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Georgia Travel abuses?

GOBIGORANGE

Active member
Cub, this question is for you. I was told that ISU only cleared less than $150,000 of the $650,000 that was received from the Georgia game. I heard we took 60 players and 60 boosters. The coaches could not take their wives but Tingey took his whole family and President Valias even attended. (Does Valias even attend the home games, I really do not know that is why I am asking).Cub, could you find out about the expenses and if you can't can you tell me where to look. No wonder we do not have enough money to get a new turf or anything else. If this is true it is a shame to send our players out to play these games so our administration can take vacations.
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
Cub, this question is for you. I was told that ISU only cleared less than $150,000 of the $650,000 that was received from the Georgia game. I heard we took 60 players and 60 boosters. The coaches could not take their wives but Tingey took his whole family and President Valias even attended. (Does Valias even attend the home games, I really do not know that is why I am asking).Cub, could you find out about the expenses and if you can't can you tell me where to look. No wonder we do not have enough money to get a new turf or anything else. If this is true it is a shame to send our players out to play these games so our administration can take vacations.

I am not sure about any of this and I have no idea how to find out. I do know that ISU has some money in the bank after the last two years of playing money games.

If the team flew charter to Georgia, then I am sure that most of the boosters paid a flat fee to take the trip. I would not doubt that lots of people took friends and family and I would not be surprised if some boosters did not have to pay. In the past I have made trips with ISU on charters and I have paid my own way. Then again, I was not a booster at the time. Also, I think and I could be wrong that the team plays a flat fee for the plane. At least I think I have been told that it doesn't matter how many go or how full it is--you have to pay a minimum amount.

I am probably wrong about all of this.

ISU will have a football field in place next year and you will enjoy the Kramer era. The money for guarantee was most likely used to help out the whole athletic department. Maybe it helps with Zamberlin's buyout and the courtship of Coach Kramer.
 
Yes, I am excited about the Kramer hire, but again I was excited about the Zamberlin hire, also. I tried for years to defend Zamberlin but I just couldn't do it any longer. Everything I have read indicates that Kramer will add some life to the program. I am a little concerned about the APR and bringing "thugs" into the program, but I will wait and hope for the best. I am not going to bring up the recruit more Idaho because I know everyone is sick of that topic but I do hope Kramer will try to get the best Idaho players that he can get. There really are some Idaho players that have excelled. I really do not see Kramer retaining any of the current coaching staff, except possibly Miller because of Millers ties to Montana. Just thinking.
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
Yes, I am excited about the Kramer hire, but again I was excited about the Zamberlin hire, also. I tried for years to defend Zamberlin but I just couldn't do it any longer. Everything I have read indicates that Kramer will add some life to the program. I am a little concerned about the APR and bringing "thugs" into the program, but I will wait and hope for the best. I am not going to bring up the recruit more Idaho because I know everyone is sick of that topic but I do hope Kramer will try to get the best Idaho players that he can get. There really are some Idaho players that have excelled. I really do not see Kramer retaining any of the current coaching staff, except possibly Miller because of Millers ties to Montana. Just thinking.

These are valid concerns. I had some of the same worries. However, I can assure you that ISU is doing this the right way. If Mike Kramer was as bad as some folks believe--why would the Montana State fans have so much good to say of him? Read this thread on the Bobcat forum and tell me if this sounds like a guy that a community hates?

http://www.bobcatnation.com/bobcatbb/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22944
 
The numbers I understood for playing UG was $525K and not the $650k that you speak of, but I could be wrong. When flying charter, it's a flat rate for the plane based on flight hours and not how many people travel. Even though 60 boosters sounds pretty ridiculous, it wouldn't cost too much extra and most of them pay a rate for their flight and hotel rooms. I'm sure some of those were complimentary so the only loss would come from their rooms. There is a cost to ISU when they go but it's minimal. Commercial flights would be a different story. I'm hoping they were all people who contribute to keep ISU sports running. However, bringing Tingey's whole family is a slap in the face to Zamberlin because he requested to have his family travel with him to games and was denied. Valias was most likely just on vacation. I doubt he even went to the game. The $150k sounds about right when considering taking around $120k away for travel expenses and then splitting the money between ISU's general fund, the student fund, the athletic department, and leaving the rest to football. I'm guessing it didn't yield too much towards the new turf. In reality, it most likely only paid for Zamberlin's buy out. Not having to worry about that anymore kinda puts that in the win column right?
 
