Great Season - Best Of Luck to ISU

[hiline1961]

Hi, I'm a Griz fan but wanted to congratulate ISU on their great season.

I think Coach Kramer and ISU are class acts.

That being said, I watched the ISU-Cal Poly video stream - UM lost to EWU. During the stream the announcer smuggishly said "the Griz will be sitting at home during November". Well, to that fool, all I have to say is karma is a b**ch.

Who's sitting at home now!! Go Griz!!!

 

[hiline1961]

And, I think it sucks that more Big Sky teams didn't make the post season. ISU deserved a shot considering ISU had a better record than some of the teams that were selected.

 

[PBP]

Hi, I'm a Griz fan but wanted to congratulate ISU on their great season.

I think Coach Kramer and ISU are class acts.

That being said, I watched the ISU-Cal Poly video stream - UM lost to EWU. During the stream the announcer smuggishly said "the Griz will be sitting at home during November". Well, to that fool, all I have to say is karma is a b**ch.

Who's sitting at home now!! Go Griz!!!

Hiline 1961:

I'm the "fool" who said it. All I'll say in response to you (and I'm being objective here, I work for ISU but have obligations to the broadcast audience as well) is that Montana has one quality win... the same as ISU.

As my partner said and I'm paraphrasing here, "you never count out Montana because of their reputation..."

You also can't count them out because they offer a guarantee of 300-400 hundred thousand dollars to the NCAA for a home playoff game.

My late father also had a saying, "money talks and (you know what) walks..."

If you heard any of the broadcasts' the past few weeks you also heard me say that now Montana has to be considered to go even without a quality win, (until yesterday), because of circumstances elsewhere in the FCS and because of who they are and the money they bring in. I called it politics which is a part of football the same as it is in everyday life.

Good luck in the post season but you and I know this is far from one of the better Montana teams in the last 20 years. Remove the team names and compare schedules and you'd pick ISU has having a more impressive resume every time.

PBP

 

[Sniper]

I watched the recording of your game last night. The Griz looked dominant, but Bleskin sh!# the bed and rolled around in it.

Next year I think we have the Griz, Eastern, and Montana State all at home... and we'll have a chip on our shoulder. Should be a great season.

 

[hiline1961]

I watched the recording of your game last night. The Griz looked dominant, but Bleskin sh!# the bed and rolled around in it.

Next year I think we have the Griz, Eastern, and Montana State all at home... and we'll have a chip on our shoulder. Should be a great season.

You hit on the rub - I long for the day when all teams had to play each other in a conference! I thought NAU had a weak schedule and they almost made it post season - until they became unraveled the last two games.

Not sure how the Griz will be next year but I agree it will be a great season.

To PBP:

You still sound smuggish - now you're claiming the Griz only made it because we have the best fans in the nation? Yes, we are the best fans in the country but that's not why we made the post season!!! The Griz dominated the Cats - the Cats beat ISU. Makes the selection committees job easy!!!

Like I said, I respect Coach Kramer and ISU. But, there is no way that ISU beats the Griz this year! No way in hell. If you have such an obligation to ISU and the fans you should start with acknowledging reality!!

I'm uncertain about the Griz next year as we will be in transition with a new coach!

Still, I have faith in the Griz. So much that I'm willing to bet a drink on next years game!!! If ISU wins I will buy you your Red's Apple Ale with the umbrella toothpick. If the Griz win you can buy me a shot of Tito's vodka. I'm hiline1961 here as well as EGriz and BobcatNation so I won't be hard to find.

I really do like Coach Kramer! But, I like it even more when the Griz beat his teams!! Go Griz!! And, best of luck to ISU!!

By the way, I don't think EWU relishes having to face the Griz again!!! GO GRIZ!!!!

 

[PBP]

Hiline:

Montana has great fans, the reality is also that when in doubt you follow the first rule in life..."follow the money..."

Montana went 8-4 overall, lost to a bad FBS school (Wyoming) and went 6-2 in conference play with one quality win (Montana State). ISU went 8-4, lost to a pair of FBS schools that are both going to a bowl game, and went 6-2 in conference play (both losses by eight points combined on the road) with one quality win (Cal Poly).

