Big Sky Expansion Round II: UND and SUU, USD on Verge

[SDHornet]

I know, but he is from UND and he definitely portrays a “buddy-buddy” type of attitude when I listened to the interviews on the Fargo radio station. :roll:

Sac State won’t go to the WAC if Utah State and LA Tech leaves. That would mean only Hawaii, SJSU, NM State, and Idaho is left. If that happens, Hawaii would no doubt go independent leaving the remaining 3 schools to drop down or more likely just drop football.

Side note, this would leave Hornet baseball with no home, further adding to the reasons to push for non-football sports for Big West membership.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

I know, but he is from UND and he definitely portrays a “buddy-buddy” type of attitude when I listened to the interviews on the Fargo radio station. :roll:

No big deal IMO. At least its a school he is familiar with. Remember, the presidents made this decision, though Im sure Dr. Wanless probably consulted Dr. Gonzalez about UND. Sac State didn't issue the invite to UND, the Big Sky did collectively as a whole per conference bylaws.

I think with a larger conference, there might be a push to get better TV coverage for football and men's hoops, which has been clearly lacking. Its hard to ignore a 14 team football and 12 team basketball conference, no matter who are.

 

[SDHornet]

Good points, it would be nice if that happens. I also hope that a centralized location for the conference hoops tournament will come of this. I say have the thing in SLC every year, hell WSU will most likely host anyways, plus with a predetermined location, one of the ESPN channels can offer TV coverage.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Good points, it would be nice if that happens. I also hope that a centralized location for the conference hoops tournament will come of this. I say have the thing in SLC every year, hell WSU will most likely host anyways, plus with a predetermined location, one of the ESPN channels can offer TV coverage.

Im all for that and invite all the teams, bands and cheerleaders and make it a true celebration of the season.

 

[SDHornet]

WOW. USD doesn’t go to the BSC. The BSC is screwed with no travel partner for UND. Yet another reason to pull out of the BSC and pursue Big West membership.

Big Sky commissioner Doug Fulerton confirmed late Wednesday night that South Dakota instead accepted an 11th-hour invitation to join the Missouri Valley Conference.
"That's my understanding," Fullerton said. "I know there's another discussion that will take place (Thursday) morning, but my understanding is that's true. We always knew that would be a possibility. Institutions have a lot of different constituencies that they have to clear these things with so obviously it didn't work out."
The addition of USD, located in Vermillion, was to give the Big Sky, which Montana has been a member of since its inception in 1963, 14 football programs and 12 for basketball.
The Coyotes' change of direction leaves North Dakota as the eastern-most school in the Big Sky, and without a natural travel partner for basketball.
Officials at UND had expressed gratitude to the Big Sky for the invitation, and Fullerton said Monday that the Big Sky had stepped in while the Missouri Valley Conference hadn't.
Now the Missouri Valley has three of the four Dakota schools: North Dakota State and South Dakota State joined the football league in 2007.
The move gives the MVC an even 10 teams for football and keeps the Summit League at 10 for basketball; the Coyotes will replace Southern Utah, which will become a core member of the Big Sky.
That helps the MVC in terms of travel partners for its basketball schedule, and hurts the Big Sky, which is now at 13 members for football and 11 for hoops.
Fullerton said the odd number of teams means that the Big Sky is unlikely to split into divisions.

http://missoulian.com/sports/colleg...cle_8da06c90-e7cf-11df-988e-001cc4c03286.html

The BSC took a risk and just got burned.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Looks like UND got Utah State'd.

I think if the MVC wanted UND they would have done the same 11th hour offer.

 

[SJHornet]

So if USD truly doesn't come to the BSC, does that give Sac State a better chance of being allowed to go BWC? 13 football 10 rest of sports

 

[DrMike]

that is very surprising, in some ways. i thought the four Dakota's would try to find a way to stick together in the MVC. i didn't see 3 of them. UND is left holding the bag....unless get another 11th hour deal is struck!

i don't see why the MVC would offer USD and not UND, unless South Dakota State pushed for the Yotes, and North Dakota State didn't push for the Sioux.

 

[SJHornet]

Fullerton made an official statement: http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2010/11/4/GEN_1104100828.aspx

I think Fullerton may have screwed this one up. should have waited until USD made a decision to invite both. UND is now an island and a travel nightmare. It will be interesting to see what everyone's next move is. Will the Sky try for 14/12? Does the Sky go after a DII school like UNO to facilitate UND, or does oes UND try to bolt to the Summit/MVFC? Do we stay at 13/11? Maybe Montana bolts and the conference sits at even numbers again. Maybe we get to go Big West. I have a feeling we will be dealing with conference expansion the rest of the season.