No, it doesn't put that in the win column when we are so desperate for funds for the football program. It was stupid to extend the contract last year and really stupid to extend it for two years so we have to have a buy out. I am not OK with the expenses and I really want to see where the money went. I feel the players,public and boosters are entitled to see where that money went. I would actually like to see where the money games for the last two years has been dispersed. This is a slap in the face to the players that have sacrificied so much the last few years. I feel this is mismanagement and someone needs to be held accountable.
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
No, it doesn't put that in the win column when we are so desperate for funds for the football program. It was stupid to extend the contract last year and really stupid to extend it for two years so we have to have a buy out. I am not OK with the expenses and I really want to see where the money went. I feel the players,public and boosters are entitled to see where that money went. I would actually like to see where the money games for the last two years has been dispersed. This is a slap in the face to the players that have sacrificied so much the last few years. I feel this is mismanagement and someone needs to be held accountable.

Like I said, the money gets split between those four funds and do I think it's right? Hell no! If you want to see where the money goes, well, ask. Do I think its right for players to put their bodies in harms way against these big-time schools just for money? No. But, I do know its a necessary evil in order to keep the wheels turning. Believe me, I played in those blood money games...they are fun for about two minutes. Players shouldn't have to play those games and ruin any chance at a winning season just so some foreign exchange student can get his or her's school paid for, but thats reality. I agree with you that the funds for those games should be known. Maybe that way the money would go to the people to earned it...the players. If athletics makes the money then it should stay in athletics. Were all of those 60 people legitimate boosters? Who knows. I'm not ok with having to sacrifice players just so others can turn it into a vacation either. But I am grateful to those who are boosters helping out the program. They should be rewarded for what they do. Playing against UG week 8 was a mistake. Playing them earlier in the year would have given those seniors a better chance at winning one of their last two games. It might not have been the best decision to do so, but I also believe ISU will benefit from it in time.
 
From your response Dogood, I gather that you played football for the Bengals in the past. I thank you for your contribution. What are your feelings about the state of the ISU football program moving forward?
 
Orange--Called and talked to a booster who went on the trip...

Jeff Tingey did not take his whole family. Tingey may have took his wife, but the kids did not go.
Pres. Vailas and Kent Tingey did go, as well as two from university admin that travels to money games. The student body president and vice-president also went, as they get to go to a money game each year, too. Booster source is quite certain there were NOT 60 total boosters on the trip, because all of the boosters traveled with a few players and all the support staff and admin on buses that only hold about 50 people each. Most of the boosters paid their way and there were some key boosters (DeWalls Construction) who probably got the trip as a "thank you" for helping out with the softball stadium. Zamberlin was allowed to take a large number of players who were either out for the season, and even some who were never going to play this year. Booster estimates there were 10-to-15 players that did not dress for the game that traveled with the team.
 
It's a public university. Request to see where the money went. Be a big boy and call and ask for it yourself.

It was a pretty standard trip. Nothing out of the norm that I can see. Except a butt whoopin in Georgia.
 
As for losing other paying events at holt with the new turf. The current turf stays down all football season. Rarely is one of those events during the fall. So we wouldn't lose out on them due to the new turf staying down. Just a thought. As for turf color, alternating black and orange with white lines and numbers... kinda a stripe motif with a big tiger logo in the middle.
 
bengalcub said:
From your response Dogood, I gather that you played football for the Bengals in the past. I thank you for your contribution. What are your feelings about the state of the ISU football program moving forward?

