lose. Pope is doing it with low level D1 talent, And yes he makes under 300K.

This Weber State team has some fatal flaws that make it very difficult to win without shooting over %50 from the three. You combine that with the prevent offense we play if we have a close lead and we are doomed in these games.I am glad you brought up Braxton and Dallas. How can Dallas be going through growing pains when is such a liability that he can't even see the floor? Braxton can't do it all himself especially when he picks up quick fouls. That leaves the post to Hill and Baker. Randy kept saying is #1 goal was to bring in a big that could contibute and then he brings in Darling. The staff has known that Dallas is not going to cut it but yet we hoped it would work.

My biggest argument with your logic is that our two other fatal flaws rest on the backs of our senior players. Our seniors combined for 20 turnovers this weekend. Then please explain to me how we can be this bad at foul shooting? It is like we almost shoot as good from 3 as we do from the foul line. I am sorry but there is something out of wack with this team.

At around 450,000 per year, Randy makes 14K per game played. If we had a huge budget I could understand paying that price, but consider that a big chunk of that money comes from private sources. We are sacrificing other parts of our athletic budget to pay him. He keeps using the same excuses game after game and is not saying that there are some major issues with this team. he makes about 1K for the 14+ excuses he makes after the game. Where is the accountability? This is a senior laden team without a real leader.

I think we are way too one dimensional to win the Big Sky this year. Teams can bait Zach in to a couple of cheap fouls early and then we are doomed. You look at how many minutes this team has logged together, and I think it is acceptable to have high expectations. My expectations are definatly lower now. Lets hope that as soon as the plane touched down 15 young men were on their way to shoot some free throws. Probably not!
 
Longtimecat said:
WSUfan said:
I have been silent during the Alaska tournament. But some on here, I believe longtimecat, used the Florida tournament as a gauge to the teams success last season. So how are we gauged now? 1-2 against comparable teams, not sure how this did us any good? Looks like UVU will win in Ogden. Sad. Rahe simply cannot coach. Tonight was another classical example of Rahe meltdown. Like others have expressed, great recruiter, terrible coach. He has back 90%. Of the same roster. What is there still to learn? Why can't we be competitive? We will win "league" and be happily on our way...
Welcome back ncaa football or I mean wsufan I ask you again where do you coach? Please put in your resume cause you have it all figured out.

You have a lot of room to talk Longtimecat. I am surprised that you could stay up long enough to watch the games with you being Virginia and all. Didn't we have a staffer move to the DC area within the last year. Wonder if it is you.
 
webergrad02 said:
hawkssb04 said:
OK. Let's all just calm the hell down. First, if you think we're going to find a better coach than Randy at less than $300k per year, your dreaming. Second, the terrible home schedule has less to do with Randy than it does with Jerry Bovee and unfortunate circumstances (successful mid-major program that doesn't have enough money to afford home-game payouts).

Lastly, I think expectations may need to be tempered a bit this season. Yes, we should always expect a Big Sky championship. That's a standard that has been set at Weber State for decades. However, we just graduated the best post presence the Big Sky has seen in 25+ years. That's not easily replaceable. Braxton and Dallas are going to go through some growing pains. We won't have the dominating presence on the boards that we are used to, which is why we've seen the live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 outcomes early this season. Our preseason schedule is tough. Denver and UVU won't be easy, BYU and Utah State are obviously difficult. However, time and time again, Randy's squads are battle tested because of these difficult preseason schedules, it prepares them for the Big Sky, and it almost always pays off (even if the home schedule is crap).

It must have been a dream when I watched Mark Pope's (salary 230,000) hold on to their second half lead to beat the Cougars at the Marriott center. When BYU put the pressure on late they were calm didn't turn it over, threw some nice passes over the top of the press and most important they made their foul shots. They were playing to win instead of trying not to lose. Pope is doing it with low level D1 talent, And yes he makes under 300K.

This Weber State team has some fatal flaws that make it very difficult to win without shooting over %50 from the three. You combine that with the prevent offense we play if we have a close lead and we are doomed in these games.I am glad you brought up Braxton and Dallas. How can Dallas be going through growing pains when is such a liability that he can't even see the floor? Braxton can't do it all himself especially when he picks up quick fouls. That leaves the post to Hill and Baker. Randy kept saying is #1 goal was to bring in a big that could contibute and then he brings in Darling. The staff has known that Dallas is not going to cut it but yet we hoped it would work.

My biggest argument with your logic is that our two other fatal flaws rest on the backs of our senior players. Our seniors combined for 20 turnovers this weekend. Then please explain to me how we can be this bad at foul shooting? It is like we almost shoot as good from 3 as we do from the foul line. I am sorry but there is something out of wack with this team.

