Good Kramer Presentation in I-F

[bpcats1]

He is serious about not using a scholarship on a punter. He likes to use the quarterback (if he is any good at it) with the roll punt. He likes the threat having the threat of QB throwing a pass and keeping PR team on its toes.

On defense he does bring a lot pressure. When he has man corners he will play man. My guess is that since you guys are down a lot of guys on defense and short on scholarships, then he may be trying to protect the secondary.

 

[Bengal Roar]

People, think about it. That is all ISU has had going for it, is the punters. Yes, there has been some good punters in the past.

Do you want a team that can win championships and have winning seasons or do you want a sub-par team with good punters?

Has punting won games for us in the past 4-7 years? Not saying that punting isn't important. It is time to get real and put winning teams on the field.

You are missing the forest for the trees. Trust in this Coach.

 

[pocatato]

As Rick Neuweasle at ucla says, "Punting is winning."

 

[isusuperfan]

As I stated in another thread, a rugby-style punt is inefficient. You cannot have any dude just kick the ball. In rugby, while we'll have guys kick in dangerous situations regarding field position, we have a few select players who were recruited, in part, by their kicking abilities. We have two players who are probably the most lethal in the conference when it comes to deep and efficient kicking.

Point is, you cannot have a football team without your special teams. Punting may not be winning but it's a damn good part of the equation. This is what I despise so much about Oregon-type teams. You are shorting not just players and positions, you are shorting an entire aspect of the game. Besides for all the talk about how great offense is, Oregon has lost 6 of their last 8 bowl games, one of which came at the hands of ESPN's favorite whipping boy, my Buckeyes...a team that heartily admits love for the punters.

Furthermore, Bengal Roar..."
Do you want a team that can win championships and have winning seasons or do you want a sub-par team with good punters?"

Really? You're putting that question into THAT kind of context? Rephrase that and come back when it's not so blatantly biased. Giving us a choice between good punting and good teams is a really bad way to go about it.

I like the winning attitude we're trying to put in here but we shouldn't do it at the expense of a whole aspect of the game. Speed and offense ain't all, folks.

 

[bengalcub]

By keeping your QB on the field you have your fake team on the field on fourth down. The defense is forced to keep a defensive package on the field and it is difficult to set up returns because the oponents special teams (return unit) is not on the field. The hesitation on the roll out forces the defense to honor the fake and if you have a QB that can execute, this type of punt can be very effective. The problem comes if that QB can't do it.

It will drive some folks crazy and other will be fine with it. However, it looks like it is part of the Kramer philosophy. So, we are going to see it.

 

[JJB]

2005, when QB Lulay was a senior at Montana State.

PUNTING G Punts Avg Ret Yds Avg Net/P
----------------------------------------------------------
Northern Arizona.... 11 64 42.7 24 229 3.6 39.1
Montana............. 12 73 40.6 30 162 2.2 38.4
Montana State....... 11 46 39.8 18 169 3.7 36.1
Idaho State......... 11 59 39.5 26 282 4.8 34.7
Portland State...... 11 58 38.0 27 211 3.6 34.3
Sacramento State.... 11 84 38.2 40 500 6.0 32.2
Eastern Washington.. 12 50 38.6 24 362 7.2 31.4
Weber State......... 11 65 36.4 27 486 7.5 29.0

PUNTING Team Cl G Punt Yds Avg
----------------------------------------------
Rhian Madrid... NAU JR 11 61 2623 43.0
Travis Lulay... MSU SR 11 43 1769 41.1
Tyson Johnson.. UM JR 11 63 2585 41.0
Dan Zeidman.... ISU SO 11 58 2329 40.2
Mitch Lively... SAC JR 11 81 3202 39.5
Andrew Levers.. PSU JR 10 50 1966 39.3
Wyatt Kennah... WSU SR 11 64 2368 37.0

It didn't turn out too bad for them then, did it? If the QB can't do it, the right fit will.

 

[spudbowl]

yes, Lulay was great in this role and I remember always wondering if he was going to punt or pass when he rolled out. I think we are used to being pinned deep in our own territory and wanting a punter to boom it out of there. Was Lulay a punter in high school or did Kramer convert him?

 

[Jahim]

I kinda like the approach with the punter. Doesn't mean there won't be one on the team just not one on scholarship. Good chance for a local walk on to fill the role?

This really seems like a non issue

 

[Bengal Roar]

Furthermore, Bengal Roar..."
Do you want a team that can win championships and have winning seasons or do you want a sub-par team with good punters?"

