Beat #1: Antelope Valley

[Webergrad02]

Tal, It is all in good fun. I think mostly because he hasn't logged on all week. Come on the thought of him running around in a pink speedo is hilarious. Olds loves to run, why not have a little fun with him. I don't think anyone said anything that offense, okay maybe the Bernie sanders part.

Secondly, I know that you are as concerned as any of us at how things are going. Losing at SDSU wasn't the issue. It was how we lost. What should be our strengths are our weaknesses. Then when we get excuses and misinformation from Randy, its too much to handle. We are not developing our players! We were the more veteran team on Monday.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Tal, It is all in good fun. I think mostly because he hasn't logged on all week. Come on the thought of him running around in a pink speedo is hilarious. Olds loves to run, why not have a little fun with him. I don't think anyone said anything that offense, okay maybe the Bernie sanders part.

Secondly, I know that you are as concerned as any of us at how things are going. Losing at SDSU wasn't the issue. It was how we lost. What should be our strengths are our weaknesses. Then when we get excuses and misinformation from Randy, its too much to handle. We are not developing our players! We were the more veteran team on Monday.

Funny, yet, disturbing thought. Olds in a pink speedo? Yikes! Lol

You are right about the program though. Monday was a barometer of where the Cats are devolpment wise and it isn't pretty. You nailed it on the head...chemistry is questionable at best and the bigs just haven't turned that corner like they should have.

 

[sacstateman]

I apologize if any one was offended by my post but I was actually wondering where olds was and if anyone knew how to get hold of him they should check on him...it is NOT like him to not post even if the prevailing tide is against him....

 

[sacstateman]

I don't think you can find a week even in the off season where he hasn't posted something, let alone during the first few weeks of the season...

 

[SWWeatherCat]

I apologize if any one was offended by my post but I was actually wondering where olds was and if anyone knew how to get hold of him they should check on him...it is NOT like him to not post even if the prevailing tide is against him....

I would guess Olds has much thicker skin than that and can't imaging what would be offensive about your inquiry. It's true, he's a machine when it comes to posting. It didn't feel to me like anyone was "attacking" Olds, just playing with his eternal optimistic views-- certainly not a bad quality. I could, however, see him taking some offense at the Rahe angst and not wanting to waste his breath on any of it.

 

[Back2WSU]

So Cody John is in the game. Thought he was redshirting...is there an injury that caused this to happen?

 

[Back2WSU]

So it's not just John who's not redshirting, but Juwan Williams as well.

https://twitter.com/BrandonGarside/status/667522633819250688" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[oldrunner]

Hey! I have you know that I look fabulous in my pink speedo.

It was nice to see all of the freshmen get significant minutes tonight. Jefferson might be gunning for more minutes.

The only thing I am concerned with from this outing was the sloppy turnovers. Almost none of them were forced turnovers. Against a good team that could really hurt. The defense in the last 10 minutes of the first half and the fist 10 of the second, was good. We are still making stupid mistakes. I hope they clean some of that up in Florida. If not, it could be a long trip with little gain.

I liked the zones and the press. We may need all of that later in the season.

 

[weberwildcat]

I'm oldrunner....I just don't use my oldrunner account always.

 

[wsucatfan]

I'm oldrunner....I just don't use my oldrunner account always.

I'm Batman, sorry had to do it.

 

[Webergrad02]

The box score lists 5,800 attendance. I think we would be lucky if we had 2,000 there.

 

[n.ogdencat]

The box score lists 5,800 attendance. I think we would be lucky if we had 2,000 there.

The university uses, for attendance figures, the total # of season tickets sold as the measure.

 

[oldrunner]

First off, the attendance would have been good for a women's game. For a men's game, it was one of the worst attended games I've been to.

Second, Antelope's 'Valley Girls' were not a good test of our abilities.