At around 450,000 per year, Randy makes 14K per game played. If we had a huge budget I could understand paying that price, but consider that a big chunk of that money comes from private sources. We are sacrificing other parts of our athletic budget to pay him. He keeps using the same excuses game after game and is not saying that there are some major issues with this team. he makes about 1K for the 14+ excuses he makes after the game. Where is the accountability? This is a senior laden team without a real leader.

I think we are way too one dimensional to win the Big Sky this year. Teams can bait Zach in to a couple of cheap fouls early and then we are doomed. You look at how many minutes this team has logged together, and I think it is acceptable to have high expectations. My expectations are definatly lower now. Lets hope that as soon as the plane touched down 15 young men were on their way to shoot some free throws. Probably not!

Right on webergrad, I think many of us on here are starting to see a real trend in Rahe. Rahe is begining to describe/coach the definition of insanity. For those who watch th team practice, what do they practice? I'm afraid 90% of practice is used to learn a playbook. How much longer are donors and boosters going to put up with Rahe and his ineffective coaching? I'm seriously thinking that extension Bovee gave was a mistake. He should be evaluated at the end of each season, and given a year-to-year contract. Longtimecat, Rahe has said many times he makes his own schedule. I think Bovee should take more of a role in scheduling though. I am convinced that if Rahe let the team play without these crazy sets and play cards, the team would win more games. This team could win more with the "pick up ball" mentality. And no, I'm not ncaafootball. I'm just a fan who is tired of the same results for the past 11 years, tired of 6-37 true road OOC games, tired of losing to USU, BYU and UVU, tired of a terrible home schedule that looks like a D2 schedule, tired of the same excuses from Rahe year in and year out, tired of not making free throws, tired of not being capable of beating a press, tired of bad offensive play cards, tired of only caring about "league" games, tired of being ready by January every year, tired of one and done in the dance, tired of Reno, tired of paying Rahe $450k for the same product, tired of other teams doing better than us with much less, tired of the direction Rahe is taking this program, tired of the excuses, tired of a terrible conference we have, just plain tired of Rahe.
 
WSUfan said:
SWWeatherCat said:
WILDCAT said:
For once I'd like a game not be decided because we can't make freethrows.

It was a tough game but late turnovers and missed freethrows cost Weber the game

You don't think getting down double-digits early and being out-rebound 42-25 had anything to do with this one? I'm not sure how points in the paint compare but have a feeling the front court got worked too.


This game was decided by a coach who can't coach. I'm tired of the school wasting $450k a year on games like these(Rahe's salary). I'm convinced we could get a coach for $200k that gets the same results, but we could put the extra $250k towards a decent home schedule.


Hey look it's one of the two to three "Weber fans" that only come on to post after a loss. Heaven forbid they post anything after something positive happens
 
webergrad02 said:
Longtimecat said:
WSUfan said:
I have been silent during the Alaska tournament. But some on here, I believe longtimecat, used the Florida tournament as a gauge to the teams success last season. So how are we gauged now? 1-2 against comparable teams, not sure how this did us any good? Looks like UVU will win in Ogden. Sad. Rahe simply cannot coach. Tonight was another classical example of Rahe meltdown. Like others have expressed, great recruiter, terrible coach. He has back 90%. Of the same roster. What is there still to learn? Why can't we be competitive? We will win "league" and be happily on our way...
Welcome back ncaa football or I mean wsufan I ask you again where do you coach? Please put in your resume cause you have it all figured out.

You have a lot of room to talk Longtimecat. I am surprised that you could stay up long enough to watch the games with you being Virginia and all. Didn't we have a staffer move to the DC area within the last year. Wonder if it is you.
WOW you got me all figured out bud, first I was from Idaho now I'm from Virginia truly your a seeall.I could be from anywhere and still be more of a Weber fan than you or WSU phony fan or baller.I'm still trying to figure out what drives the hate for Rahe in you guys personally I'm leaning on jealousy.
 
webergrad02 said:
...

This Weber State team has some fatal flaws that make it very difficult to win without shooting over %50 from the three. You combine that with the prevent offense we play if we have a close lead and we are doomed in these games.I am glad you brought up Braxton and Dallas. How can Dallas be going through growing pains when is such a liability that he can't even see the floor? Braxton can't do it all himself especially when he picks up quick fouls. That leaves the post to Hill and Baker. Randy kept saying is #1 goal was to bring in a big that could contibute and then he brings in Darling. The staff has known that Dallas is not going to cut it but yet we hoped it would work.