Really? You're putting that question into THAT kind of context? Rephrase that and come back when it's not so blatantly biased. Giving us a choice between good punting and good teams is a really bad way to go about it.

I will keep my post as it was. And yes super I am putting that question into THAT kind of context!

Case and point...How has ISU's record been in the last 5 years with excellent punters? Crap

Like I said in the above post, punting was about the ONLY positive thing that ISU had going for them.

And super, before you start getting all excited why don't you have some faith in a "winning" and "proven" coach!?

I know it is hard for some but let the "old" ways die. Let all the bad habits and all the brain washed "this is how we do it at ISU" go! This is the Kramer era now.

Kramer thinks outside the box and he will make sure the punts get executed.

 

[sasquatch]

I bet the punting game will be a work in progress. Harrington is an absolute stud, arguably the best returning punter in the FCS, and is an academic all-conference performer. You know he's going to see the field this fall, and I bet we see glimpses of the roll punt as well.

 

[isusuperfan]

Roar, I love you and all, but I'm going to have to kick your ass over this.

You put it in such a narrow context that I keep having to do double takes when I read it. You say we're bad because we have great punters? Fine. Go ahead and totally f***ing ignore a major aspect of the game because you're so damn obsessed with speed and glitz and flash and whatever ESPN is promoting at the moment and that you're so hellbent on having a proven coach after a horrid era of football. I say, it's wise to question one PARTICULAR decision of not having good punters. I made the mistake of blindly following the Zamberlin Era. Never again will I make that mistake; I will be much smarter this time around Sure, you could score 60+points a game and never punt. But I'd rather have a great punter on scholly, ready to go when we need it, than having a crappy special teams game when the time calls for us to use the kicking game because the offense couldn't get it done.

You correlate good punting with bad seasons. WTF is WRONG with you?! We had great punting BECAUSE OUR OFFENSE AND COACHING WAS BEYOND PATHETIC. It's not the punter's fault our O-Line lost their manhood and didn't believe in protecting ANY QB we stuck in there (I remarked this past season you could have Roger Staubach with that line and STILL never get an offense going). It's not the punter's fault that we placed Tavoy Moore, a speedback, in power-running situations when we had Wes Howard for that. It wasn't the punter's fault that our playcalling was abhorrent, nor was it the punter's fault for LOSING 60-70% OF ENTIRE RECRUITING CLASSES EVERY YEAR FOR 4 F***ING YEARS. And it wasn't the punter's fault that the offense constantly shut down in the red zone. Get a CLUE!!!

Idealism must be tempered with realism to create the greatest weapons in our quest for empire; faith must be combined with reason. I thought 4 years of Zamberlin had proven this. Sure Kramer has won at MSU and Eastern and I am glad to have him. But I will not repeat old mistakes, and I will not fall into that trap of marching onward into new eras without taking a good look at things.

 

[FormerISUSID]

I can distinctly remember the 30-28 game in Bozeman where Lulay's punting killed us. He unleashed a wicked 77-yarder rugby style that Emery I believe couldn't catch up to, and then on a 4th-and-7 or so from the ISU 26, he had Lulay pooch on to the 2-yard line.

If you do it right it works...I would bet he goes half and half with Harrington...he will let him kick it normal at times, and go the other way at times as well.

FormerISUSID

 

[BengalSapper]

All this talk of speed and punting! It is very simple we need smart players that can work hard in school and represent ISU. Players that are professional with an attention to detail that keep their cool work hard and don’t get called for stupid penalties. Players that stay out of trouble and don’t bring unwanted attention to ISU and give the football team a bad name. If the players work hard and the coaches do their job a Smart football team can do amazing things (look at BSU) and can level the playing field against speed and size. The goal is one thing 4 yards a down and we will win.

 

[Bengal Roar]

Roar, I love you and all, but I'm going to have to kick your ass over this.

You put it in such a narrow context that I keep having to do double takes when I read it. You say we're bad because we have great punters? Fine. Go ahead and totally f***ing ignore a major aspect of the game because you're so damn obsessed with speed and glitz and flash and whatever ESPN is promoting at the moment and that you're so hellbent on having a proven coach after a horrid era of football. I say, it's wise to question one PARTICULAR decision of not having good punters. I made the mistake of blindly following the Zamberlin Era. Never again will I make that mistake; I will be much smarter this time around Sure, you could score 60+points a game and never punt. But I'd rather have a great punter on scholly, ready to go when we need it, than having a crappy special teams game when the time calls for us to use the kicking game because the offense couldn't get it done.