With that said, two of our three big men, in the main rotation, rebounded well, and our guards, specially Gittens, did as well. What we are not doing is forcing enough turnovers and we are committing way too many unforced turnovers. Defensively, we were good for about half of that game. That team had no business scoring over 35 points in that game. We still have guys taking time off on that side of the floor. I'm sure that has more to do with the red shirts being pulled than anything else. Ron A had a team like this when he first took over. The only way he could get through to them was to sit them when their guy scored. Their guy scores and they get to sit on the pine and think about it for a while. It was tough love, but it got them to be a little more tuned in on that side of the floor.

 

[UtahPirate]

Just a thought on turnovers Olds:

Many of the unforced turnovers were from Williams and John who were seeing their first minutes of the season. I think you need to consider that. John looked more and more comfortable as the game went on. He's really quick. Williams, I remain really uncertain of his role and where he'll get minutes. Baker was really off and had a poor first half, especially with some forced passes.

Rahe is typically an 8-man rotation guy. What now? At least 9 this year during conference? He was obviously sending a message to Richardson -- from starter to not seeing the court until there was 8 minutes in a huge blowout. I really like Richardson and think he'll get his stroke down, he can be such an offensive threat. Where do minutes go now with a much deeper bench?

Was that really a zone we played the last 8 minutes? Geez, what's the world coming to? I think a defense like that helps a player like Richardson who is so long, but too much of a stick to push through screens when going man-to-man. I'd love to see just a couple more tricks in the defensive playbook.

Monday will be big to see if we are progressing. I remain unbelievably upset we lost to USU...

 

[SWWeatherCat]

The box score lists 5,800 attendance. I think we would be lucky if we had 2,000 there.

The university uses, for attendance figures, the total # of season tickets sold as the measure.

Right, which supports my arguments, past, when saying there weren't nearly as many in attendance as reported. Another inflation method I'm sure they use is when doing multi-ticket promotions or "family passes," counting the full 5-6 tix sold as a ticket group, all as attendees when possibly 2-3 of the total tix are all that are actually used. For the most part they scan everyone into the arena, I don't know why those numbers can't be tallied for a truer representation of actual attendance. They could still use their tickets "sold" number too for whatever purpose it serves.

As for the game, I really don't know what purpose is served playing teams of this caliber. I've heard the default answers but seriously, if Rahe doesn't care about pre-season W/L results then why not bring in better competition to tweak and look at different things. Didn't Weber play another first year school last year in Bristol?

Anyway, as already mentioned, the unforced turnovers were a glaring problem against very weak competition. It was disappointing to see a lack of defensive intensity and focus the first and last 10 minutes of the game. I guess a positive takeaway is they shot well as a team and especially well from the 3PT line. I'm not sure that says much against the level of competition-- the looks wont be as good against stronger defenders. I do like Cannon/Senglin on the floor together but think the offense needs to fully support Senglin at the 2, as in better movement aimed at giving Senglin good looks. Joel and Senglin haven't had a lot of help with scoring and I'm not sure if that's bound to change. I still don't like Joel on the 3PT line if Zach or Hill are not in position to fight for OREBs. If Rahe issues licenses to shoot the 3, maybe he could do the same with dunks? There have been too many missed in the early going-- just get the points. I'd rather see Gittens as a starter if he and Baker are going to produce similar results. I see more potential in Gittens but historically he hasn't had the consistency. Initially, I liked the thought of Gittens leading the bench with a scoring (and defensive) punch, but I'm wondering now if that might not be a better role and match for Baker.

 

[Webergrad02]

Just a thought on turnovers Olds:

Many of the unforced turnovers were from Williams and John who were seeing their first minutes of the season. I think you need to consider that. John looked more and more comfortable as the game went on. He's really quick. Williams, I remain really uncertain of his role and where he'll get minutes. Baker was really off and had a poor first half, especially with some forced passes.

