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Conference Realignment

Kadeezy

Kadeezy

Active member
It looks like the American is going to try to poach up to three schools from the Mountain West.

If that happens, it will likely be the last change Sac State will have to jump to FBS for at least another decade with another moratorium period.

I would love for the American to take Air Force, Boise State, and Colorado State and leave SDSU there. Then adding Sac State, Davis, and Cal Poly would be amazing.
 
When it becomes time to move Sac State has the ability with a massive student body funding the athletic program. Facilities are adequate enough and basketball can try and book Golden One as much as possible and is feasible until an on campus arena is ever built.
 
Kadeezy said:
It looks like the American is going to try to poach up to three schools from the Mountain West.

If that happens, it will likely be the last change Sac State will have to jump to FBS for at least another decade with another moratorium period.

I would love for the American to take Air Force, Boise State, and Colorado State and leave SDSU there. Then adding Sac State, Davis, and Cal Poly would be amazing.
Click to expand...

Been thinking about this also!! But this next round of conference realignment seems to have less* of an emphasis on TV makers compared to the last go-round, which would have been Sac’s biggest selling point. And hate to bring this back up again, but that basketball gym is gonna be a factor again.

If MWC is expanding, it’s probably going to be a combination of NDSU and New Mexico State.

But Cal Poly/UCD/ and Sac moving up together to MWC and play in the same conference as SJSU/Fresno/and San Diego would certainly bring huge crowds to the games!
 
Hornet Gym (actually South Gym if you want to go back to when it was built) should not be some type of
deal breaker. It could be put back to 1,800 capacity plus some.
Was crowds of 2,400 in 1988 with the baseball bleachers drug in at the time .

Get the students in the engineering dept. together and figure out how to make Hornet Gym a facility that can somehow hold 3,000 like St. Mary's College

The WELL. Was going to be turned into a 3,000 seat arena in 2014 when the Hornets were going to be
hosting the Big Sky Tourney before loosing at SUU and NAU to blow that happening .

And there is still Golden One .

Sac State athletics is a program that will thrive on interest from the community , the alumni and the students.
in that order..

3,200 students now living on campus with 6 new resident halls opening up this fall did not seem to make a difference in attendance at the first football game on campus . But we are still in the midst of COVID like every other schools

Everything being said, Sac State in a conference with California schools is superior to being where we are now with small colleges in small towns far away in other states
 
1. Adding NDSU would turn the Mountain West into the Sun Belch. I don't THINK so....

2. I'm happy with the Hornets in FCS...which has REAL playoffs with a REAL national champion.

3. I'm sick of the poaching, anyway. I'd love to return to the days of 9-team leagues (10 for hoops with non-football-playing associate) so as to have an eight-game regular season without leaving anyone out (along with the attendant confusion over two undefeated teams who didn't play each other) and three decent OOC games (probably a D-II, a peer FCS, and a potential FCS scalp game). Those were the days....
 
Conference realignment IS happening and more shifts and moves will occur over the next 24 months. One the P4 plus Big 12 must get settled first. I can see Big10 canning a few teams and bringing a few more in. I still believe the G 5 will be on the outside of the playoffs with the above group, which is why they will cap it at 8 teams. I still think the G5 is going to want some sort of national championship but may be content to have some big name bowl games. I think several FCS teams realize this and are looking to grab up. Several East Coast teams are already making noise like JMU, Nova, etc. I am convinced there was a reason we had the hammer down at Cal, that is to show the MWC we can compete.

The FCS. Football Conference Sideshow. Once the heavies leave FCS, the FCS will be looked down upon much like D2 was back in the 80’s. Move up or move on will be thought process. Davis made that mistake once and almost got caught, they won’t do that again. I believe we were the team that the WAC was trying to get when they split, given the large media market. I think we see the MWC as the ideal offer, hence the reason WBB got a superstar coach.

I may be completely wrong here. Regardless, the landscape is changing and I believe we have the right Pres/AD to make move happen.
 
I think the administration underestimates the support that would come with a move to FBS, for all sports.

I am a supporter, even at the FCS level, I know my support would jump, if we made the jump…
 
Super Hornet said:
FCS...which has REAL playoffs with a REAL national champion.
Click to expand...

That’s very subjective. You just mean more appealing to you. I get it.

“Playoffs” in most sports are very watered down just to increase interest and drive up revenue. It’s rarely about determining who the actual best team is. If it were, some of these sports/leagues would see the ridiculousness of playing 80+ or 160+ games to then reset and allow a clearly inferior team the chance to win a single game or short series as if that somehow trumps the much larger sample size.

With regard to college football, there are those that consider a 16 or 24 team field very watered down. Too many teams allowed to participate that have little to no chance to win. And some on the fringe that are in no way the best team but in a single game elimination format can surely get lucky.