 

[Green Laser]

The North Dakota addition is done, we have to deal with it even though it made far more sense with South Dakota involved. In football it won't be that bad as long as the California schools play each other in conference every year and the other schools can be rotated. I hope that they stay at 8 conference games, that will give us enough flexibility to schedule our FBS game, get a D2 for a extra home game etc.
The real problem is the extra travel for the other sports. If nothing else is afoot I still would like us to get into the Big West for the other sports. North Dakota (which is no without a baseball league) could take our place in the WAC in baseball.

 

[Siouxfan]

that is very surprising, in some ways. i thought the four Dakota's would try to find a way to stick together in the MVC. i didn't see 3 of them. UND is left holding the bag....unless get another 11th hour deal is struck!

i don't see why the MVC would offer USD and not UND, unless South Dakota State pushed for the Yotes, and North Dakota State didn't push for the Sioux.

As a UND fan, I'm pleased we're in the Big Sky, but not pleased with the way this situation was handled (including the USD President, the MVFC, as well as Fullerton and our President.)

The MVFC didn't want as many Summit schools as MIssouri Valley basketball schools in its conference - otherwise the Summit could have taken over the MVFC administratively (like the Colonial did to the A10). Four Summit schools was the max they would take (SDSU, USD, NDSU, and WIU.) If we would have joined the Summit, our football program would have been totally screwed over. With UND almost 400 miles from USD, USD is mostly a bus ride from most MVFC schools, while we are a plane ride.

NDSU has never gone to bat for us - their fan base absolutely detests us and their administration doesn't want to lose the DI moveup timing advantage and seems fearful of the power of our facilities and broadcast capability (we have blanket coverage in ND, SD, and NW Minn on cable and national coverage on Fox College Sports mainly due to our high level hockey program). NDSU's fan board is bragging that they kept us out of the MVFC, which probably has some level of truth to it, but the distance to the average MVFC made a bigger difference. We are also looked at as the rich kids on the dakota block (higher endowment, higher athletic funding, and much better facilities and more overall attendance than any of the other schools), so none of those schools want to do us a favor. USD has only about half our budget, so how they ever could have afforded the Big Sky travel is beyond me. Having Montana schools as competitors (if they stay) may actually do us a huge favor - as the attention we will get in the western part of the state will increase substantially. If both Montana school leave, we are screwed.

 

[Siouxfan]

The North Dakota addition is done, we have to deal with it even though it made far more sense with South Dakota involved. In football it won't be that bad as long as the California schools play each other in conference every year and the other schools can be rotated. I hope that they stay at 8 conference games, that will give us enough flexibility to schedule our FBS game, get a D2 for a extra home game etc.
The real problem is the extra travel for the other sports. If nothing else is afoot I still would like us to get into the Big West for the other sports. North Dakota (which is no without a baseball league) could take our place in the WAC in baseball.

In many respects, a NC-UND travel partnership is better than UND-USD, as the NC-UND would be almost all plane. I can't imagine the Sac State women's basketball team on 400 mile Vermillion to Grand Forks bus ride in January with the winds howling, snow blowing, and it being -20 F or colder. Most winters there isn't many storms, but one never knows. Montana girls could probably deal with it, no so sure about California girls (or boys) :shock:

 

[superhornet]

The North Dakota addition is done, we have to deal with it even though it made far more sense with South Dakota involved. In football it won't be that bad as long as the California schools play each other in conference every year and the other schools can be rotated. I hope that they stay at 8 conference games, that will give us enough flexibility to schedule our FBS game, get a D2 for a extra home game etc.
The real problem is the extra travel for the other sports. If nothing else is afoot I still would like us to get into the Big West for the other sports. North Dakota (which is no without a baseball league) could take our place in the WAC in baseball.

In many respects, a NC-UND travel partnership is better than UND-USD, as the NC-UND would be almost all plane. I can't imagine the Sac State women's basketball team on 400 mile Vermillion to Grand Forks bus ride in January with the winds howling, snow blowing, and it being -20 F or colder. Most winters there isn't many storms, but one never knows. Montana girls could probably deal with it, no so sure about California girls (or boys) :shock:

I guess you haven't been to the Sierra Nevadas. Did you forget about the Winter Olympics Cali hosted?

 

[Siouxfan]

I guess you haven't been to the Sierra Nevadas. Did you forget about the Winter Olympics Cali hosted?

Been over mountain passes through many western states - not the Sierras though.

But a snowstorm in Colorado or Wyoming mountains - where the snow usually comes down in huge flakes - is not at all like a blizzard in ND - where the snow is like needles hitting you at 50 mph. Never mind the cold. I said Montana because some of them are used to winter on the plains - Montana is more a plains state than mountain state - and would know how to dress for that kind of weather.

