Incoming

[DeeScott]

I'm a long-time basketball fan and recent Weber State fan since my employment brought me to Utah 7 years ago. I've coached HS ball, overseas, and worked with college and pro players individually. I've traveled the AAU circuit for many years, and I've seen some highly rated guys go bust, while underrated guys rise up in college and pros. The problem with the ESPN and other rating systems out there are that they don't catch every kid, or don't see them enough to make an accurate rating. Famous mess-ups by the rating systems are many, but perhaps highest profile are Steph Curry, Damian Lillard. Joel Bolomboy blossomed and developed late, so he was also underrated. There are many like them, and we have four coming in. Looking at our own roster, Brekkot Chapman was a 4-star and Jerrick Harding was a 2-star coming out of HS. The bottom line is that rating is an inexact science. Weber doesn't usually get the 4- and 5-star kid, that's just how it goes, so they have to develop kids. Why do some kids develop while others fade? System, coaching, heart, tenacity, desire, life...

Here's my point: there are 4 new guys coming in. Three of them are 2-star rated, one is a 3-star (Barnes). I've watched video of Barnes and he's great. I watched Riley Court on the AAU circuit and he scored and defended very well against 4- and 5-star guys, including Jalen Brunson and Miles Bridges, who both played for Mac Irvin Fire (Chicago). I watched Spencer Johnson play against Houston Hoops AAU, who had Jarryd Vanderbilt and De'Aaron Fox. Spencer scored 25 in a direct matchup with Fox, who is now a starting point guard in the NBA. Fox's team won in a close game, but Spencer defended Fox incredibly well. I watched Kupsas play against Compton Magic with several 4-star players and he scored and defended amazingly. I didn't see Tim Fuller much but he is a high-motor, high-skill guy, something that Weber really uses well in their system.

Every team needs more than one reliable scorer to advance very far in any tournament, and several will rise up. Every program has its ups and downs, but Weber is rising, mark my words.

 

[UtahPirate]

Thanks Dee. I appreciate your unique voice having watched several of our incoming players. Tough finish, but I also think better days are around the corner.

 

[oldrunner]

:+1: :+1:

 

[oldrunner]

Here is the straight dope.

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2018/03/10/randy-rahe-coach-candidate-utep-colorado-state-contract-weber-state

All of the a$$Hats on the other thread will be totally butt hurt about now. :doh:

 

[thescout]

Highlight films mean very little...recruit ratings mean less the farther down you go...college interest/offers mean the most...never the less some kids are late bloomers, Crandall had zero D1 offers and not rated at all....major colleges more likely to roll the dice with a big kid in hope of getting lucky and pass on productive prospects who are a small for their position or not great athletes

 

[oldrunner]

I have heard several coaches say that you are a good recruiter if 20% of your guys work out. I know that it sounds harsh, but if one or two of your recruits, per year, make an impact, you are an excellent recruiter. That means over half of the guys you bring in will not be impact guys. They will either need a lot of development or they will wash out. At our level, we are hoping that guys will develop. It is still a hit and miss thing. However, even the high majors have their wash outs.

 

[DeeScott]

To "thescout":
I agree that highlight films show very little, that's why I said I saw them in person. So much you can't see from a highlight film, and so much you can't really know about a guy's heart and desire to get better and play in a way to make an impact.

To "oldrunner":
I have heard that same thing about 20% of recruits not working out. That's why it's such a big deal to evaluate guys and make sure they are who coach thinks they are, rather than rely on rating systems. Some of them will work out and Weber will be better for the ones who do.

 

[Webergrad02]

Here is the straight dope.

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2018/03/10/randy-rahe-coach-candidate-utep-colorado-state-contract-weber-state

All of the a$$Hats on the other thread will be totally butt hurt about now. :doh:

Oldrunner - You are better than name calling. I know that there is some differing opinions here and that is perfectly okay. but there is no need to result to name calling just because someone sees something differently than you.

 

[oldrunner]

More of a description. How do you describe something that passes crap every time it opens up? I've been that very thing in the past, about officials. None of us are perfect. It's a term of endearment to me. I wish that some of our posters would take a deeper look into themselves and what they are saying about players and coaches. Sure, my words may have been a little harsh. How else do I get the attention of someone who is stepping out of bounds when attacking individual coaches and players?

 

[Wildcat_Fan]

Players are only as good as their coach.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Like Dee and Scout have said, I'm pretty excited about this incoming class. I haven't been able to watch any of these recruits personally, but for me, like Scout, a good way to get an idea of how good a player is, is by his recruitment. The more schools that have shown interest in a recruit the better. Is that the best measure? Not always. Look at Harding. He wasn't heavily recruited, at least not that we could see and he has become our team leader. Whereas, we've had some busts who were highly recruited. Yet, the more offers a player has the better he "seems" to be. Of course, a lot depends on the player. He has to be a hard worker and needs a lot of help from the coaching staff, to develop. With what is returning and those players coming in, there can be some hope. I think we can also probably expect another signee this spring. Interested to see what happens and who possibly doesn't return.

