Budget Woes at Montana!

[StungAlum]

Montana AD gives three options for football:

1. Reduce the number of out-of-state scholarships: The AD states that this change means "We're not going to win." This would start 2012

2. Move to Division II

3. Move to the WAC: Per the AD: This move would increase revenue, but it is not likely to happen because of the moritorium and the initial costs.

http://www.montanakaimin.com/index.php/articles/article/athletic_department_considering_trimming_scholarships/843

 

[SDHornet]

Montana is staying right where they are. Moving to FBS will definitely not save them money, and there is more than initial costs. The costs are recurring every year such as additional scholarships for football and specifically for the 2 additional sports UM will need to go FBS, coaching salaries for additional sports, facility maintenance for additional sports, increased coaching salaries for football, travel funds for additional sports, WAC/NCAA move-up fees...the list goes on and on. Basically, a UM to FBS move doesn't reduce their budget.

A Sac State move to FBS would be no different other than 1 additional women's sport being added to meet Title IX. Sac State move would require a larger initial facility cost to make the move (new arena, upgraded football facilities, facilities for the new sport plus any fees the NCAA and WAC has for move-ups).

I think the UM AD is just trying to rally the troops to support a move to FBS.

 

[superhornet]

I, too, see the Griz staying put. As will Sacred City. But if the big thing for Sac is adding a female sport, what would be the logical sport? I don't see it being football because that would put us in violation of Title IX in reverse. (You might see a zillion other reasons, but that's the big one I see.) Field hockey? We'd have a natural rival in UOP. Lacrosse? That would match us with the Manure Pile. But both would incur lots of travel costs. Maybe water polo? That's an MPSF sport, so there would be some good rival schools close.

 

[SDHornet]

I, too, see the Griz staying put. As will Sacred City. But if the big thing for Sac is adding a female sport, what would be the logical sport? I don't see it being football because that would put us in violation of Title IX in reverse. (You might see a zillion other reasons, but that's the big one I see.) Field hockey? We'd have a natural rival in UOP. Lacrosse? That would match us with the Manure Pile. But both would incur lots of travel costs. Maybe water polo? That's an MPSF sport, so there would be some good rival schools close.

Women's swimming and diving. We have an on campus pools at Yosemite Hall, whether or not it is sufficient is beyond me...or we say good-bye to men's soccer...

 

[StungAlum]

I, too, see the Griz staying put. As will Sacred City. But if the big thing for Sac is adding a female sport, what would be the logical sport? I don't see it being football because that would put us in violation of Title IX in reverse. (You might see a zillion other reasons, but that's the big one I see.) Field hockey? We'd have a natural rival in UOP. Lacrosse? That would match us with the Manure Pile. But both would incur lots of travel costs. Maybe water polo? That's an MPSF sport, so there would be some good rival schools close.

Women's swimming and diving. We have an on campus pools at Yosemite Hall, whether or not it is sufficient is beyond me...or we say good-bye to men's soccer...

I beleive the pool is questionable, comparing Sac States pool to other institutions' pools would be like comparing the Hornets nest to other institutions' arenas.

But I agree with both of you, Montana stays where they are and might reduce scholarships for out-of-state students, it would be minimal IMO.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

They do spend alot of dough on out-of-state kids. They won't touch football though.

If they went FBS and started having 3-8 consecutive seasons or worse, attendance will drop. As the AD said, they would lose $1M a year with a modest dip, but what about a $2M drop? Without student monies they have become exposed to always filling up the home stadium as the funding cureall. Limited corporate support and killer travel costs all but seal up the no deal.

 

[Hornut]

I, too, see the Griz staying put. As will Sacred City. But if the big thing for Sac is adding a female sport, what would be the logical sport? I don't see it being football because that would put us in violation of Title IX in reverse. (You might see a zillion other reasons, but that's the big one I see.) Field hockey? We'd have a natural rival in UOP. Lacrosse? That would match us with the Manure Pile. But both would incur lots of travel costs. Maybe water polo? That's an MPSF sport, so there would be some good rival schools close.

Women's swimming and diving. We have an on campus pools at Yosemite Hall, whether or not it is sufficient is beyond me...or we say good-bye to men's soccer...

I beleive the pool is questionable, comparing Sac States pool to other institutions' pools would be like comparing the Hornets nest to other institutions' arenas.

But I agree with both of you, Montana stays where they are and might reduce scholarships for out-of-state students, it would be minimal IMO.

The Griz are not going anywhere. The fiscal crisis has finally hit North American-Canadian football and they are worrying. The won't go down to Div II and they don't have the financial backing to go to BCS football. Pretty much, they won't be able to offer Pacific Coast players scholarships. Grizzle season is in. Go hunting!

