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ISU Football Flag Design

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isusuperfan

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http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=278826&id=608932913&l=f154a0ecf6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey guys :D finally, after searching for several months, found a site that I can commission to create customized flags. If the rugby one comes in April 1st looking super awesome and durable, I'm placing an order for the football and soccer flags.

Give me some feedback :)
 
super,

while i applaud your efforts - the second and third flag variations contain 'germanic' influences that may be at least inappropriate and at most offensive. ( the second contains an iron or maltese cross - while the third appears to contain a partial swastika). i doubt you are looking for that effect by the use of those images.. i would suggest changes utilizing specific images associated with idaho state university/athletics

jmho
 
Super-

Spartan is right on this one... we are the bengals. Keep it simply to that. Not sure what the skull and bones is for . Definitely not relatedd to ISU or or mascot. How bout just a tiger or an isu... the fans are there to see the team not your flag. It should enhance the atmosphere not contrast and compete.
 
I appreciate the concerns, however, I have 3 counterpoints:

(Before I get started I want to point out that none of them have been ordered yet, except rugby, and that they are still open to be edited. Also, I will likely make a general ISU flag to use).

A) I added the skull and crossbones because its badass, and the players I've talked to think the flag is awesome. Original design contained a spade, but I thought the Iron/Maltese Cross added extra flair. This is a new era for ISU, so I wanna welcome it in with style. Never do anything halfassed, and be happy I couldn't find a pin-up girl silhouette I wanted to put on there 8-) I like to think it smacks of rebel awesomeness and the Fatigues of The U in 1986.

-We are the Bengals, but it doesn't mean we can't make it a little tougher looking. I never bought into the family-friendly thing and still won't, though I've mellowed out quite a lot over the years and am not nearly as intimidating as I used to be. Hell, excepting the vast majority of Montana football fans (the rest of the Griz Nation is fine) and those who are foolish enough to run flags through our fan sections, I'm actually very fun to be around and I take pride in being a fairly gracious, gregarious host.

B) Of course the flags contain German influence. German influence in flags is not wrong at all. The Iron Cross, contrary to the views of Hollywood and mainstream, dumbed down and politically correct America, is not evil and has been around since 1813 and in variants since the Middle Ages. It has a long and distinguished history. Also, in contemporary times, motorcyclists use it, surfers use it, countless nations around the world use it, including France, most Eastern European nations, Scandinavian nations and even the Russians in countless military decorations.

-I'm not intending for the design to be in anyway offensive. I just like the template and I think it makes a vibrant, colorful display that makes it easy to work with (once the main template is done, that is...man, I'll tell you that software is a PAIN IN THE ASS at times).

C) Partial swastika? I don't see one. I'm not sure how the soccer flag is using a swastika at all. It has the old ISU logo, a rose, a Bengal, the years the team has won the Conference and uses Bengal colors. If you're referring to the design of the flag (black cross on white), I respectfully point you to the British War flag, any Scandinavian nation's flag, England and the Welsh Cross or any old Prussian flag in the Era of Unification.

-This is a swastika:
Nazi_swastika_clean_svg.png


I'm not seeing one on my flag designs, or anything remotely related.

I understand your guys' concerns but the flag designs stay. I mean, I've waved the Imperial Battle flag for several months now and you'd figure I'd have the ACLU or some uptight, offended know-it-all in my face threatening me with lawsuits. Not one. Have had a lot of interested folks who thought it was awesome, though, including a few veterans who have asked me where they could buy one (militaryissue.com or flagline.com...the latter is better; sells a much more detailed flag for less AND order it with no special shipping charges and it STILL gets to ID in 2 days).

-Ross
 
you asked for input and received it

you then discount input and announce that you're going right ahead anyway

why ask then?

thanks for the history lesson (please read that with massive sarcasm)

if you don't get it - it cannot be explained to you.... the images are there and will be offensive to some in the crowd - you can attempt to justify the images you have selected in any number of ways - won't change a thing... they are inappropriate for idaho state university athletics

please remember - no one is going to the game to see you... or your flags

they are there to watch/support idaho state university athletics - try and keep that in mind instead of putting your wants and needs ahead of the univeristy and the program....

jmho
 
Just because concerns are acknowledged and genuinely appreciated doesn't mean that they should be taken as an order to stop what one is doing, spartan. If that were the case, I would have disappeared from the ISU Sports scene lonnnngggg ago. On the larger scale, if that were the case then nothing would ever get accomplished. Concerns are raised and sometimes you have to politely refuse them. People raise concerns about issues because it's the right thing to do. It's up to the person who's receiving those concerns to decide whether to act upon them or not. I really do appreciate the input but that's all I was asking for. Input doesn't equal an order.