My guess...
Starters:
Doc
Harding
Barnes
Chapman
Braxton

First off bench
John
Kozak
Kupsas
Court/Ary-Turner (one of these will be counselled out, purely my opinion)
Johnson
Spring Signee (guessing either a Euro, JC, 5th year Senior or automatic transfer)
Fuller/Vialen
(Yeah, we all know that Randy won't play an 11 man rotation, I'm hopeful to see a 9 man).

 

[WSUfan1]

More of a description. How do you describe something that passes crap every time it opens up? I've been that very thing in the past, about officials. None of us are perfect. It's a term of endearment to me. I wish that some of our posters would take a deeper look into themselves and what they are saying about players and coaches. Sure, my words may have been a little harsh. How else do I get the attention of someone who is stepping out of bounds when attacking individual coaches and players?

:blah: :blah: :lol: :lol:

 

[DeeScott]

talhad:

Picking next year's starters based on this year's performance might be fun on a fan board, but it doesn't take into account that we finished 4th in the Big Sky this year and need the team to look different next year. Your predictions could be right for the beginning of the year, but there will be new stars to rise up and take the scoring load off Harding. As I've said before, any team that wins titles and tournament games must have 3 or 4 guys scoring consistently each night. Look at Montana this year. We didn't have consistent scorers to complement Harding all year, and he carried too much of the load. So who will it be next year? John's back may not allow him to play at all, although I hope it will. Doc is a solid player but not a major scorer. Barnes may be one of the guys we need to take Richardson's spot. Johnson? Court? Both were big-time scorers in HS. Only time will tell, but let's remember that no one thought Harding would be who is when he came. One or two of our new guys will rise up to help with scoring, just you wait and see!

 

[n.ogdencat]

talhad:

Picking next year's starters based on this year's performance might be fun on a fan board, but it doesn't take into account that we finished 4th in the Big Sky this year and need the team to look different next year. Your predictions could be right for the beginning of the year, but there will be new stars to rise up and take the scoring load off Harding. As I've said before, any team that wins titles and tournament games must have 3 or 4 guys scoring consistently each night. Look at Montana this year. We didn't have consistent scorers to complement Harding all year, and he carried too much of the load. So who will it be next year? John's back may not allow him to play at all, although I hope it will. Doc is a solid player but not a major scorer. Barnes may be one of the guys we need to take Richardson's spot. Johnson? Court? Both were big-time scorers in HS. Only time will tell, but let's remember that no one thought Harding would be who is when he came. One or two of our new guys will rise up to help with scoring, just you wait and see!

Agreed...we never know until players hit the floor who is and isn't going to get mins. Yet, it is somewhat fun to hypothesize players roles.

 

[oldrunner]

talhad:

Picking next year's starters based on this year's performance might be fun on a fan board, but it doesn't take into account that we finished 4th in the Big Sky this year and need the team to look different next year. Your predictions could be right for the beginning of the year, but there will be new stars to rise up and take the scoring load off Harding. As I've said before, any team that wins titles and tournament games must have 3 or 4 guys scoring consistently each night. Look at Montana this year. We didn't have consistent scorers to complement Harding all year, and he carried too much of the load. So who will it be next year? John's back may not allow him to play at all, although I hope it will. Doc is a solid player but not a major scorer. Barnes may be one of the guys we need to take Richardson's spot. Johnson? Court? Both were big-time scorers in HS. Only time will tell, but let's remember that no one thought Harding would be who is when he came. One or two of our new guys will rise up to help with scoring, just you wait and see!

Agreed...we never know until players hit the floor who is and isn't going to get mins. Yet, it is somewhat fun to hypothesize players roles.

There is so much that can happen over the summer. The only observation I could add is that when we had both Harding and Nelson on the floor at the same time, other teams started to isolate and post them up. They are both quite athletic, but they are small. You could see other teams running plays to try and get them on the blocks with a bigger player. I think that they will run together from time to time, but not often. The good thing is that they both are fighters and hard workers, that helps.

 

[Wooly Wild]

Hi gents! I am back again, though I never really leave. I am always reading everyones posts and opinions. Please disregard any roomers that I was a spy for another forum! "Fake News"!

So... Jerrick turned out to be everything I hoped for and then some. What do y'all think about next season with Barnes, Kupsas and the returning missionaries? I had high hopes for Court and I am nervous we may seen the same from our two incoming return missionaries next fall.
One more thing... has anyone noticed that there still aren't any recruits listed in Verbal Commits for the 2019 school year? I don't think I have ever seen coach Rahe not have 3 years worth of recruits on the board? Thoughts?

 

[oldrunner]

has anyone noticed that there still aren't any recruits listed in Verbal Commits for the 2019 school year? I don't think I have ever seen coach Rahe not have 3 years worth of recruits on the board? Thoughts?

I have noticed that as well. IMHO, I think they do have lists of guys that they are watching and talking to. I just don't think they are ready to make any offers just yet, for a lot of reasons. Recruiting is very competitive and stealth can sometimes be an advantage. There is enough negative recruiting going on that not tipping your hand to your competitors is smart. Also, if you make an early offer and get an early commitment, you may have to pull your offer when you get a commitment from a better player. I believe that the offers will come late for the 2019 class.