Honestly I believe the FBS would finally have it as close to right as can be with an 8-team field. The 12-team format is too large, which is likely why there are so many detractors. Hell, there are some that feel 4 is enough.

The only reason I like 8 over 4 is because not enough of the top teams play each other so there are teams left out based upon subjective opinion.

However in sports like the NBA, MLB and even NASCAR everyone competes against everyone over a long enough period that those that separate themselves over that time are clearly the best. There’s no need to reset with a large playoff field.

If these leagues are really set on large playoff fields, then shorten the regular seasons. There’s no need for long drawn out regular seasons if they are only determining seeding. And it would cut down on injuries. But we know they won’t do that due to revenue loss.

The College football season is short enough that a playoff field makes sense. The only dilemma is how big should the size of the field be.

Both the FBS and FCS suffer from being extremely top heavy. Most every season there are realistically only 3-5 programs that can win the title. And usually one or two dominant programs that usually win it.

Because of that, there’s really no need for a large playoff field. The winner is coming from the top 4.
 
HornetHope said:
Conference realignment IS happening and more shifts and moves will occur over the next 24 months. One the P4 plus Big 12 must get settled first. I can see Big10 canning a few teams and bringing a few more in. I still believe the G 5 will be on the outside of the playoffs with the above group, which is why they will cap it at 8 teams. I still think the G5 is going to want some sort of national championship but may be content to have some big name bowl games. I think several FCS teams realize this and are looking to grab up. Several East Coast teams are already making noise like JMU, Nova, etc. I am convinced there was a reason we had the hammer down at Cal, that is to show the MWC we can compete.

The FCS. Football Conference Sideshow. Once the heavies leave FCS, the FCS will be looked down upon much like D2 was back in the 80’s. Move up or move on will be thought process. Davis made that mistake once and almost got caught, they won’t do that again. I believe we were the team that the WAC was trying to get when they split, given the large media market. I think we see the MWC as the ideal offer, hence the reason WBB got a superstar coach.

I may be completely wrong here. Regardless, the landscape is changing and I believe we have the right Pres/AD to make move happen.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The next round will shake things up quite a bit. The other tidbit to this equation is what NIL is doing to separate the top P4 programs from everyone else. "Power" teams like TCU are already complaining about getting "unofficially" raided by schools that can offer its player better NIL deals.

That NIL stuff will of course trickle down and impact the separation between G4 and P4 schools.

I don't see the MWC backfilling with FCS programs unless they get raided pretty hard by the AAC and can't backfill with FBS Texas programs. At that point maybe they focus on a west coast conference with some FCS moveups (CA FCS schools). I think it's a long shot but who knows. The pandemic has really put a lot of these athletic departments in financial dire straights. The driver to reduce geographic footprint to save travel on the Oly sports is clearly there.

We have the right admin in place to make the moves. The facilities need to see the greatest improvements, but all that gets solved with a student referendum that Nelsen can forcibly enact even if the student vote it down. Golden1 is there for hoops in the interim so that shouldn't be a concern. The bigger concern is getting Hornet Stadium improved, even modestly, to have any appeal for consideration of an invite. Having our games on local TV is a nice boost as well, but Taylor needs to deliver on wins year in and year out to help us build our case. And fans need to follow suit and show up...now...to show support for our FB program.

This admin has been investing in quality coaches and upping the spending on budgets (see FB and WBB). How Nelsen/Orr handle the expiring Katz contract will be the true tell of where this athletic department is headed. For whatever idiotic reasons, Katz doesn't want to play more games in G1. Assuming the admin continues with its string of home run hires to backfill Katz, the new MBB HC will no doubt play more games there which will only help with that programs profile.

Interesting times ahead.
 
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
Super Hornet said:
FCS...which has REAL playoffs with a REAL national champion.
Click to expand...

That’s very subjective. You just mean more appealing to you. I get it.

“Playoffs” in most sports are very watered down just to increase interest and drive up revenue. It’s rarely about determining who the actual best team is. If it were, some of these sports/leagues would see the ridiculousness of playing 80+ or 160+ games to then reset and allow a clearly inferior team the chance to win a single game or short series as if that somehow trumps the much larger sample size.

With regard to college football, there are those that consider a 16 or 24 team field very watered down. Too many teams allowed to participate that have little to no chance to win. And some on the fringe that are in no way the best team but in a single game elimination format can surely get lucky.

Honestly I believe the FBS would finally have it as close to right as can be with an 8-team field. The 12-team format is too large, which is likely why there are so many detractors. Hell, there are some that feel 4 is enough.

The only reason I like 8 over 4 is because not enough of the top teams play each other so there are teams left out based upon subjective opinion.