I'm saying that if you think the NCAA didn't factor in Montana's bid to host a first round game (reported to be in the 300-400 hundred thousand dollar range) compared to ISU's or anyone else's you are being extremely naïve. No other FCS school in the country can match the money submitted by Montana and Montana State.

When those schools are "borderline" entries (as UM was this year) that makes a major difference.

That's reality, not sour grapes...just facts. It's a business after all.

Also on a personal note I didn't go to ISU or any school in the Big Sky. I went to college at an SEC school so I'm looking at this situation pretty objectively (given that I did help broadcast ISU football for the first time this year)

PBP

 

[Skippy]

Hiline thanks for the kind words but I have to add one thing: when I REALLY want to irritate myself, I go to egrizz and sample true smugness. Nothing any of the other programs do is ever worthy of acknowledgement by Montana fans. No other program ever does anything right. And the Big Sky Conference might as well be the Third Reich to Montana fans, because it is pure evil and never up to your high standards.
I get really tired of Griz fans moaning about the unbalanced football schedule. It only exists because the league presidents and commissioners were tired of being held hostage by the Montana schools' threats to move up to FBS and added "backup schools." We here in Pocatello have had lousy conference schedules ever since the expansion as well. (The Montana schools and Weber are the only ones who bring any fans on the road and we haven't hosted either Montana school for three years). But you don't hear near the bellyaching from ISU fans as you do Grizz fans.
Look we all know you yearn to run away to the Mountain West (you and Idaho fans, who are utterly conviced the MWC schools are their "peer" institutions), but spare the rest of us the superiority act. We already have to put up with Boise State fans, that's enough fatuousness for all of us.

 

[SLCBengal]

Love our Skippy! ray:

 

[hiline1961]

Hiline thanks for the kind words but I have to add one thing: when I REALLY want to irritate myself, I go to egrizz and sample true smugness. Nothing any of the other programs do is ever worthy of acknowledgement by Montana fans. No other program ever does anything right. And the Big Sky Conference might as well be the Third Reich to Montana fans, because it is pure evil and never up to your high standards.
I get really tired of Griz fans moaning about the unbalanced football schedule. It only exists because the league presidents and commissioners were tired of being held hostage by the Montana schools' threats to move up to FBS and added "backup schools." We here in Pocatello have had lousy conference schedules ever since the expansion as well. (The Montana schools and Weber are the only ones who bring any fans on the road and we haven't hosted either Montana school for three years). But you don't hear near the bellyaching from ISU fans as you do Grizz fans.
Look we all know you yearn to run away to the Mountain West (you and Idaho fans, who are utterly conviced the MWC schools are their "peer" institutions), but spare the rest of us the superiority act. We already have to put up with Boise State fans, that's enough fatuousness for all of us.

Wow, jealous much?!! I said I wished all teams had to play each other so that we didn't have the current situation where ISU sits home.

Congrats to Coach Kramer and ISU for their great season. But, don't knock the Griz!! The right team went post season - FACT!!!

To be fair, I posted a link to this thread on EGriz. Here is a link to the thread on EGriz.

http://www.egriz.com/grizboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68518" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like I said earlier, I'm willing to bet a shot on next years game. PBP isn't willing to put his money where his mouth is. You want to pick up the slack, Skippy, just let me know!

 

[Skippy]

Hiline if you're going to use the transitive property to determine who the better team is, just use the Cal Poly results. Idaho State is 22 points better than Montana in that comparative result. But frankly, I am not complaining about Idaho State being left out if the playoffs. I felt all along they had to beat MSU to get in, and unfortunately they came up five points short.
As to "jealousy," I do admire the programs both UM and MSU have built and I respect the success they've had. Just as I respect the incredible job Boise State has done in building an MWC powerhouse. What I get tired of is the constant complaining that the Mountain West isn't good enough for the Broncos. Just like the Big Sky isn't good enough for a lot of Montana fans.
PS: because PBP and I both work as contact employees for ISU, we are not allowed to bet on games. I will root for all three Big Sky teams in the playoffs. Their success would be good for the entire league.

 

[hiline1961]

Hiline if you're going to use the transitive property to determine who the better team is, just use the Cal Poly results. Idaho State is 22 points better than Montana in that comparative result. But frankly, I am not complaining about Idaho State being left out if the playoffs. I felt all along they had to beat MSU to get in, and unfortunately they came up five points short.
As to "jealousy," I do admire the programs both UM and MSU have built and I respect the success they've had. Just as I respect the incredible job Boise State has done in building an MWC powerhouse. What I get tired of is the constant complaining that the Mountain West isn't good enough for the Broncos. Just like the Big Sky isn't good enough for a lot of Montana fans.
PS: because PBP and I both work as contact employees for ISU, we are not allowed to bet on games. I will root for all three Big Sky teams in the playoffs. Their success would be good for the entire league.

I guess I'm out of date because I don't want the Griz to move to the Mountain West and don't get the controversy. Could care less about the Mountain West! I love the Big Sky and want to remain in the Big Sky.

My point was simple: PBP made a ill-advised comment and I called him out on it. The best team made it to the playoffs! Ask EWU who'd they'd rather play. Plain and simple!!!!

Regarding the bet - I understand! My parents didn't let me drink when I was underage either!

Congrats ISU on your great year!! And, I look forward to playing next year!

 

[PBP]

That's an interesting question.

Given that Eastern had to fight tooth and nail to beat ISU while basically controlling the Montana game beating them by 10 and given ISU's offensive firepower compared to the Griz' I suspect the answer might not be to your liking.

We'll find out soon enough.

PBP

 

[spudbowl]

I have no doubt that ISU would had beaten Montana in Pocatello this year. I am not sure what would have happened if the game was in Missoula.

 

[tuffgong]

I know the 2015 schedule isn't released, but can anyone tell me who we have home games and away games with? Is BSU next year with Colorado the following year?

 

[bengalcub]

Boise State on the road
Hearing rumors that ISU will play UNLV on the road to replace BYU on October 17. That would fall between Eastern Washington and Sac State.

Home Portland State
Away Cal Poly
Away North Dakota
Home EWU
Away Sac State
Home Montana
Home Montana State
Road Weber State

So far 4 home game scheduled and 6 road games scheduled. UNLV game is not final yet and non conference home game has yet to be announced.

 

[mvem]

You also can't count them out because they offer a guarantee of 300-400 hundred thousand dollars to the NCAA for a home playoff game.

My late father also had a saying, "money talks and (you know what) walks..."

If you heard any of the broadcasts' the past few weeks you also heard me say that now Montana has to be considered to go even without a quality win, (until yesterday), because of circumstances elsewhere in the FCS and because of who they are and the money they bring in. I called it politics which is a part of football the same as it is in everyday life.

Montana has great fans, the reality is also that when in doubt you follow the first rule in life..."follow the money..."

Montana went 8-4 overall, lost to a bad FBS school (Wyoming) and went 6-2 in conference play with one quality win (Montana State). ISU went 8-4, lost to a pair of FBS schools that are both going to a bowl game, and went 6-2 in conference play (both losses by eight points combined on the road) with one quality win (Cal Poly).

I'm saying that if you think the NCAA didn't factor in Montana's bid to host a first round game (reported to be in the 300-400 hundred thousand dollar range) compared to ISU's or anyone else's you are being extremely naïve. No other FCS school in the country can match the money submitted by Montana and Montana State.

When those schools are "borderline" entries (as UM was this year) that makes a major difference.

That's reality, not sour grapes...just facts. It's a business after all.

Also on a personal note I didn't go to ISU or any school in the Big Sky. I went to college at an SEC school so I'm looking at this situation pretty objectively (given that I did help broadcast ISU football for the first time this year)

Sorry, but all of this is just silliness…


You effectively accuse the NCAA of corruption in the selection process without proof. You do know that the committee is made up entirely of school athletic department officials & not NCAA officials, right? Your "facts" are nothing but conspiracy theories. You also say Montana's bid was a factor in their selection, but from everything I've read the bids are not even discussed for until after the selections are made. Jeff Tingey is on the committee. Are you accusing him of effectively being corrupt on this issue and going for the money instead of just helping to select the best teams?


You also argue ISU's resume is better. The Cal Poly common game is in their favor but…

1. Montana had 7 DI wins, ISU had 6. The selection criteria specifically mentions that factor still, I believe.
2. Montana just blew out the MSU team ISU lost to last week (with the same QB playing).
3. Montana played two Missouri Valley teams out of conference (the MVFC is the best conference, of course).
4. Montana was the only FCS team to beat an MVFC team out of conference.
5. Montana was the only team to play NDSU tough in Fargo.

Also, given all the playoff hopefuls that blew it the past couple weeks, it's highly unlikely that the Griz were even on the bubble. I'm sure Indiana State & Montana State were considered below them, I'm guessing Stephen F. Austin was, and there's a good chance EKU and Richmond were as well.

 

[Potomac Griz1]

1. Montana had 7 DI wins, ISU had 6. The selection criteria specifically mentions that factor still, I believe.

This is what killed ISU in my opinion. Unfortunately ISU basically scheduled themselves right out of the playoffs by scheduling 2 FBS teams AND 2 lower division teams. That didn't leave much room for error when it came to the other games. The committee looks at D1 wins especially and since ISU had 6 only, while Indiana State had 7...well... ISU got left out. I was pulling for you guys getting in. I would love to see what you could do in the playoffs under Kramer, but that schedule...ouch.

Cant be mad at the committee (which mvem pointed out is made up of department officials from the FCS schools). I'd be more angry at whoever decided it was a good idea to schedule 2 lower division teams. I hate it when the Griz play a lower division team, but 2? I'd be fuming, especially if they missed the playoffs due to only having 6 D1 wins.

Also wanted to say Congrats on the great season to ISU! Kramer is really turning your program around. He's a hell of a coach. I was hoping he'd get some revenge when you guys played the Cats in Bozeman

 

[Skippy]

1. Montana had 7 DI wins, ISU had 6. The selection criteria specifically mentions that factor still, I believe.

This is what killed ISU in my opinion. Unfortunately ISU basically scheduled themselves right out of the playoffs by scheduling 2 FBS teams AND 2 lower division teams. That didn't leave much room for error when it came to the other games. The committee looks at D1 wins especially and since ISU had 6 only, while Indiana State had 7...well... ISU got left out. I was pulling for you guys getting in. I would love to see what you could do in the playoffs under Kramer, but that schedule...ouch.

Cant be mad at the committee (which mvem pointed out is made up of department officials from the FCS schools). I'd be more angry at whoever decided it was a good idea to schedule 2 lower division teams. I hate it when the Griz play a lower division team, but 2? I'd be fuming, especially if they missed the playoffs due to only having 6 D1 wins.

Also wanted to say Congrats on the great season to ISU! Kramer is really turning your program around. He's a hell of a coach. I was hoping he'd get some revenge when you guys played the Cats in Bozeman

There's no question playing two D-2 games hurt ISU's chances -- in fact, that was probably the deciding factor. But I can't second-guess that decision. Very few people were looking at this ISU team as a playoff contender when this schedule was made. The idea behind scheduling two D-2 teams is: 1) Getting a sixth home game; and 2) Getting another winnable game on the schedule, which is critical when you are rebuilding. Another thing to keep in mind is that it's not easy to find another FCS opponent to come to Pocatello, Idaho. Any team that is willing to come is certainly going to want a return trip to their place, so you are going to have only 5 home games when you return the home game. (Nor is there any guarantee you're going to beat them if you can get them to come to Pocatello.)

Having said all that, as I noted above scheduling is always going to be an obstacle for ISU to get into the playoffs as long as the department's financial situation requires us to play two money games a year -- particularly in years when we can only play 11 games. And ISU is not alone in that regard -- Weber State, Portland State, UNC, they've all played two money games a year for several years now. It is the reality of the financial situation we are all in.

Finally, I'm just not buying the argument that Montana was an "easy selection" over Idaho State. The Bengals gave EWU a better game than the Griz did, and ISU beat a Cal Poly team that easily dispatched Montana. ISU's only FCS loses were by 3 points and 5 points to ranked teams. Sure, the Griz dominated Montana State a week after ISU lost by 5 to the Bobcats, but that is just one data point. It certainly did not surprise me that Montana was picked over the Bengals, but the idea that it was a "no brainer" is just not supported by fact.

An addendum: the Simple Rating System that is supposed to be used as a tool by the selection committee ranked Idaho State 19, Montana 20 and MSU 29. Again, not surprised the committee held ISU's two D-2 games against them, but ISU certainly could make a case it belonged in the playoff field. http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/writers/infcshuddle/archive/haley_11_23_2014b.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PBP]

MVEN:

First off thanks for taking the time to compare schedules. Your comments are very persuasive in that regard. The only thing I'd disagree with is the contention that the Missouri Valley is the best FCS conference. I don't automatically agree with that, I think the Big Sky is as good, but that's just my opinion.

I don't know if I ever said ISU's schedule was better, that could be inferred I guess, but I thought it was comparable to Montana's especially with the fact that both schools had in my judgment, one quality win each.

The main difference obviously was the lack of a seventh FBS / FCS win, no question about that....that plus, as my partner on the broadcasts pointed out, "reputation" among the weekly poll voters.

Personally I think you could make a strong case that four teams from the Big Sky deserved to go especially when you look at some of the other choices like Sam Houston and S.F. Austin...as has been pointed out.

Regarding the other areas you got into to, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. Money makes the world go round....that's the way it is and that has a practical impact on everything in my opinion.

Brad, thanks for pointing out the ratings system numbers.

PBP

 

[Potomac Griz1]

Finally, I'm just not buying the argument that Montana was an "easy selection" over Idaho State. The Bengals gave EWU a better game than the Griz did, and ISU beat a Cal Poly team that easily dispatched Montana. ISU's only FCS loses were by 3 points and 5 points to ranked teams. Sure, the Griz dominated Montana State a week after ISU lost by 5 to the Bobcats, but that is just one data point. It certainly did not surprise me that Montana was picked over the Bengals, but the idea that it was a "no brainer" is just not supported by fact.

I'm not sure who said it was an "easy selection" and a "no brainer"... I didn't say any of that. My post wasn't about Montana... it was was just pointing out that ISU's own schedule (the 2 lower division teams especially) was their downfall in terms of whether they got into the playoffs or not.

Also the SRS rating system is just one thing that the selection committee uses, much like RPI in the NCAA Basketball tournament. Sometimes teams that look like they should get in get left out due to conference champions taking their spot (who are much lower in RPI or SRS) or other factors like head to head competition, not enough D1 wins, etc.

As Northern Iowa's athletic director (I think it was him anyway) said in a video when discussing the criteria of getting into the playoffs, the number of D1 wins plays a huge factor. With a 12 game schedule 7 D1 wins is an absolute must...8 of course is better. Yeah, 6 is the cutoff but 6 is not likely going to get a team in. The Griz got left out in 2010 because of having only 6 D1 wins.

ISU was one of the bubble teams that was on the edge of getting in as was MSU. It likely came down to D1 wins and the head to head game if the two teams were being compared.

That said, one could still make a VERY good argument that ISU should be in over some of the teams who did get in. ISU has a very good argument for getting in over say... Stephen F. Austin. They were 7-4 (d1) with an SRS of 32 in a fairly weak (minus one team) Southland conference. You could also make a strong argument for ISU getting in over Sam Houston State, who played a D2 team and got absolutely STOMPED by them... They lost 47-21 to Colorado State-Pueblo. It was 47-7 late in the 4th quarter before SHSU got 2 TDs in garbage time. I agree with PBP that those two teams could have easily been replaced by ISU.

Personally I would have had ISU in the playoffs....but I'm a bit biased towards Big Sky teams. I just figured ISU would be left out because of the 2 lower division teams on the schedule giving them only 6 D1 wins.

Also, given all the playoff hopefuls that blew it the past couple weeks, it's highly unlikely that the Griz were even on the bubble. I'm sure Indiana State & Montana State were considered below them, I'm guessing Stephen F. Austin was, and there's a good chance EKU and Richmond were as well.

From what was said on the selection show here were 7 of the "bubble" teams. Three of them got in, four were left out. You are right, it doesn't look like the Griz were a bubble team. The Cats and ISU were. ISU probably should have gotten in over Stephen F. Austin the more I look at things... the 6 d1 win thing killed 'em though

In:
Indiana State (7-5, 4-4 in the MVFC)
Montana State (8-4, 6-2 in the Big Sky)
Stephen F. Austin (8-4, 5-3 in the Southland)

Out:
Bethune-Cookman (9-3, 6-2 in the MEAC)
Idaho State (8-4, 6-2 in the Big Sky)
William & Mary (7-5, 4-4 in the CAA)
Youngstown State (7-5, 4-4 in the MVFC)