I'm not there to put these "ahead" of the university. I'm just making them because they're badass and I promised the teams they'd have some flags for next season, and they heartily approve of them. You can assign any designation you desire (people do it to me all the time), but try not to outsmart yourself.

By the way, the history lesson. Yeah, it's necessary, because it needs to be explained to people these days that the Iron Cross is not evil, it's not a Nazi invention (nor is the goose-step), and that it's not a hate symbol. It's a noble, fairly badass symbol with a distinguished history, and it continues to be used today.

You also had the gall to point out a swastika. I pointed out there were none on my flags.

I get what you're saying, spartan. I'm not a brick wall. I know the flag design could be misconstrued. But I figured if I could get away with the Imperial War Ensign, I could design a flag in its likeness, just with a good overhaul and some good ol' ISU placed on it. Remove the Prussian eagle, add the ISU logo, remove the Iron Cross (because the background was interfering with the upper right canton) and add a tiger, and place the Conference titles won and presto! Awesome ISU flag for soccer.

Another thing-

Why conform to just a simple ISU flag? It's like asking me to remove the ISU gear, wear a simple ISU shirt, sit down and clap my hands politely when something good happens. The smaller orange flag I made back in freshman year has claw marks, three ISU ribbons, the fight song and a loyalty pledge on it. Sports and their respective tactics can be conservative. Fan support cannot be and shouldn't be. Fan support should be vibrant, colorful, and should always have flair. Makes the game fun.

Finally, what makes you think I ever believed people were there to see me? I just go out and have fun and support my friends on the teams. If I wanted people to notice me, I'd go streaking :)
 
isusuperfan said:
......I really do appreciate the input but that's all I was asking for. Input doesn't equal an order......

I have some input. First, hats off to you fro the school spirit.

Some of this is general, some flag-specific.

1) The tiger images are random, inconsistent, and look like they were found using a quick google image search.

2) Regardless of how you feel about it, the iron cross does carry a Nazi stigma and will surely offend some people, and possibly encourage others better left unencouraged.
Recommendation: Eliminate the cross. Use a proper Bengal Tiger consistent with ISU. The pirate logo is okay. Maybe center it, put the slogans on one side and the tiger on the other.

3) The typography is random, off-brand, and very amateurish.

4) The third design from the left, besides carrying a partial reversed swastika in the background, is a mess. Please, whatever you do, eliminate that one. The swastika, the rose, the random google image tiger, the ladies afternoon tea typeface, the pixelated logo....my gawd man.
Recommendation: Throw it out.

5) The volleyball flag uses the "Ulster Flag" as a backdrop, for some reason, another random tiger,and that sqiddly-dee thingie with the crown in the middle is what exactly? I like the players in silhouette - that's cool.
Recommendation: Use the silhouettes, bring them closer, keep the headline and slogan, keep the date, drop the cross and everything else.
 
Try a more American design... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=523791151573&set=p.523791151573&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Warning: this post will contain both responses to flag designs and will contain some political content. Apologies.

*Quick point so it doesn't become lost in this post* The pixilated logo, from what a rep told me, can be touched up and made much more presentable by the artists who work on it. I think she said I can just leave a note requesting them to touch up the design and make it more "natural" so that it doesn't look so computerized. Either than or I'll just run to the mall and ask them to give me a good image of the logo and save it to my flash drive.

On to the post...

Nazi_swastika_clean_svg.png


Again, this is a swastika. I don't see one on any of my flags. Last I checked, the soccer flag I made is based off of this flag, created in the 1880's after the unification of Germany:

imperial_german_flag_150.gif


On a further note, that flag has a cousin with which it (and earlier Prussian designs) were based off of:

britnavy.gif


The "background swastika"...what are you talking about? That cross in the background has been used since the Middle Ages. There is no possible way you can "see" a background swastika. The only way is that you're trying to. And if that's the case I will happily disregard everything and carry on.

I ask again...where...is...the swastika? You can't find one in either of those flags beacuse IT'S NOT THERE. Concering the Iron Cross, if it carries such a stigma why aren't people crying about the whole West Coast Chopper phenomenom? Quit referring to any Germanic influence as a Nazi design. If there's such a "stigma" (why Americans would have one I have no idea. We didn't lose almost an entire civilization to those madmen of the 3rd Reich...the Jews did. And the Jews I know have no problems with my designs OR my Imperial flag), why have I heard nothing about my Imperial Flag I've been waving for 8 months?

