I've been a fan and attending basketball games for 45 years.i've seen hundreds of players,and a lot of coaches. Come and go.that does'nt make me a basketball guru,or any kind of expert on the basketball program.You don't have to be,to know a misguided program when I see one.I really think Randy Raye has tried, to build a solid program. I understand he is well liked generally in the community. The best he has done is once in a while field a team that's capable of winning the big sky season. I love the Big Sky, but the conference is regarded as very weak, by basketball's so called people in the know. It's reality. Even winning the Big Sky is not going to bring any respect outside of the conference. You have to be able to beat other division 1 teams outside the conference, and be competitive in tournaments. Randy's teams have rarely ever done that,and he's had 10 years of coaching the team. The reality as I see it, is that it's never going to happen, in another 10 years, either. I think a lot of other fans have become tired of getting pummeled by Utah State, Byu, and most other respectical programs, every pre conference season.Nothing is going to change, until a national search for a dynamic young, coach who understands what it takes to build a strong program and just needs a chance.No more assistant coaches from the area,who want to be the head coach. Ron Abbeglen understood what it took,and Weber was rewarded with big wins, like North Carolina, and Michigan State.Doe's any one really believe that will ever happen with the current coaching staff? The time is well past due for a coaching change.Sugar coating opinions on what the next year will bring, is just turning your head to reality.
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Facing facts
- Thread starter Rustynail
- Start date
Webergrad02
Active member
Rustynail said:
You say you want to face the facts but then you list mostly opinion and little facts. So lets look at the facts. You compare coach Rahe to Ronnie A so lets look at each of their accomplishments.
Coach A
151 wins vs. 84 losses for a .643 winning percentage
3 Regular season championships
2 tournament championships
2 NCAA tournament wins
0 losing seasons
NCAA infractions
Personal legal issues
Instate wins against BYU, Utah & USU
Solid in-game coach
Above average recruiting - Most recruiting success came from JC kids
Coach Rahe
180 wins vs. 102 losses for a .638 winning percentage
4 Regular season championships
2 tournament championships
0 NCAA tournament wins
0 NCAA infractions
0 Personal legal issues
Coached and developed a NBA all star
1 losing season
1 instate win against Utah, 2 against USU and 0 against BYU
Poor in game coach
Good recruiter has found success with High School, JC and transfers
Has two complete second half meltdowns in big games
Does not take full accountability for losing (We are young and inexperienced)
Overall I think Ronnie A was a better coach, but Randy has done some things better. He has kept his nose cleaner. He lacks the wins in the big games but I think he can get there. I think we need better assistants than what we have. Why not pay a little more and get someone that is good in game to help Randy? This year has been a disaster on many levels, but I don't think you get rid of coach Rahe. Hopefully he learns from this season. There are many things that can be better, but you can't over look the other seasons success.
Here is what I would do if I was in Randys shoes
Send coaches Smiley and Lever packing and replace with one older coach and one young gun.
Send Hill, Golden and Costen packing and anyone else that can't play team ball.
Take the names off of the back of the jerseys.
Sit players that pump their chests and show the individual mentality
Open all positions up for next season. Past performance does not mean crap. Being senior does not automatically give you minutes.
If I was one of the donors that supplies the "privately sourced part of Randys contract:
I deduct $1,000 from his salaryevery time he says that his team is young and inexperienced.
I re-write the bonus structure to reward instate and good road wins.
Deduct bonuses for absolute collapses.
Overall this program needs more accountability from the top to the bottom. Lets focus on Randy's strengths and get him help in area's that he needs it. Of course he will need to be less stubborn. I think we need to demand improvements but still support coach. We have lost some of the discipline that has made this program great.
flylikeasparrow
Active member
Send coaches Smiley and Lever packing and replace with one older coach and one young gun.
I would keep Smiley and send Duft packing.
I would keep Smiley and send Duft packing.
Tough crowd, send coaches and players packing?
I understand that this was a difficult year, but I think we can look to the future with confidence that this will get fixed. I do agree that things need to change and I'm confident that Rahe and his staff feel that things need to change, but this was Smiley's and Lever's first season........ Send them packing?
Coaches can only coach players that want to be coached. Smiley and Lever inherited these players, they didn't select them. How is it accountable to get fired for players you didn't recruit?