 

[Green Laser]

The North Dakota addition is done, we have to deal with it even though it made far more sense with South Dakota involved. In football it won't be that bad as long as the California schools play each other in conference every year and the other schools can be rotated. I hope that they stay at 8 conference games, that will give us enough flexibility to schedule our FBS game, get a D2 for a extra home game etc.
The real problem is the extra travel for the other sports. If nothing else is afoot I still would like us to get into the Big West for the other sports. North Dakota (which is no without a baseball league) could take our place in the WAC in baseball.

In many respects, a NC-UND travel partnership is better than UND-USD, as the NC-UND would be almost all plane. I can't imagine the Sac State women's basketball team on 400 mile Vermillion to Grand Forks bus ride in January with the winds howling, snow blowing, and it being -20 F or colder. Most winters there isn't many storms, but one never knows. Montana girls could probably deal with it, no so sure about California girls (or
boys) :shock:

For the Northern Colorado/ North Dakota trips is there regular airline service between Denver and Grand Forks?

 

[Green Laser]

I guess you haven't been to the Sierra Nevadas. Did you forget about the Winter Olympics Cali hosted?

Been over mountain passes through many western states - not the Sierras though.

But a snowstorm in Colorado or Wyoming mountains - where the snow usually comes down in huge flakes - is not at all like a blizzard in ND - where the snow is like needles hitting you at 50 mph. Never mind the cold. I said Montana because some of them are used to winter on the plains - Montana is more a plains state than mountain state - and would know how to dress for that kind of weather.

Sounds delightful! :lol:

 

[SDHornet]

Welcome to the BSC SF. Granted I hate the travel it will add to our teams as well as the costs to the travel budget, so please bear with all my complaining, however the TV capabilities UND brings could be an diamond in the rough. For UND’s sake, I hope they can get competitive and somehow find a way to schedule NDSU regularly so you guys can continue to slap them around on the gridiron.

And it was 101 here in SD, God knows I wouldn’t be able to cope with a Dakota winter. :lol:

 

[SJHornet]

After reading my previous post, it seems I lead on I was totally disappointed with the addition of North Dakota. Actually, (especially after some reflection), I am pretty happy with the addition. UND has a very good reputation academically and I think has the potential athletically to be another Montana. I am worried about the travel, but a bigger Sky means more attention and better competition means more respect nationally. I would really like for Sac to be admitted to the Big West, but the expanded Sky will do just fine for now. I didn’t know NDSU had such a sour relationship with you guys. If we were trying to get into a conference and UCD had left us out in the cold as you guys had, I wouldn’t want anything to do with them or their conference either. Screw the other XD‘s, let’s look forward to many meetings on the field in the Sky!

Welcome to the Sky UND and SUU!

 

[DrMike]

another positive about UND, is that they travel well. they played at Davis the past two years, and represented themselves very well. there are ALOT of Dakota transplants in the area, so they will bring more to football games than some of the BigSky teams.

since my focus is on football, UND is a good addition. USD would have been good also. And, it seems it would have been good for both of them to stay connected.

so much for the Great Big West(ern) Sky Football Conference!

 

[Siouxfan]

another positive about UND, is that they travel well. they played at Davis the past two years, and represented themselves very well. there are ALOT of Dakota transplants in the area, so they will bring more to football games than some of the BigSky teams.

since my focus is on football, UND is a good addition. USD would have been good also. And, it seems it would have been good for both of them to stay connected.

so much for the Great Big West(ern) Sky Football Conference!

Shortly, UND is supposedly announcing a new 100 yd indoor practice facility with team offices and workout rooms for football, track, soccer, softball. Once we get that, there won't be many FCS schools that can match our facilities.

UND does travel well, but it also has a lot of alumni in the West. The Big Sky press release said there were 1600 alumni in the Sacramento area, over 3000 in Denver, 2000 in Seattle (who would probably travel to Portland St). Other than Minneapolis, which has around 20,000 or so, Phoenix has easily the next largest number - and they would travel to Flagstaff.

USD would have struggled with travel budgets in the Big Sky. Here's the latest budgets for each Dakota school:

UND $16.7 M
NDSU $14.2
SDSU $11.9
USD $ 7.2

USD is really handicapped by being in a town with nothing else there. Literally, USD is Vermillion. Also, South Dakota has historically not given higher education much funding, so South Dakota schools are not nearly as advanced with research programs or the depth of the educational offerings. Both SD schools are Tier 2, while ND schools are Tier 1.