Back on topic:

About the tiger images. The site I worked on didn't have any Bengals so I had to make do with tigers. I'm sorry, I was disappointed too. The best they had were pawprints, and that was too vague. It is a site that is used by professionals and amateurs, so expect some wildly varying degrees of designs. Now, I could use ISU logos and Bengal heads but the background in the gif images can't be "painted over" as to be consistent with the image; basically I'd have a REALLY ugly looking square with a Bengal sticking out, unless I conformed to that color in the overall flag design, and I found that really limiting. So I had to make do with my lack of technological knowledge and my overabundance of creativity.

PS: You guys used Cincinatti Bengal merchandise for those old Bengal cookouts my freshman year. I still have the apron and you guys encouraged me to use it as a cape. Not sure how you can criticize me for using "random tiger images not consistent with ISU" when you wanted me to don an NFL team's logo for ISU games.

You say it looks awful. The soccer team thinks it's awesome. I am giving it to them after the last home match next season, which will also be my final year. The same goes for football and volleyball, and the rugby flag will be given to the team as well. Thus they have a reason why they are the way they are. They are to be unique, vibrant and special flags in regards to the teams they were made for, instead of some generic ISU flag you can make in several minutes. They aren't just support flags I'll be using. They are gifts I will be giving them when my last home game comes up in each sport next season, as a way of saying thanks for all the precious memories and years of pride they have given me.

Concerning the brand...what do you mean? If you mean by fonts, you do realize ISU uses a lot of them, right? If by brand you mean a family-friendly, toned down flag, I ask, why? No sense in holding back. Except the football flag, all my flags are influenced by monarchies because they have the best taste. If I could get a coat-of-arms generator site to work my way, I'd use it in conjunction. If by brand you mean using strictly ISU logos and such, I say that's really boring.

Another thing, and I know I'm being hypocritical here because of my usage of other flags, and by extension I think it will clear a lot of things up about why I don't randomly fly American flags despite everyone wanting me to:

I'm not using an American design. It's a good looking flag for sure, and I'll commission it to be made for you and mail it up to you for you to use however you'd like. (send me your address to my email). But I won't wave an ISU'd out American flag. Nor will I randomly wave an American flag unless it's a national holiday. I can't stand what this country has done to its own flag and instead of holding it as a sacred symbol to be respected, we've marketed the living hell out of it. We put it on tshirts, bikinis, credit cards, used it as a mere prop in every advertisement conceivable, allowed it to be abused by Tea Party activists and used as a symbol of anti-corporate greed by the liberals. I will never forget the day I saw a dude drive down Yellowstone with flag stickers on his pickup toss an American flag outside his car and onto the highway. I almost got hit by some cars rescuing that flag and to this day it sits on my desk in my room, in relatively good condition. *Gets off of soapbox*
 
What he said: Give me some feedback

What he meant: Give compliments only and stroke my ego.

A flag should be simple. These flags are too busy, too controversial, and not memorable. Somebody a few rows away wouldn't be able to decipher what these even are. So what's the point of waving it? I will stand and cheer when a good ol' generic ISU flag goes by. I never stood or cheered when those other flags you carried went by, because I didn't recognize them and didn't know what they represented.

Still love ya isusuperfan!
 
you state the folowing:

"If there's such a "stigma" (why Americans would have one I have no idea. We didn't lose almost an entire civilization to those madmen of the 3rd Reich...the Jews did. And the Jews I know have no problems with my designs OR my Imperial flag),"

i suspect you are anti-semitic - that would help explain all the 'german' worship you tout and symbols reflecting the same ideals.... you claim to be a history buff or major - how someone in that area can be so blind to the ongoing power of modern symbolism and have litte or no concept of the losses suffered by any number of nations and peoples is simply unconscionable... if you really do believe what you spout it's likely you only view and/or use history when it meets with an undeveloped understanding of it...
the symbol (swastika) is there.. if you are unable or unwilling to see it.. .thats on you.....

you set up a straw man argument with the west coast chopper bs - that should be beneath you (but apparently isn't) along with the faux wrapping of yourself in the flag you 'saved' - nobody was discussing either of those but nice try anyway....

please remember - no one goes to see you.. its not about you.. .

seriously - you just don't get it....
 
How do I put inline images in a post? The "Add image to post" link below doesn't work, and the Img tag is all about referencing a URL.

I want to show a couple pics that would help ross understand a concern.

thx
 
Counterpoints:

I'm not anti-Semetic, never was and never will be. You lost all respect and credibility I had gained for you when you even attempted to make that equation.

I don't worship Germany but I hold their (and other nations) age-old traditions in the highest respect, and I research them all to do my part to keep them alive in a world that has lost all sense of pride, respect and tradition in the name of making money.

Again, Germany doesn't equal Nazi. The Iron Cross doesn't mean "Death to Jews and other non-Aryans" despite what the sacred cow of political correctness would like people to believe.