My biggest argument with your logic is that our two other fatal flaws rest on the backs of our senior players. Our seniors combined for 20 turnovers this weekend. Then please explain to me how we can be this bad at foul shooting? It is like we almost shoot as good from 3 as we do from the foul line. I am sorry but there is something out of wack with this team.

...

Lets hope that as soon as the plane touched down 15 young men were on their way to shoot some free throws. Probably not!

The thing is, how many times do poor FT shooters or shooting teams all of a sudden turn it around? Not too often, especially during the course of a season. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for FT practice and teaching kids better form and mechanics but better results might come from more focus on improving rebounding and reducing turnovers, two things that take less skill and more focus and desire.

For fun-- comparing Rahe's teams historically and how they rank within the Big Sky:
http://www.wxvue.com/Temp/WSU/WSUBB-Stats.jpg

So far this season, FT% & TOs are pretty close to last year's stats but rebounding is dismal. The FT% is poor but it was last year too and the team still had a nice season. Yes, Joel is in the NBA now but if the trend holds it will be more than just losing one rebounding machine. Rahe and Co. had better recognize this and get the team fighting for some boards. Improving FT% and reducing TOs would be a bonus.
 
IMHO, rebounders are born, not made. I think a player can improve through hard work, but if it isn't in them to start with, you can not expect anything more than a modest improvement. Yes, work on the fundamentals and try to maximize what we have. However, this issue really needs to be addressed in recruiting, and I think it has been.

Turnovers and execution are areas that can be improved the most. :coffee:
 
I would agree a natural knack for rebounding is a trait you're born with, however, instilling a desire to rebound can very much be taught and demanded by a coach. If Rahe and Co. do not expect more out of this team regarding rebounding then I would tend to agree even more with those questioning his worth.
 
SWWeatherCat said:
I would agree a natural knack for rebounding is a trait you're born with, however, instilling a desire to rebound can very much be taught and demanded by a coach. If Rahe and Co. do not expect more out of this team regarding rebounding then I would tend to agree even more with those questioning his worth.
I am certain that our coaching staff is aware of just how important it is to rebound the ball. I am also certain that our players get that message often. Everyone knew that Joel's graduation would leave a hole in that part of our game. It is hoped that the team as a whole will work harder to pick up the slack. Everyone has been asked to do a little more in the effort. Our guards have been helping on the defensive end. However, the offensive end is up to the 4 and 5 position. Between Hill and Baker, we have been getting good numbers. Braxton does OK when he is not in foul trouble, but he can be more consistent. Some of our guards have done a better job of rebounding than others. It may well be the reason that one of our starters from last year is now the 5th or 6th guy in the guard rotation. :coffee:
 
WSUfan said:
webergrad02 said:
hawkssb04 said:
OK. Let's all just calm the hell down. First, if you think we're going to find a better coach than Randy at less than $300k per year, your dreaming. Second, the terrible home schedule has less to do with Randy than it does with Jerry Bovee and unfortunate circumstances (successful mid-major program that doesn't have enough money to afford home-game payouts).

Lastly, I think expectations may need to be tempered a bit this season. Yes, we should always expect a Big Sky championship. That's a standard that has been set at Weber State for decades. However, we just graduated the best post presence the Big Sky has seen in 25+ years. That's not easily replaceable. Braxton and Dallas are going to go through some growing pains. We won't have the dominating presence on the boards that we are used to, which is why we've seen the live-by-the-3, die-by-the-3 outcomes early this season. Our preseason schedule is tough. Denver and UVU won't be easy, BYU and Utah State are obviously difficult. However, time and time again, Randy's squads are battle tested because of these difficult preseason schedules, it prepares them for the Big Sky, and it almost always pays off (even if the home schedule is crap).

It must have been a dream when I watched Mark Pope's (salary 230,000) hold on to their second half lead to beat the Cougars at the Marriott center. When BYU put the pressure on late they were calm didn't turn it over, threw some nice passes over the top of the press and most important they made their foul shots. They were playing to win instead of trying not to lose. Pope is doing it with low level D1 talent, And yes he makes under 300K.

This Weber State team has some fatal flaws that make it very difficult to win without shooting over %50 from the three. You combine that with the prevent offense we play if we have a close lead and we are doomed in these games.I am glad you brought up Braxton and Dallas. How can Dallas be going through growing pains when is such a liability that he can't even see the floor? Braxton can't do it all himself especially when he picks up quick fouls. That leaves the post to Hill and Baker. Randy kept saying is #1 goal was to bring in a big that could contibute and then he brings in Darling. The staff has known that Dallas is not going to cut it but yet we hoped it would work.