I was fortunate enough to play at ISU and am proud to call myself a Bengal for life. Even with the current struggles that ISU is having, I have faith things are going to turn for the better. Now I don't claim to know all the secrets to winning, I do know what it takes to have a winning program. Things ISU needs to address:

5. Student-Athlete Support: In my time at ISU I have never seen President Vailas. How is that possible? My only interaction with Tingey was when he told me to call him Jeff, instead of Sir. Now knowing the president and being buddies with the athletic director are not a priority to do well, it's nice to know they are behind you. The athletic administration needs a serious revamp. There have been many players who become ineligible not because of grades, but by misguided information given to athletes. These councilors need to be made accountable for their screw ups. Changes need to be made in that office. Now I can't say that I have personally had a problem besides getting my major changed without notice, many others are less fortunate. When I started we were told there were going to be people assigned to checking our progress throughout the semester and this never happened. Instead, this duty was pawned off to the coaches and that shouldn't be the job of a coach. They already have enough on their plates. Keeping players eligible not only keeps them on the field, but it lets them accomplish the overall goal of graduating.

4. Facilities: The plans for Bengal Village were nothing more than failed hopes and dreams. The new additions of a new weight room and locker room are nice. But, the practice field and scotch brite turf are in need of serious upgrades. Too many players have been hurt stepping in pot holes on the practice field and the turf inside Holt would make better use washing dishes than being a playing surface for a football game. Players cringe at the thought of playing on that stuff in fear of injury. With plans of new field turf and promises of a new practice field will help prevent these avoidable injuries and will be a great help with recruiting. A dedicated film room would certainly help with meetings and game preparation. The daily shuffle of finding classrooms and going into coaches' offices is plain ridiculous. I believe it was Archimedes who said, "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.” Winning games cannot be done on the cheap. A lot goes into winning and investing in the program will turn the tide. Give the program the tools needed and they will give you results.

3. Travel: I am not here to make excuses, but travel makes a big difference in how a team performs. I have done both flying charter out of Pocatello Regional Airport as well as busing down to SLC International. It's night and day. I think anyone would agree that being in the air within 15 minutes of leaving the house at noon is certainly better than leaving on a bus at 6am. With the ways of travel now it only adds to the wear of the season. For example: Traveling charter involves leaving at noon the day before a game and getting back late Saturday night. Traveling commercial involves leaving on a bus at 6am on Friday and staying an extra night after the game, not getting back till Sunday evening. Now I was no psychology major, but having players up from 5am till 10pm the day before a game probably isn't a good thing. It is what it is and I know it's no excuse for losing games on the road, but there needs to be a better way of doing it. It does no good to practice and plan for a game if we are going to shit down our leg trying to get there. Flying commercially out of Pocatello or Idaho Falls might be that happy medium of traveling conveniently while still being cheaper than charter.

2. Coaching: As far as coach Zamberlin and his staff goes, all I will say is that they worked their tails off and their coaching abilities far exceeded their record. I wish them best of luck wherever they go. Coaching is a business of winning and unfortunately it didn't work out that way. The players are at just as much fault and I take blame for that. A new staff is being assembled now and I welcome them to the Bengal family. I hope they can bring success to the program. One coach that needs to go is Mark Campbell, head of strength and conditioning. I have no personal grudges against him. My only problem is the fact that his program hinders the success of the program. As a strength coach, he spends more time with players than any other. Football coaches can only spend 20 hours a week with players and even less during winter conditioning and spring ball. Mark has an hour with players each day, along with the entire summer. He has the most crucial job of getting players bigger, faster, and stronger. Does ISU have anyone near the size of players at Montana or Eastern Washington? The weights program is a joke. It's hard to respect a person and buy into his regimen while he sits in his office and watches movies during workouts. He has no supervision over his players and his workouts come from the back of cereal boxes. This is an area were the Bengals can improve greatly and it simply is not happening. No matter who the coaches recruit, they aren't going to develop to their full potential unless they are trained properly. The players and coaches have voiced their opinions and Tingey needs to make a change.

1. Fans and Community: We aren't in the NFL. These players don't play for a pay check. We play for the love of the game. We chose to come to Pocatello to be part of something bigger than ourselves. When we play, we represent Idaho State University and the state of Idaho. The support of the fans speaks volumes on assuring us that we came to the right place. Getting a win each and every week is something that can't be promised, but giving our best effort can be. One upside to playing in these blood money games was seeing the support of 80,000 fans cheering you on, even if they came in the form of boos. Having a busy student-athlete schedule and living on a college budget, going out to eat is a rare occasion. When we do, it feels great seeing a Bengal poster in the window, or someone wearing an orange shirt of support. Some of my fondest memories didn't come from the wins or loses, they came from signing autographs and taking pictures with the people we try our very best to represent. Times are changing for ISU football and I urge you to be a part of it. They represent you, the fans, so cheer them on and come show your support. I promise you they will give you their best!