You correlate good punting with bad seasons. WTF is WRONG with you?! We had great punting BECAUSE OUR OFFENSE AND COACHING WAS BEYOND PATHETIC. It's not the punter's fault our O-Line lost their manhood and didn't believe in protecting ANY QB we stuck in there (I remarked this past season you could have Roger Staubach with that line and STILL never get an offense going). It's not the punter's fault that we placed Tavoy Moore, a speedback, in power-running situations when we had Wes Howard for that. It wasn't the punter's fault that our playcalling was abhorrent, nor was it the punter's fault for LOSING 60-70% OF ENTIRE RECRUITING CLASSES EVERY YEAR FOR 4 F***ING YEARS. And it wasn't the punter's fault that the offense constantly shut down in the red zone. Get a CLUE!!!

Idealism must be tempered with realism to create the greatest weapons in our quest for empire; faith must be combined with reason. I thought 4 years of Zamberlin had proven this. Sure Kramer has won at MSU and Eastern and I am glad to have him. But I will not repeat old mistakes, and I will not fall into that trap of marching onward into new eras without taking a good look at things.

Super, I think you are watching "Braveheart" one too many times. Although that is one of my favorite movies. Maybe you are drinking too many energy drinks? Either way I will refrain from saying what I was going to say to you because I believe that you can have diaherra of the mouth at times.

Read what I said once more and if it doesn't make sense then so be it.

Will I believe someone who is tried and true in their coaching, play calling and winning record in the BSC? You better believe it. He will do what is right for the team.

Super, keep doing what you are doing and let all that pinned up energy loose on game days!

 

[clawsout]

i've met Kramer and talked to him then for a period of time.......and i have listened to him speak twice at functions.....i'm with Roar on this one....AND as Roar said superfan...we NEED your enthusiasm on game day for sure...and i will be standing right next to you!....

 

[isusuperfan]

On the energy drinks, haven't had any in a good 3 years. I've read your posts over and over. I still do not like the fact you're dogging on the punter. Quit being blinded by the prospects of super fast football; you need all three phases of the game to win, not just the offense with a bunch of sprinters. And go ahead and say what you were going to say.

Where do you get the notion I've been watching Braveheart one too many times?

I stand by the notions that idealism in sports must be tempered by reality. That's why I'm not letting myself being swept up and blown away by this. I like Kramer and I know he will do great things but I'm not going to blindly follow the phenomenon. That happened 4 years ago and it took me 3 years to accept that Zamberlin was a bad thing for ISU Football.

 

[bnglgrl13]

Could someone please explain to me why they offer kids scholarships that are going on missions? Does it count against our scholarships? I've heard they go on "hold"....what does that mean??? Is the school obligated to honor the scholarship if the kid comes back and is out of shape? It just doesn't seem logical to me.
Thanks..........

 

[k toww]

if idealism is to be tempered with reality you need to realize that a punter is only one player. a player who in the offense kramer plans to run should see the field very sparingly. while he plays a big role in special teams, so do the other 10 players on the punt team and the schemes they use. that is why having the qb punt at msu worked for kramer. he kept return teams and defenses on their heels. i think there is a lot more that goes into a good punt team than just how far a punter can boot the ball. maybe oregon has lost 6 out of 8 bowl games, but they've made it to two bcs games in the last two years. i think most bengal fans would be happy with a trip to the post season regardless if we win or lose.

i understand why superfan wants to be cautious before putting all his chips in for kramer and i have some of the same reservations too. i was on the same boat as you when z came to town. i just think before we rush to judgement about a decision the coach did or didn't make, we should let it play out on the field. he is our guy and all we can do is be supportive and hope for the best.

@bnglgrl i don't think the scholarships will count against the bengals until those young men return from their missions. basically kramer promised them a spot on the team and a scholarship when they get back.

 

[Skippy]

Could someone please explain to me why they offer kids scholarships that are going on missions? Does it count against our scholarships? I've heard they go on "hold"....what does that mean??? Is the school obligated to honor the scholarship if the kid comes back and is out of shape? It just doesn't seem logical to me.
Thanks..........

Returning missionaries are re-recruitable -- meaning, they can sign again with anybody when they return from their missions without penalty. Getting them to sign an LOI before they leave on their mission is simply a good-will gesture. You are telling them you want them when they come back. There are no guarantees, however. (See the Whimpey brothers, who signed with Utah State when they came back from their missions.) Nor are there obligations to the returning player -- Logan Kinghorn originally signed with Boise State, but when he came back from his mission, the Broncos had changed coaches and they no longer had a scholarship for Logan, who wound up at ISU.