However in sports like the NBA, MLB and even NASCAR everyone competes against everyone over a long enough period that those that separate themselves over that time are clearly the best. There’s no need to reset with a large playoff field.

If these leagues are really set on large playoff fields, then shorten the regular seasons. There’s no need for long drawn out regular seasons if they are only determining seeding. And it would cut down on injuries. But we know they won’t do that due to revenue loss.

The College football season is short enough that a playoff field makes sense. The only dilemma is how big should the size of the field be.

Both the FBS and FCS suffer from being extremely top heavy. Most every season there are realistically only 3-5 programs that can win the title. And usually one or two dominant programs that usually win it.

Because of that, there’s really no need for a large playoff field. The winner is coming from the top 4.
Click to expand...

Ignore him, he's drunk.
 
SDHornet said:
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
Super Hornet said:
FCS...which has REAL playoffs with a REAL national champion.
Click to expand...

That’s very subjective. You just mean more appealing to you. I get it.

“Playoffs” in most sports are very watered down just to increase interest and drive up revenue. It’s rarely about determining who the actual best team is. If it were, some of these sports/leagues would see the ridiculousness of playing 80+ or 160+ games to then reset and allow a clearly inferior team the chance to win a single game or short series as if that somehow trumps the much larger sample size.

With regard to college football, there are those that consider a 16 or 24 team field very watered down. Too many teams allowed to participate that have little to no chance to win. And some on the fringe that are in no way the best team but in a single game elimination format can surely get lucky.

Honestly I believe the FBS would finally have it as close to right as can be with an 8-team field. The 12-team format is too large, which is likely why there are so many detractors. Hell, there are some that feel 4 is enough.

The only reason I like 8 over 4 is because not enough of the top teams play each other so there are teams left out based upon subjective opinion.

However in sports like the NBA, MLB and even NASCAR everyone competes against everyone over a long enough period that those that separate themselves over that time are clearly the best. There’s no need to reset with a large playoff field.

If these leagues are really set on large playoff fields, then shorten the regular seasons. There’s no need for long drawn out regular seasons if they are only determining seeding. And it would cut down on injuries. But we know they won’t do that due to revenue loss.

The College football season is short enough that a playoff field makes sense. The only dilemma is how big should the size of the field be.

Both the FBS and FCS suffer from being extremely top heavy. Most every season there are realistically only 3-5 programs that can win the title. And usually one or two dominant programs that usually win it.

Because of that, there’s really no need for a large playoff field. The winner is coming from the top 4.
Click to expand...

Ignore him, he's drunk.
Click to expand...

Me, or SH? Lol
 
Kadeezy said:
I think the administration underestimates the support that would come with a move to FBS, for all sports.

I am a supporter, even at the FCS level, I know my support would jump, if we made the jump…
Click to expand...

Agree on all points.

I’ve made this point for years, and it’s still true: SAC is a top 20 media market. And this town is sports crazy. HS ball in the area is quite good and followed well in this region. Yet the closest D1 FBS programs reside in Berkeley and Reno.

This metro area of 2.5 million people is ripe for the taking if the Hornets can ascend to FBS, improve their facilities, and start bringing in known marquee FBS programs to town for games and compete well against them.
 
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
Kadeezy said:
I think the administration underestimates the support that would come with a move to FBS, for all sports.

I am a supporter, even at the FCS level, I know my support would jump, if we made the jump…
Click to expand...

Agree on all points.

I’ve made this point for years, and it’s still true: SAC is a top 20 media market. And this town is sports crazy. HS ball in the area is quite good and followed well in this region. Yet the closest D1 FBS programs reside in Berkeley and Reno.

This metro area of 2.5 million people is ripe for the taking if the Hornets can ascend to FBS, improve their facilities, and start bringing in known marquee FBS programs to town for games and compete well against them.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
BHF:

SD is being facetious, though there may be something to what he says. I'll acknowledge that his arguments are typically well-thought out, whereas I do try to think mine through, quite often I go with my heart against my head, particularly where Sac is concerned, or where my sense of propriety is concerned. For playoffs, I prefer a setup where EVERYONE has a legitimate chance (as one sees in the NCAA basketball tournament): every conference that chooses to participate has an auto-bid and the rest of the bracket is filled by at-large teams who are worthy within the specified number of teams. Yes, it's easy to go overboard with that (24-32 teams might be pushing it for FCS). But I like the drama one sees in the possibility of an upset. To define that out by deeming certain conferences (i.e. the G5) unworthy is devastating to the drama factor. Does that leave open the possibility of an ugly blowout? Of course it does. But I'd rather take that risk than lose out on the possibility that a Boise State or a Western Michigan could make noise in a real playoff by upsetting a UCLA or a Michigan. That's all I'm really trying to say.
 