Rahe is typically an 8-man rotation guy. What now? At least 9 this year during conference? He was obviously sending a message to Richardson -- from starter to not seeing the court until there was 8 minutes in a huge blowout. I really like Richardson and think he'll get his stroke down, he can be such an offensive threat. Where do minutes go now with a much deeper bench?

Was that really a zone we played the last 8 minutes? Geez, what's the world coming to? I think a defense like that helps a player like Richardson who is so long, but too much of a stick to push through screens when going man-to-man. I'd love to see just a couple more tricks in the defensive playbook.

Monday will be big to see if we are progressing. I remain unbelievably upset we lost to USU...

Didn't Joel get benched a few years ago vs. St Kathy's school of cosmetology to "send a message". These NAIA games are difficult to gauge where we are because of the skill difference. I hope the lack of butts in seats last night "sends a message" to coach about the schedule. We supposedly had to have 15 homes for sponsors. Obviously the fans weren't fooled.

 

[n.ogdencat]

The box score lists 5,800 attendance. I think we would be lucky if we had 2,000 there.

The university uses, for attendance figures, the total # of season tickets sold as the measure.

Right, which supports my arguments, past, when saying there weren't nearly as many in attendance as reported. Another inflation method I'm sure they use is when doing multi-ticket promotions or "family passes," counting the full 5-6 tix sold as a ticket group, all as attendees when possibly 2-3 of the total tix are all that are actually used. For the most part they scan everyone into the arena, I don't know why those numbers can't be tallied for a truer representation of actual attendance. They could still use their tickets "sold" number too for whatever purpose it serves.

As for the game, I really don't know what purpose is served playing teams of this caliber. I've heard the default answers but seriously, if Rahe doesn't care about pre-season W/L results then why not bring in better competition to tweak and look at different things. Didn't Weber play another first year school last year in Bristol?

Anyway, as already mentioned, the unforced turnovers were a glaring problem against very weak competition. It was disappointing to see a lack of defensive intensity and focus the first and last 10 minutes of the game. I guess a positive takeaway is they shot well as a team and especially well from the 3PT line. I'm not sure that says much against the level of competition-- the looks wont be as good against stronger defenders. I do like Cannon/Senglin on the floor together but think the offense needs to fully support Senglin at the 2, as in better movement aimed at giving Senglin good looks. Joel and Senglin haven't had a lot of help with scoring and I'm not sure if that's bound to change. I still don't like Joel on the 3PT line if Zach or Hill are not in position to fight for OREBs. If Rahe issues licenses to shoot the 3, maybe he could do the same with dunks? There have been too many missed in the early going-- just get the points. I'd rather see Gittens as a starter if he and Baker are going to produce similar results. I see more potential in Gittens but historically he hasn't had the consistency. Initially, I liked the thought of Gittens leading the bench with a scoring (and defensive) punch, but I'm wondering now if that might not be a better role and match for Baker.

SW every university does it. It is all about "available" seats. Do you really think USU was averaging 9K two years ago or Utah had 14K in basketball? You'd look at their stadium and see they couldn't have had more than 3 or 4K and suddenly in the box there was 14K. As for the family ticket pass...of course you'd count 5 tickets sold. When the package was sold, there were 5 less seats available in the stadium. I don't like it, but that is how it works. I just find it funny when Weber gets a chance to say 9 or 10K they go with the lower number of 8500. Last Friday the scanners weren't working for students and they just came up with some random number. We all know there were at least 9500 there, but no. Athletics went with the lower number when they could have pulled a Utah and gone big. But you make a great argument!

So, I was looking at ticket prices and I couldn't believe the cheapest seat last night was for $9. My wife and I couldn't believe our eyes. I was aghast!! For that game...athletics should have sold tickets for a buck. Normally, for DI games, I would sell all upper-bowl tickets for $5 and occasionally for $2.50. But...we all know how inefficient athletic marketing is.