GO HORNETS!

 

[SDHornet]

I beleive the pool is questionable, comparing Sac States pool to other institutions' pools would be like comparing the Hornets nest to other institutions' arenas.

I agree, but how much would it cost to dig a hole and line it with concrete? There would be more money spent on labor than materials. I know Sac State had a men's water polo club team when I was a student. Not sure how big of a pool is needed for water polo but they did use the pool at Yosemite Hall.

Also if the NCAA allows competitive cheer to be counted towards Title IX, Sac State may not even need to add a sport. (Assuming Sac State currently gives out scholarships for the cheer squad, which I imagine they do seeing as they just finished near the top in the nation at the latest nationals competition.)

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

And or band.

 

[StungAlum]

I beleive the pool is questionable, comparing Sac States pool to other institutions' pools would be like comparing the Hornets nest to other institutions' arenas.

I agree, but how much would it cost to dig a hole and line it with concrete? There would be more money spent on labor than materials. I know Sac State had a men's water polo club team when I was a student. Not sure how big of a pool is needed for water polo but they did use the pool at Yosemite Hall.

Also if the NCAA allows competitive cheer to be counted towards Title IX, Sac State may not even need to add a sport. (Assuming Sac State currently gives out scholarships for the cheer squad, which I imagine they do seeing as they just finished near the top in the nation at the latest nationals competition.)

Sac doesnt need to add any sports, they sponsor 20, the minimum for FBS is 16.

I dont think a new pool will ever happen, at least not anywhere in the near future. Can you imagine a new pool being constructed and all of the professors and hippie students crying about it?

 

[Kadeezy]

Stung, you're right... I think he was just saying that if we want to keep all the current men's sports, we would need to offset it with additional women's teams...

I'm with you though, drop golf and maybe soccer if you have to...

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Stung, you're right... I think he was just saying that if we want to keep all the current men's sports, we would need to offset it with additional women's teams...

I'm with you though, drop golf and maybe soccer if you have to...

Drop a championship men's soccer program that got the second round of the NCAA Tournament last year and one that brings back 4/5ths of the team? :roll:

 

[SDHornet]

SHA this was all in reference to IF/WHEN Sac State moves to FBS and the WAC; which will result in 22 additional football scholarships. The options of what is added and what is dropped will all depend on the NCAA and how/if they decide to view scholarships related to Title IX differently.

If view doesn't change:

• • Assuming all the women's sports scholarships are at maximum funding, Sac State will need to ADD a women's sport (my guess is swimming and diving) hence the remark about a pool and diving facilities needing to be built (or an off campus facility would have to be rented). Women's swimming and diving is a WAC sponsored sport and would most likely make up the Title IX required difference.
  • OR the athletic department will need to DROP a men's sport. Men's soccer is not a WAC sponsored sport and would probably make up the difference for the added football scholarships. I would prefer that the budget be increased to sufficiently support all current sports and the added football and new women's scholarships, but this is probably the least likely to occur due to its added expense. As far as I am concerned, all sports with the least revenue generating potential can be put on the chopping block (this narrows it down to pretty much everything except football and basketball). There is a considerable soccer following in the Sacramento area and if soccer had some half decent facilities, it could probably see some decent attendance numbers and generate some revenue. Sadly, this isn't the case so it can go on the cut list. I'd hate to see any sports cut, but all options need to be considered and axing a sport is the most cost effective way to meet Title IX.

If view is changed (specifically competitive cheer counted towards Title IX):

• • It is possible no adds or cuts would be required. I don't know how many women scholarships are given for the cheer squad but if it is 22, it would make up for the difference in added football scholarships.
  • If the cheer scholarships are less than 22 (probable as I would assume male cheerleaders are also on scholarship) the difference will have to come from somewhere. This can be met by axing a smaller men's sport such as golf of cross country (I nominate golf as it's really just walking) or adding a small women's sport (I'm clueless as to what would be a fit here but I wouldn't mind watching a beach volleyball team, just Google image search "women's beach volleyball" and you'll understand why ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Athletic_Conference

 

[superhornet]

I believe that boys soccer is an MPSF sport. Other schools are doing well at that level. I could see Sac moving to the WAC for all sponsored sports and moving the successful soccer team to the MPSF vice dumping it.

I know administrators don't often see it, but the intent of Title IX is to EXPAND opportunity, not to contract it.

That said, I'm NOT in favor of the jump. Guaranteeing us access to a LOW-TIER bowl (after the requisite get-to-know-you period of losing) vice a shot at a title decided on the field is NOT my cup of tea.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Boys soccer?