 

[DeeScott]

To Incoming:

Since I'm the one who started this thread, I'll respond to your thoughts. I have watched returned missionaries for many years, and in the basketball world, a mission is often considered a "death knell" for a kid's professional prospects, and by association, his college prospects. But we have seen in the recent past, some guys come home to have a lot of success. Whatever any of you feel about BYU, I would say that Eric Mika's one year at BYU after his mission was a super success--he averaged 20 and 10 the year after he came home from Italy. Tyler Haws had a great career, including the year after he returned from the Philippines. Kyle Collinsworth also, although the current crop at BYU aren't so strong. David Collette at Utah State/Utah, etc. The two missionaries coming home this summer to Weber are Tim Fuller (Central America) and Spencer Johnson (Italy). No one can really predict how they'll come back, but in talking with my basketball friends around the state from all different HS and university programs, Spencer Johnson will come back ready to go. I haven't heard much about Fuller because I'm not as connected to Arizona coaches. I would say that being in a place where the food is plentiful, good, and safe is a real benefit to a kid, but so is his desire to stay in shape and maintain some level of basketball fitness. Only time will tell, but if I was a betting man, I'd say we are going to be great next year. If any of you watched Buffalo hammer Arizona last night, you can see that a team needs lots of players and scorers to make a run. Weber didn't have enough dialed in, consistent scorers this year. I'm telling you, the future is very bright for Weber with those who are here and those coming in. Jerrick is not the only star coming out of this group!

 

[DeeScott]

Okay, I'll just come out and say what I think. Next year's team will have more skill, more size, more ability than this year's team. How can you only go 7 deep and be a legitimate contender? You can't, because college basketball is physically taxing, and guys wear out.

Johnson and Barnes will be better than Richardson and Baker. Hopefully Court will come along.
Kupsas, Braxton, Vialen, and Chapman will be better than this year's effort.

Believe it!

 

[n.ogdencat]

Dee, I like your positive attitude and excitement about the incoming class. I too share your enthusiasm; however, from what you have said, you have a far clearer understanding of the talent joining the team. I would definitely call myself an amateur, when it comes to analysis. Yet, I do have a decent feel for evaluation, if I get the chance. Like UtahPirate routinely has said, he wears the purple tinted glasses or tends to drink the purple kool-aid, so do I (by the way UtahPirate you have been spot on with your recent posts, kings to you my friend). I'm a huge fan of Israel Barnes. I think he has an incredible amount of upside and can really play basketball. Also, I love the fact that he has played with Harding in the past and that the two were highly successful together. Personally, I feel that Barnes will be a starter next season. His biggest issue is his outside shooting, which can be developed and improved. He's got bounce, high basketball IQ and is a good rebounding guard.

The other three are all very interesting. I went to either a round ball or coaches luncheon a couple of years ago, and Coach said that Fuller, would have been able to contribute that Fall, but was supportive of him going on a mission. He said that Spencer Johnson had a "total" game and could do a number of things for the Cats. That he could play 3 positions for his squad. I feel that Fuller could be red shirted next year, if he needs to, but the nicest thing about both of these kids is that they are going to be home and have the entire summer to get back into shape. Fuller gets home in two or three weeks and Johnson gets home the first week of June. Court did not have that luxury. He got home a week or two before the school year started. Last, Kupsas... I really like this kid. I don't think we really appreciate the steal we got with this kids commitment. He had a lot of interest and offers. The kid prides himself on hard work, defense, and rebounding. Yet, he can score in a lot of ways. He can really spread the floor with his ability to hit from outside, drive, play with his back to the basket, and hit mid-range jumpers. He reminds me a lot of Bogdan Bliznyuk. He's just got game. From what I have watched of him, he's got great feet and excellent speed for a big man. He plays on a super competitive team with 5 other DI athletes and almost averaged a double double this past season. I really believe there will be another athlete added this Spring. I'm guessing a Euro kid, but I wouldn't doubt if we end up getting a transfer with 2 years left, I have a fews ideas. I really don't see Randy going to the JUCO ranks this year or picking up a graduate transfer, unless the kid has more than a year to play.

Final thought...I know we are talking about recruits coming in, but I feel that there are a couple of kids who are current freshmen that are in a position to develop and take that next, crucial and needed step. Kozak, if he has a good summer (he needs to work on his passing, hands, speed, and body) can come back and with his experience become a force in the Sky. I would love to see Randy play him in the post more and get him in a position where he can play with his back towards the basket. Doc needs to get stronger and get his speed back. He had some serious knee issues last year and that didn't help him much this season. He can get a lot quicker, which should scare the Big Sky. He needs to learn how to see the court better and not take off defensive possessions. Court, just needs to get his legs back. I'd have him in the pool and the weight room a lot this Summer. He needs to put on some muscle, but also, get quicker. Doing both of those things is very very hard to do. Vialen...gain weight and bulk up a bit. Work on his feet, hands, and speed. Defensive speed is the biggest issue with this class and they need to get quicker, but with experience and realizing the speed of the college game, will give this class the idea of what they need to work on.