Yes, Sacramento is a sports town . Just not a Big Sky Conference town

Hornet Stadium got instantly filled with the Mountain Lions, Gold Miners, the Surge. No t built up traditions, long histories, special marketing. It was just instant.

Other than the Causeway Classic once every two years Hornet Stadium is half empty for all Big Sky opponents.

Fresno State coming to play football at Hornet Stadium would be great. Plus Nevada, San Jose, San Diego, Boise, etc.

And as has been said so, so many times we want to have a program like Fresno State. We just need the jump up. Yes, better facilities are needed but Hornet Stadium was filled just fine as mention above. People will come out if we jump to FBS.
 
josephpoint said:
Yes, Sacramento is a sports town . Just not a Big Sky Conference town

Hornet Stadium got instantly filled with the Mountain Lions, Gold Miners, the Surge. No t built up traditions, long histories, special marketing. It was just instant.

Other than the Causeway Classic once every two years Hornet Stadium is half empty for all Big Sky opponents.

Fresno State coming to play football at Hornet Stadium would be great. Plus Nevada, San Jose, San Diego, Boise, etc.

And as has been said so, so many times we want to have a program like Fresno State. We just need the jump up. Yes, better facilities are needed but Hornet Stadium was filled just fine as mention above. People will come out if we jump to FBS.
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think it's as simple as "not a Big Sky Conference town". If the BSC was D1 FBS, the interest would be much different.

In short, SAC doesn't go for the AAA replacement option. Not like we did from during the 1930's to 1960's then again in the 1970's with the Solons.

Once the KINGS arrived in 1985, minor league events like the Pig Bowl started to fade in popularity. Once SAC had a taste of sports at it's highest level it just couldn't go back. Plus we started attracting defectors from LA and the Bay area that already had higher expectations.

I was at Sacramento's "March on Baseball" in Oakland in 1988. Also, not a lot of people seem to know this, but around that same time Al Davis was in negotiations with the KINGS and Greg Lukenbill to move the Raiders to SAC -- which would have resulted in Davis owning 75% of the KINGS and becoming the managing partner. According to those involved, it came fairly close to happening.

All of that type of momentum and grandiose dreaming kick started after the City fell in love with the KINGS and major league sports.

Not long later we landed the Sacramento Surge in 1991, the Sacramento Attack in 1992 and the Gold Miners in 1993.

The point being is that SAC was no longer heavily interested in supporting minor league sports as it once had been.

Yes, SAC landed the River Cats in 2000 and they led AAA in attendance for quite a while -- but it's never been close to what an actual MLB franchise would do here.

Same goes for FCS and D2 football. Only real reasons the River Cats routinely and consistently draw more fans than Sac State is because (A) the Cats are connected to a pro team and (B) because they have a very nice facility which was once state-of-the-art 20 years ago.

If the Hornets were ever to manage a state-of-the-art facility for either or both of their football and basketball programs -- the interest and attendance would spike significantly. Then add to it becoming part of the top level of college athletics? Fuggedaboutit.

That's what it's all about.

You can't draw or maintain any significant level of interest in minor league sports in SAC anymore, let alone do it with facilities that are worse than many aging high schools in the area. I mean, the small gym is one thing. But the restroom situation at the football stadium?? There just no excuse for it.

Sad thing is, the Hornets have been good enough at times over the past 22 years that had they ever been able to drastically improve the stadium or basketball gym -- the snowball effect would have them in a much better situation than they find themselves today. They might have been able to make the FBS jump already. And surely would have attracted even more talent and fielded better teams.
 
FBS Upgrade
The piece of the puzzle that has been missing for decades to get this done is the universities administration in the President and AD.

Remember they brought us Troy Taylor when nobody thought possible!

We can do it if we get an invite from a MWC for example that would be a NO Brainer decision.

The home / away games in that conference would be ELECTRIC!!!
 
FBS Upgrade Continued…

The Hornets would need another student referendum to increase funding for the added scholarships.
The MWC revenue sharing could finance the Football Upgrades / Basketball Arena Construction.

I’m guessing MWC if raised hard would look to add:

Montana / Montana State
Sac State / UC Davis.

I read an article saying American Conference wants
Air Force, Colorado State, San Diego State and Boise State.

That would be a large void to fill for the MWC.
 
Honestly.., the best timing to go from FCS to FBS was back in the day when Nevada Reno etc moved up.

The Big Sky doing a recreation of itself into an FBS conference would be the best overall.

A few schools can’t & wouldn’t want to go FBS. They could join WAC. Others from MVC and New Mexico State for example could join BigSky FBS.

I doubt the BigSky Commissioner and university presidents have considered it?
 
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