My biggest argument with your logic is that our two other fatal flaws rest on the backs of our senior players. Our seniors combined for 20 turnovers this weekend. Then please explain to me how we can be this bad at foul shooting? It is like we almost shoot as good from 3 as we do from the foul line. I am sorry but there is something out of wack with this team.

At around 450,000 per year, Randy makes 14K per game played. If we had a huge budget I could understand paying that price, but consider that a big chunk of that money comes from private sources. We are sacrificing other parts of our athletic budget to pay him. He keeps using the same excuses game after game and is not saying that there are some major issues with this team. he makes about 1K for the 14+ excuses he makes after the game. Where is the accountability? This is a senior laden team without a real leader.

I think we are way too one dimensional to win the Big Sky this year. Teams can bait Zach in to a couple of cheap fouls early and then we are doomed. You look at how many minutes this team has logged together, and I think it is acceptable to have high expectations. My expectations are definatly lower now. Lets hope that as soon as the plane touched down 15 young men were on their way to shoot some free throws. Probably not!

Right on webergrad, I think many of us on here are starting to see a real trend in Rahe. Rahe is begining to describe/coach the definition of insanity. For those who watch th team practice, what do they practice? I'm afraid 90% of practice is used to learn a playbook. How much longer are donors and boosters going to put up with Rahe and his ineffective coaching? I'm seriously thinking that extension Bovee gave was a mistake. He should be evaluated at the end of each season, and given a year-to-year contract. Longtimecat, Rahe has said many times he makes his own schedule. I think Bovee should take more of a role in scheduling though. I am convinced that if Rahe let the team play without these crazy sets and play cards, the team would win more games. This team could win more with the "pick up ball" mentality. And no, I'm not ncaafootball. I'm just a fan who is tired of the same results for the past 11 years, tired of 6-37 true road OOC games, tired of losing to USU, BYU and UVU, tired of a terrible home schedule that looks like a D2 schedule, tired of the same excuses from Rahe year in and year out, tired of not making free throws, tired of not being capable of beating a press, tired of bad offensive play cards, tired of only caring about "league" games, tired of being ready by January every year, tired of one and done in the dance, tired of Reno, tired of paying Rahe $450k for the same product, tired of other teams doing better than us with much less, tired of the direction Rahe is taking this program, tired of the excuses, tired of a terrible conference we have, just plain tired of Rahe.
Never tired of ranting I see.
 
Did Jordan Dallas get hurt in the Iona game? I just realized he didnt get any minutes against Buffalo.
I support Randy Rahe AND this team. Last I checked they havn't lost yet in Conference and that's what really matters in these Mid-Major leagues. :twocents:
 
ajwildcat said:
Did Jordan Dallas get hurt in the Iona game? I just realized he didnt get any minutes against Buffalo.
I support Randy Rahe AND this team. Last I checked they havn't lost yet in Conference and that's what really matters in these Mid-Major leagues. :twocents:


I haven't heard anything about Jordan being hurt, but It might have been a matchup thing. Buffalo was decently sized inside, maybe Rahe didn't like the matchup and he had others play he believed matched up better IMO.
 
Buffalo, and especially Iona were great teams for the Cats to play. Yes, the losses were frustrating, especially the loss against Buffalo. To lose when we led the entire second half, and then to lose in the final 4 mins; Ugh...the very definition of frustrating. But a great lesson for our kids. Good teams with solid pedigrees are going to really help the Cats in the long run. Regardless of how frustrating this is (twice so far this season), we, as Weber State fans have seen this before with Rahe. He plays not to lose by shortening the game. His system takes the foot off the penalty in the hope to use up time. This is one aspect of Randy I absolutely HATE. Scoring points is what really matters, not wasting time. What usually happens in these situations is that our guys either take a bad three, drive and get called for a foul, or turn the ball over. Efficiency is lost when the rhythm is changed.

We have been extremely spoiled with rebounding the past three seasons. I don't think anyone realizes the loss the Bolomboy creates. Not only with rebounding but with second chance points. The vast majority of Joel's points were second chance put backs. We have some chuckers who take really bad shots and Joel tended to bail them out; a lot. We don't have that right now. Hill is decent at getting offensive put backs and Zach is fine, but when either is out we are very one-dimensional. We desperately need better passing so that we can get the best look possible, because we aren't going to get the offensive board.

Lastly...we all knew we needed another big and we ended up getting Georgie Boy. Terrible decision by Randy. He needed someone who could come in and actually contribute. I know he doesn't like JC guys, but tough, he needed one this year. We all knew he needed one, but he is stubborn and decided instead to go with a total project who won't probably ever end up playing a min for the Cats.
 

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