Guys, take a deep breath and let Rahe address the issues. I'm confident that we don't have the whole story and he's making the necessary corrections to get the program back on track! This year is a huge disappointment, but I think it's too early to clean the deck!
I understand that this was a difficult year, but I think we can look to the future with confidence that this will get fixed. I do agree that things need to change and I'm confident that Rahe and his staff feel that things need to change, but this was Smiley's and Lever's first season........ Send them packing?
Coaches can only coach players that want to be coached. Smiley and Lever inherited these players, they didn't select them. How is it accountable to get fired for players you didn't recruit?
Guys, take a deep breath and let Rahe address the issues. I'm confident that we don't have the whole story and he's making the necessary corrections to get the program back on track! This year is a huge disappointment, but I think it's too early to clean the deck!
Wow 02!! I'm in shock! You forgot about a win over the Utes. Randy has 2.
I know it is tough saying it, but certain players won't be back next year. We all kinda know who will be "counseled" out at the end of the season. They just aren't Randy esque players and that means they will be somewhere else next year.
I do have an idea with regard to coaches. There is this big frumpy guy retiring up north who is a pro at coaching and developing bigs. Heard he might be a bit bored next year. Might need him to advise our coaching staff on how to coach bigs. Also maybe the Ags will be interested in a trade. They can have Hill we will take Collette or Moore. Interested??
I know it is tough saying it, but certain players won't be back next year. We all kinda know who will be "counseled" out at the end of the season. They just aren't Randy esque players and that means they will be somewhere else next year.
I do have an idea with regard to coaches. There is this big frumpy guy retiring up north who is a pro at coaching and developing bigs. Heard he might be a bit bored next year. Might need him to advise our coaching staff on how to coach bigs. Also maybe the Ags will be interested in a trade. They can have Hill we will take Collette or Moore. Interested??
DeeWildcatTailgater
Active member
You guys are crazy. We dance last year, lose 4 conference games the previous 2 years combined, and you want coach's job because of one bad year? Look what happened when MAC left the football team! Coach Rahe will figure things out and we will be back stronger than ever.
WEber nation!
WEber nation!
catscratched
Active member
I really like this coaching staff. They are all very knowledgeable and have high integrity. We just need the right players, who will accept their roles, and play the way they are coached. We will be just fine. :thumb: :thumb:
oldrunner
Active member
We've been blessed with some truly excellent coaches here at WSU; Mata, Johnson, Visher, McCarthy, Abegglan, and Rahe. We've had a few stinkers as well. They all had their strengths and weaknesses. None of these coaches went undefeated and all of them lost games they probably should have won. As fans, we want them to win every game. That is not realistic, but it's part of being a fan. Coaches and administrators understand that and try to temper everything they hear from us. However, calling for someones head on a platter is still hurtful and a little bit shameful.
I really like our coaches and what they are trying to do. We all have our little failures, but we are not failures unless we quit and throw in the towel. I support Randy and his staff 100%. :rockon:
I really like our coaches and what they are trying to do. We all have our little failures, but we are not failures unless we quit and throw in the towel. I support Randy and his staff 100%. :rockon:
Cats meow!
Active member
Good post Olds! I support your sentiment, but can only throw 75-85% support behind the program right now! I'd like to get a better understanding on what happened this year! I don't know if everyone has figured it out yet, but we are endangered of not making the tourney in one of the worst conferences in the country! Which would cement our status as one of the worst teams in the country! I can't say I expected that in October!
I do feel that Rahe needs to stop being a Stu clone and develop his own identity. He also owes us more than his dreadful Coach speak!
Can't fire him for an off season, but I hope Bovee is being an administrator and asking for some answers!
I do feel that Rahe needs to stop being a Stu clone and develop his own identity. He also owes us more than his dreadful Coach speak!
Can't fire him for an off season, but I hope Bovee is being an administrator and asking for some answers!
I agree with Olds!! I'll admit it...I'm a Rahe homer!! Sir Velo is a Rahe Townie. Even though he was let go. I'll even say that Jumpin Joe was an above-average coach. He after all won an Oqquirh Bucket and went undefeated in the Sky. What a season!! What a semester!! What a great time to go to College! Only bad thing was Sir Velo wouldn't shut up on the bus ride to Spokane. The dude talked for 14 straight hours. :doh:
I just want to point this out...I was not condoning replacing Rahe. I'm a Rahe fan!! I just feel that Stew boy could provide some relative consulting on how best to develop bigs.