I was a bit upset about our defense. I feel we were really lax at times; especially in the middle. I was upset that they scored 47. However, they do have 4 DI transfers on their squad and 5 other JC guys. So, they ended up being better than expected. They had some nice height, so they were able to push our bigs a bit. However, after last night, I decided that Rahe needs to recruit a JC big for next season. Go after the absolute best player we can get (Omar Sherman is available :thumb: ). Bolomboy did his thing and is really starting to play some good basketball. His passing is iffy, but improved. Braxton is experiencing growing pains, but is coming along he is adjusting. Hill...well, he does his thing. I really enjoyed his put backs and he was crashing the boards with a little more vigor, but his defense. He is the strongest guy on the team and is pushed around so easily. I will say that he gets whistled for crap fairly often.

I liked the starting lineup. Baker didn't play his best game last night. He missed three threes, but all of them were right there. Two of the three rimmed out. He is only going to get better with more time. Cannon...yikes...he is going to be seriously good. I am soooo glad he is a Wildcat. Same thing for Cody John. Those two have bright futures ahead of them. I liked the hustle and defense of Williams and was happy with Jefferson's mins. Richardson made the most of his time. He put on good weight during the off-season, now he needs to learn how to move being bigger.

As for the rotation...I wouldn't doubt seeing a 10 or 11 man rotation. Senglin and Gittens are going to get their mins. Senglin can play three positions and can do things that are absolutely impressive. He got whistled for a bogus charging foul last night. Does the Big Sky even address what a charging foul is?

 

[Skippy]

"Right, which supports my arguments, past, when saying there weren't nearly as many in attendance as reported. Another inflation method I'm sure they use is when doing multi-ticket promotions or "family passes," counting the full 5-6 tix sold as a ticket group, all as attendees when possibly 2-3 of the total tix are all that are actually used. For the most part they scan everyone into the arena, I don't know why those numbers can't be tallied for a truer representation of actual attendance. They could still use their tickets "sold" number too for whatever purpose it serves."

Everybody uses the "tickets sold/handed out" method for reporting attendance. You always want your average attendance to look as good as possible for recruiting purposes. Unless you're selling the place out every night like UK or Indiana, everybody knows the reported attendance is an inflated figure.

 

[SWWeatherCat]

Tal/Bengal, I wasn't saying Weber was the only one doing it, I was just remembering some debate in years past in both BB and FB about how full the venue actually was versus reported attendance.

You always want your average attendance to look as good as possible for recruiting purposes.

No doubt since often there's little truth in reality. Those recruits sure must get a rush playing in 6K environments like last night. I get it, everybody does it, but I'd just as soon have these venues be held accountable for reporting the truth instead of lying to try and get an edge in recruiting-- ethics and college athletics :lol: .

Furthermore, it wouldn't surprise me if those inflating the numbers believe them and is that "recruiting edge" really worth it? If everybody does it then I'm not sure how it becomes an advantage, though. In my simple business mind, I would want to know how many people are actually attending so I can try to increase that number or gauge the effect of promotions, etc. I imagine both numbers are calculated/used, just one reported publicly. Simply, I think it's dumb, obvious, and not the ethical example that should be employed.

The only reason I even commented about attendance is because I received a text from a friend who assumed I'd be at the game like I always have been in past years. He ask me if I was one of the 100 people at the DEC that he could see on TV. I'm sure it satisfied his curiosity reading the box score and the reported 6K attendance. It probably also made him wish he'd bought a ticket to be a part of that environment.

 

[oldrunner]

I was there. I almost went bowling instead, but changed my mind at the last moment. Just my WAG, I would say there were between 2,000 and 3,000. It seemed like there were more in the second half. Anyway, it was the worst attended men's game at the Dee in a long, long time. Randy did seem to have a concerned look on his face. My feelings are that if we had beat USU, we would have had a larger crowd at this DOG game.

I really don't know how a game like that can help us get tougher, but it may be a feel good sort of game. It was certainly good to see some kids play, significant minutes, that we may not see much of after we start league games.