I used the flag story to disagree with Moscow and in plain English, I don't want to contribute to the Great American Pasting of our symbols. It's why I'm so opposed to using American flag designs in my flags.

My point about the West Coast Chopper issue: if there IS such a stigma, why hasn't anyone said anything about WCC?

I'm not blind to modern symbolism or Nazi atrocities. Maybe Tea Partiers and anti-Republican liberals are, but not me.
 
tigerpaws said:
How do I put inline images in a post? The "Add image to post" link below doesn't work, and the Img tag is all about referencing a URL.

I want to show a couple pics that would help ross understand a concern.

thx

OK, go to Google Images, find the pic and before the page loads, click "see image" (It should be on the side of the google option). Copy the image location (the web address) and paste it between this little thingy:

[ img ] [ /img ] (NO SPACES)

Be warned, you can't alter the size of it.
 
isusuperfan said:
tigerpaws said:
How do I put inline images in a post? The "Add image to post" link below doesn't work, and the Img tag is all about referencing a URL.

I want to show a couple pics that would help ross understand a concern.

thx

OK, go to Google Images, find the pic and before the page loads, click "see image" (It should be on the side of the google option). Copy the image location (the web address) and paste it between this little thingy:

[ img ] [ /img ] (NO SPACES)

Be warned, you can't alter the size of it.

Thanks, but as I said I want to insert images no reference URLs. See if I can figure out a way.
 
superfan… a few points to ponder….

‘the Jews I know’… that statement in and of itself speaks volumes about you…

to paraphrase Shakespeare ‘methinks you protest too much’…

perhaps a paraphrased Biblical reference will have some impact….
‘Jeremiah 5:21
you have eyes but do not see,
you have ears but do not hear


seriously - you just don't get it....even with all your walter mitty bs…. you still just don’t get it….
 
Tigerpaws: If that's the case I cannot help you friend, because I'm just as lost as you are :(

Spartan: Prepare to get a history lesson as well as a rebuking.

I'm not anti-Semetic in any way. Mom brought me up in a way that it'd never happen and hasn't happened. She showed me Schindler's List when I was 8 years old. The questions I asked and the responses I got will never leave me. By the time I was 15 I had read: "The Revolt" (Menachen Begin), "Mila 18" (Leon Uris), "My Life" (Golda Meir) and "Vengeance" (George Jonas). I fully comprehended "Night" before the Honor students had even read it. Finished "The Source" by James A. Michener and loved it. I am well versed in the thousands of years of tragedies and horrors and the hopes and aspirations of the Jewish people; don't ever affix that crap to me again.

I had a man try to give me a book once. It was called "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion". I'm sure you have heard of it. One of the worst abominations ever to happen to the Jews. I burned it when I got home, found that it was useful for starting a good fire.

History lesson: You realize that about 100,000 Jews served in the Imperial German Army and 12,000 of them didn't return home to grieving parents, right? Those men died for the Empire, for Germany and the Kaiser. And you have the gall to say that the Imperial German flag is anti-Semetic. That the Iron Cross is anti-Semetic. You are dead wrong and proof America needs to be more versed in world history. I'd write more and I will but for now I have a friend who is fixing my main computer (video card died :( ).

You need to be kicked in the nuts, spartan.
 
you may have read the words but it doesn’t seem you understood them…..

your actions speak louder than your words… you say you understand and yet you still insist on promoting images identified with hate and discrimination….

correct me if i am mistaken… but didn’t you also create a you tube video on your blog pairing an isu womens sports team with a ww2 german marching song…?

seriously… wtf are you thinking..?

yes… i have the ‘gall to suggest that certain germanic symbols are viewed as anti-semetic….they are

they are also inappropriate to use in (faux) support of idaho state university/athletics

of course i have no doubt YOU could provide the lessons america needs to be more versed in world history (at least your version of it)…. after all… you burn books….. given your predisposition for certain icons (i use the term ‘icon’ specifically in relationship to your affection for certain imagery)… why doesn’t that surprise me….?

it’s not about you…..

you just don’t get it…..

you even pulled out the mommie card….. wow…

you just don't get it....
 
Ross-
Please clarify- you say that you don't want to use American symbols in association with your isu flags due to the use of said icons for in commercialistic and other explotative fashion.

Are you not doing the same with the arhaic european images? Using the image for your own purpose, which purpose is not what the symbol was originally used for?

You seem to contradict yourself there. While the misuse of the american flag by some may occur, I know too many who proudly wave their true colors despite how some may use it. too many brave men and women fought and fight for the symbol of America. Not saying that you don't feel and appreciate it also...
 
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