I just want to point this out...I was not condoning replacing Rahe. I'm a Rahe fan!! I just feel that Stew boy could provide some relative consulting on how best to develop bigs.
Webergrad02
Active member
Here is why I look to the assistants. This team lacks discipline and toughness. I have heard that an assistant was getting after some of the reserves for playing the starters too physical and tough in practice. The chemistry isn't right with the team and some of that may be linked to the assistants. There has been very little in the way of player development this season. We can't do the same thing next season and expect different results.
oldrunner
Active member
When you are talking about player development not taking place, you are incorrect. There may be one or two players who just don't seem to get it, but the majority have shown steady improvement. Bolomboy's offensive game has improved dramatically, Senglin's leadership and ball handling improved to where he can play at the point now, Gitten's defense really showed improvement. The coaches are putting the time and effort into player development. If some players are not improving, I think you have to put that on them. What is the old saying? 'You can buy them books and send them to school, but you can't make them learn.' I think that applies here.
There will certainly be some changes. We will get better by addition and by subtraction. :twocents:
There will certainly be some changes. We will get better by addition and by subtraction. :twocents:
Webergrad02
Active member
oldrunner said:
:tothehand:
Senglin continues to duck his head, take on 3 defenders and commit a charge. There are times when he is better but there are also area where he keeps making the same bad decisions.
Bolomboy has developed the outside game. He is still not a real effective post scorer. He has morphed into a stretch 5.
Gittens - Defense is solid at times. I haven't seen a lot of offensive progress and he really needs to work on the mental aspect of the game.
Hill - I haven't seen much development at all.
I am not saying that Beckner was the greatest thing ever but I felt like guys were improving during the season.
oldrunner
Active member
Beckner did work hard, with some players, on skill development. However, our new coaches are working just as hard and doing the exact same things. They are not calling the players derogatory names, so if that is what you are getting at, maybe they should start. That is probably what makes a program great. :willybs:
webergrad02 said:
Weber02 just gave a great synopsis of what's wrong with the team this year and I agree on every point. I really liked the honesty and I'd like to see someone refute his points! Senglin is a head down, shoot first PG, Bolomboy has gone soft and has not developed in the post, Gittens is a ME first guy with a very poor mental game and Hill..........? Surprised he didn't even mention Golden.
Weber had the defensive and freshman player of the year returning and they both did not live up to expectations. Don't get lost in Senglin's scoring...... He's the quarterback of a losing team. He's suppose to be the glue! It's obvious that he doesn't want to be a point guard!
I like the thought of bringing Stu in as an advisor, but feel maybe it's time to find the next Beckner instead. I know Olds wants a coach that's willing to coddle the players, but I'm not sure that's the right approach. Hopefully it's somewhere in between. Looking at post season honors in the BSC...... I'd be surprised if a Weber state player is in the mix for any award.
I'm starting to think that next year IS a make or break year for Rahe!
SWeberCat02
Active member
I just keep looking around at the likes of Stephen F Austin, Northern Iowa, and North Dakota St and wonder why Weber can't be that same kind of program. Do they have more or better resources? I don't think so. The only thing I can think of that they have that Weber doesn't is a better conference. And maybe that is the issue. Maybe it's simply impossible to rise to that level when you belong to a really bad conference. I don't know all the answers, but I don't think it's unfair to question if Rahe is the right coach to take the program to a higher level. If you're happy with competing for the conference championship every year, and not much else, then Rahe is your man. But he hasn't yet proved that he can get the program beyond that. And some of us aren't just beginning to question Rahe because he's finally having a losing season. We've been questioning him for much longer due to his general inability to win out-of-conference and in-state.
SWeberCat02 said:
:clap: Absolutely, this year Coach Rahe has to accept some blame for missteps with what has probably turned into his most challenging year. Playing a couple of players outside their positions of strength, being very limited in his in-game coaching strategies and clinging to limited (plausible but not all) reasoning for results. I do hope, as some posters state, he will learn a few lessons from this season and get fixes made. Observing his coaching over 10 years, he is not showing the flexibility that it takes to make any big strides forward. Next season will be very telling as to any changes for the better; I foresee Coach Rahe getting his team back to winning ways in the Big Sky, but not outside it. That for several fans is fine, but some of us want more and, yes, within reasonable expectations. :nod:
