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How good are Montana\'s players, coaches comparably---really?

5

5thAvenueVik

Active member
We know we are playing at their house. But how good are their players compared with our own? Did they get a lot of I-A transfer players in? Is that why their fans are so confident? How would you rate the two sets of player personnel (PSU vs. UMT) side-by-side?

After that, how good is Bobby Hauck and staff? For I-AA, they must be good and the fact that he was in the running for the Stanford head coach's job. Then, again, how good are our coaching legends and staff. I would think really good.

How much will our team be along in terms of development come Game 9 in Missoula?

Lastly, if Montana wants to make their program "Transfer U." i.e. to make their program the primier destination for I-A transfers to I-AA, why don't we simply do the very same thing and outclass them at it? That pipeline represents very serious punctuation of transfer recruiting, and Montana certainly has no exclusive or majority rights to it (though some of their fans may irrationally and erroneously assume they do). But they must have a good transfer facilitation system within their athletic department.
 
While I definitely think we would win the transfer acquisition battle, that's not the route I want to go. Portland vs. Missoula is an easy sell to most college kids, so we'd win hands down if we wanted to.

The issue, is that once we move up, we can no longer get transfers that can play immediatedly. Transfers from FBS schools who drop down to FCS schools do not have to wait a year to play, but can play immediately (ex. Brian White). I would rather see Jerry and Mouse focus on high school recruiting, so that when we do move up, its not a shock to the system.
 
I haven't done a comprehensive study or anything, but I think the issue of getting transfers from FBS schools is really overrated. How often do these players really turn out to be difference makers? We all get excited when we hear about them coming to our school, perhaps our excitement is warranted.

Off the top of my head, here is a list of PSU's best players over the last few years (meaning players who received All-American mention of saw time in the the pros). How many of them were transfers?
R. Floyd
C. Dunn
J. Blanchard
O. Bryant
T. Charles
A. Hayward - Transfer from CSU
T. Kirkland - Transfer from UNLV
B. Carvalho
A. Kennett
B. Ferrigno
A. Narcisse

My memory isn't that great and I'm focusing more on skill position guys, but it seems like JG and Mouse are better off focusing on high school recruiting to get top talent. Please suggest other players to add to the list for the sake of discussion. I acknowledge the limits of my methodology and will happily admit if I'm wrong.
 
I curse you. Curse you all. You owe me.

You made me go through the entire Montana roster.

Montana's current roster has 11 transfers (one of which is a JC transfer). Two are slated to start. 5 are not. Of 4 others, 3 may be vying for the 2 CB slots. I'm not sure Levi Horn (transfer from Oregon) is really in the mix on the O-Line. The O-Line has one returning All American and possibly one other candidate.

Since Rhett Bomar is not on the roster, well, I don't know what to think. They get key skill position players back otherwise... but are young at TE. Do they go three receivers or with fullback most of the time?

The defense returns three key people in the trenches and at linebacker... and their safeties seem set. Corner is the obvious transfer focus. Modest amount of turnover on defense overall, not too much.

I tend to argue that the best line Oregon's had in Eugene consisted mostly of "downstate" gentlemen, farmboys or (perhaps more important) ranch hands. Many times, the urban talent out west is overrated. For that matter, how many times do you see the kids in the smaller towns succeed in the SEC, not just at Montana, not just in the Midwest? Another example: Boise's real NFL prospects (and now players, even) are their offensive lineman. For every top prospect like Rialto CA's Ryan Clady, you have current Green Bay Packer Darryn Colledge, native of North Pole, Alaska. Sometimes, it's where you fish.

BTW... besides the transfers I mentioned, of the players listed as either starters or in a battle to start (including kicking game) 15 are from in state and 9 are from out of state. That probably doesn't include the tight ends, as I wasn't wasting time to make a depth chart.
 
I was gonna tell you guys but Marty already got it. For every transfer that came over the years from larger schools, I would say 1 in 4 or 5 actually help us out. One year this 330 pound linemen from Arizona transfered and quit after a day or two because he could not move his feet and was not going to start. We all saw recently that Tarver wasn't up to par either. This happens alot with transfers.

I agree that Glanville should focus on recruiting his own HS players but as long as we are FCS(1aa) we have to compete for those transfers because that 1 of 5 can be a Brian White, Adam Hayward, Tremayne Kirkland, or Chuck Jones. And allowing them to go to Montana or another Big Sky rival can hurt the program.
 
As for Montana their fans are confident because they have won or shared the last 9 conference championships and the most important game of their season is at home. They will be tough to beat, they have a great running back and an offense that is very hard to defend against. As a fan I hope PSU can pull it out in Missoula but since joining the Big Sky PSU has not won there. I don't see why that will change this year but I pray it does.

That game will truly show how far Glanville and Mouse have brought the VIkings

GO VIKS
 
ExVik92 said:
I was gonna tell you guys but Marty already got it. For every transfer that came over the years from larger schools, I would say 1 in 4 or 5 actually help us out. One year this 330 pound linemen from Arizona transfered and quit after a day or two because he could not move his feet and was not going to start. We all saw recently that Tarver wasn't up to par either. This happens alot with transfers.

I agree that Glanville should focus on recruiting his own HS players but as long as we are FCS(1aa) we have to compete for those transfers because that 1 of 5 can be a Brian White, Adam Hayward, Tremayne Kirkland, or Chuck Jones. And allowing them to go to Montana or another Big Sky rival can hurt the program.
Click to expand...

I have to admit, there is value in recruiting transfers simply to keep them from conference rivals.
 