- S. Dogood

GO BENGALS!
 
Posted by GOBIGORANGE---moved to this thread.

S. Dogwood, thank you for that post. It is refreshing to actually hear from someone on the inside and you made very vadid points to the success of the program. Obviously, you have completed your stint as a Bengal but I personally want to thank you as a player for sticking with the program and giving all you had to give. I have heard complaints before about ISU's strength and conditioning coach and I have to wonder also if that may be the reason we have soooooo many injuries. That is one area that could have been changed years ago and I wonder why it was never addressed.
 
JJB, could it be that maybe you made that trip to Georgia? I am a big boy and I will ask about the PUBLIC records regarding the expenses of the blood money games. I was just asking Cub because I respect and believe what he posts unlike some of the garbage that come from the ISU athletic administration office.I am tired of seeing the FOOTBALL PLAYERS getting screwed for the success of OTHER peoples agenda.
 
Dogood--Thank you so much for your insight. I appreciate you taking the time to put your thoughts into writing.
 
At the Bengal Foundation auction last spring, 4 tickets to the Georgia game were auctioned off. If I recall correctly, they sold for around $2,500 each. So I'm sure that four of the boosters there were as a result of that auction.
 
Baller, thank you for that information. That was an awesome idea. All I am saying is that is PUBLIC money and there are stipulations on how PUBLIC money can be spent. Didn't we just go thru a softball coach misusing ISU funds?
 
Not sure where folks think funds are being misused. Some money of games like that go towards the football program (I think one year they used a ton of it to upgrade their whole video system), some goes towards scholarships if needed, and most of it into the general budget.

A news organization or a person I believe can file a public records request, but they must be willing to pay the fee for copying and all of those things. It's laughable hearing how someone posts that Jeff took his entire family and all of a sudden there is misuse of public funds. Jeff is pretty straight-forward, and Jim Kramer watches money like a hawk over there.

The one thing you do when you have a charter is utilize some of the seats to give back to those who have given...case in point the DeWalls, or other boosters. To say 60 FB staff and 60 boosters is on a trip is silly...you would take the following...and these are estimates....

56 players
11 coaches
3 equipment
2 doctors
2 trainers
1 SID
2 radio
3 Administration (sometimes more)
1 University Photographer

I'm sure I'm leaving folks out but that's 81, and I want to say we usually had 85 on a trip. There would probably on a flight like that be no more than 30 boosters (give or take). I'm sure they used that trip for the car dealers on the courtesy car program (we did that in the past).

I highly doubt anything fishy happened with the $525,000 from the trip. Folks can ask though, as it's well within their right.

And after the Larry Stocking incident you referenced before, Jeff and Jim put quite a few things in place to prevent that from happening again.

I'll say this...I was LIVID that Kramer basically said that I had to pay to have my wife come on the Oklahoma trip. Worked at that time for 11 years and all those hours away from home, and I had to pay for her to go...well, I donated a frequent flyer trip back to the department to cover her ticket, but that pissed me off actually. That was something that soured me a lot at the time...sorry to digress.

FormerISUSID
 
Frank, Harry Truman wouldn't pave a new road to his mother's house and spend taxpayer money to fix her property up when he was Jackson County Judge in the 1920's, thus really pissing her off. Truman still refused to do it.

That's the attitude you need to have :)

I agree with everything Steven DoGood said in his post. No complaints here.

Concerning specially covered turf: if that ever comes to pass, I'll be at Holt with a torch and gasoline. Let's keep it green, PLEASE. Here's my idea for the field: replace the endzones with "IDAHO STATE" in block letters, white lettering with orange outlining, and the endzones should be black. Replace the midfield logo with "Bengals" in cursive, like Cincinatti used to have, or the Block "IS" logo.
 
Frank, how do you think I feel when I give $750 a year to the Foundation, and I only get a free place to park and a bag of popcorn at halftime? Which is what boosters who donate $200, $400, $1000 and $1500 also receive. Maybe if I donated $10,000 or $20,000 a year then just maybe I'd receive some free tickets every now and then.
 

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