Bodiford was originally recruited by PSU but I believe due to grades was forced to Attend Butte Junior college outside of Chico and transfered back after 2 seasons. So no he was not a 1A transfer, he was JC, other JCs of note over recent years were Chris Berg, George Quiano, Allen Kennet, Antonio Narcisse, Adrian Limberick, Josh Ratliff, Charles Manigo, and Im sure there are others.

I also came to PSU through a JC, it was a major staple of the Walsh recruiting strategy.
 
Montana fans are confident this year because have th most returning seniors they have had in years, have the deepest O-line (maybe ever), Lex Hillard is back this year, and with the possible exception of QB are arguably stronger in every position this year than last years team that lost a semi-final game 19-17.

Add in a mediocre pre-conference schedule, 4 BSC coaches who are in their first year, and 2 in their 2nd year, and Portland State at home and things look very good to Griz fans.

really the transfers don't play into it much at all, we are looking forward to teh kids who have been here 3 or 4 years having their best year.
 
grizbeer said:
Montana fans are confident this year because have th most returning seniors they have had in years, have the deepest O-line (maybe ever), Lex Hillard is back this year, and with the possible exception of QB are arguably stronger in every position this year than last years team that lost a semi-final game 19-17.

Add in a mediocre pre-conference schedule, 4 BSC coaches who are in their first year, and 2 in their 2nd year, and Portland State at home and things look very good to Griz fans.

really the transfers don't play into it much at all, we are looking forward to teh kids who have been here 3 or 4 years having their best year.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly from last year PSU D-line tore apart Montana's O-line. I would love to see where some of their O-line stats (rushing, sacks allowed, etc.) rank among the big sky last year. It has always been their skill positions to carry them and make the big plays. I might be wrong but I don't remember being impressed last year.
 
bigvik said:
It has always been their skill positions to carry them and make the big plays.
Click to expand...

That was arguably true last year, but to say that is "always" the case for Montana is just ludicrous. The Griz have always built around the O-Line since Don Read came in 1986. The offensive line is the #1 key for consistent offensive success & Montana's record over the last 21 years is largely a testament to the quality of those offensive linemen.

Also, the majority of UM's NFL draftees/signees over the last 2 decades have been offensive linemen (Kirk Scrafford, Scott Gragg, Scott Curry, Dylan McFarland, etc.)
 
bigvik said:
grizbeer said:
Montana fans are confident this year because have th most returning seniors they have had in years, have the deepest O-line (maybe ever), Lex Hillard is back this year, and with the possible exception of QB are arguably stronger in every position this year than last years team that lost a semi-final game 19-17.

Add in a mediocre pre-conference schedule, 4 BSC coaches who are in their first year, and 2 in their 2nd year, and Portland State at home and things look very good to Griz fans.

really the transfers don't play into it much at all, we are looking forward to teh kids who have been here 3 or 4 years having their best year.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly from last year PSU D-line tore apart Montana's O-line. I would love to see where some of their O-line stats (rushing, sacks allowed, etc.) rank among the big sky last year. It has always been their skill positions to carry them and make the big plays. I might be wrong but I don't remember being impressed last year.
Click to expand...

If you look at the stats from the game last year they don't really support your contention - Montana rushed for 189 yards, with a 4.9 yd/rush average, and was sacked only 1 time - and one of the big knocks on Swogger is he held the ball too long at times.

Montana lead the BSC in rushing yards per game last year, despite not having Hillard, although the Griz ranked at the bottom in sacks allowed and sacks per pass attempt.

We will see how things work out this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/byteam?cat1=offense&cat2=Rushing&conference=I-AA_BSKY&year=2006&sort=529
 
grizbeer said:
bigvik said:
grizbeer said:
Montana fans are confident this year because have th most returning seniors they have had in years, have the deepest O-line (maybe ever), Lex Hillard is back this year, and with the possible exception of QB are arguably stronger in every position this year than last years team that lost a semi-final game 19-17.

Add in a mediocre pre-conference schedule, 4 BSC coaches who are in their first year, and 2 in their 2nd year, and Portland State at home and things look very good to Griz fans.

really the transfers don't play into it much at all, we are looking forward to teh kids who have been here 3 or 4 years having their best year.
Click to expand...

If I remember correctly from last year PSU D-line tore apart Montana's O-line. I would love to see where some of their O-line stats (rushing, sacks allowed, etc.) rank among the big sky last year. It has always been their skill positions to carry them and make the big plays. I might be wrong but I don't remember being impressed last year.
Click to expand...

If you look at the stats from the game last year they don't really support your contention - Montana rushed for 189 yards, with a 4.9 yd/rush average, and was sacked only 1 time - and one of the big knocks on Swogger is he held the ball too long at times.

Montana lead the BSC in rushing yards per game last year, despite not having Hillard, although the Griz ranked at the bottom in sacks allowed and sacks per pass attempt.

We will see how things work out this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/byteam?cat1=offense&cat2=Rushing&conference=I-AA_BSKY&year=2006&sort=529
Click to expand...

The rushing stats are a little misleading from the game last year with regards to UM rushing. Bradshaw had that one 30+ yard gain, but other than that PSU really shut down the UM rush. Swogger holding the ball a little long may have actually been a blessing for you guys since between our coverage and his speading the field by holding the ball allowed him to scramble for a lot of yards at a critical point in the 4th quarter. That 38 yard rumble by Swogger was pretty much the dagger in the heart.

Great defensive game to watch last year...
 
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