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ISU Football Flag Design

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"Tigerpaws: If that's the case I cannot help you friend, because I'm just as lost as you are "

That's really a shame because I doctored one of your flags a little to help you understand one of the issues very clearly. You would get it immediately. I might post it somewhere online just to get a link here. Stay tuned.

Thanks
 
Okay, I got the pics online. Frankly, I think all the other issues I pointed out are more important, but with regard to the "swastika" issue.....please consider this:

5557390947_1e43aba589_z.jpg


5557393477_51e9ab530b_z.jpg


Okay, see it now?

I'm done with this. Please change the flags.
 
Spartan: The Koeniggratzer March was written in 1866, 4 years before the German Empire even existed, to commemorate the Prussian victory over the Austrians in the Battle of Koeniggratz. I used it and other marching songs from the Victorian Era from other nations as something of an inside joke that I had going on for years. Volleyball would have Britain, Soccer had Germany, Football had Austria-Hungary, basketball had Russia, and so forth.

Well hell I'm sorry I had to bring my mother into this but how else do you want me to defend your childish and irresonsible accusations of anti-Semitism? My upbringing is the best way I can put it. I was exposed to a lot of those things for years early on; that I would gain the knowledge that would make me a vocal opponent of anti-Semitism (but one who knows his history as well, so I could also be immune to PC talk and research things from an intelligent standpoint). You really need to be kicked in the balls for ever implying that I'm anti-Semitic, spartan.

Tigerpaws:

You know what, maybe I WILL change the soccer flag design...just so I can protect the integrity of the Imperial flag from people who won't stop with the Nazi comparisons. Jews served under that flag proudly and died for it, and Jews contributed mightily to the establishment of German culture, music, and history. The only reason why people would find the flag offensive is because they don't know their damn history and nor would they ever bother to because Hollywood, political correctness and politicians do it for them.

I'm sorry I ever brought this up.

This thread has been asinine and I'm deeply sorry I ever posted this. I'm done with it. Gute Nacht.
 
Ross,
I am a graphic designer. But I'm not writing to criticize your use of dated tiger clip art. I want to stress to you how your choice of images/designs/patterns can create an incredibly strong (and sometimes displaced) reaction in people. One thing I learned is you can justify your design choices all you want with pages of historical documentation, but what it really comes down to is how people REACT the first time they see something. Simple as that. And unfortunately some of the images you have chosen for your flags has created a negative response from a large group of ISU fans on this board.

The flag example above. Show it to 100 people and 99 will say it's a swastika. And we all know who the 1 is.

It sounds you enjoy the history of Germany (and are very knowledgeable) -- and that's great. But when you decided to "intertwine" their historic symbols with ISU athletics it confuses a lot of people -- including myself. Add the fact that Idaho has a reputation around the country for some pretty racist and anti-semitic activists to begin with, we can all see how this could be a big negative for all parties involved when teams come to Pocatello to play ISU.

There are thousands of ways to express your individuality at games. You do a great job and bring an enormous amount of energy and creativity to how you cheer for the Bengals and in general, it is a very positive thing. But you can see by the responses on this board your choice of "props" for games is not going over very well with many fans. I understand we have no right to tell you how to cheer, what to wear, or which flag to wave -- but I think it's OK if we tell you how we feel.
 
Amen Skycap, gotta love a fan with passion.

And with spring ball starting soon I feel we should return to talking football and give the flag discussion a rest.

My 2 cents..
 
2 more cents...

maybe this will help super get it….. this is what he said….

‘You know what, maybe I WILL change the soccer flag design...just so I can protect the integrity of the Imperial flag from people who won't stop with the Nazi comparisons. Jews served under that flag proudly and died for it, and Jews contributed mightily to the establishment of German culture, music, and history. The only reason why people would find the flag offensive is because they don't know their damn history and nor would they ever bother to because Hollywood, political correctness and politicians do it for them.’

change a few of superfans words and it reads like this….

‘You know what, maybe I WILL change the ….. flag design...just so I can protect the integrity of the rebel battle flag from people who won't stop with the confederate comparisons. blacks served under that flag proudly and died for it, and blacks contributed mightily to the establishment of confederate culture, music, and history. The only reason why people would find the flag offensive is because they don't know their damn history and nor would they ever bother to because Hollywood, political correctness and politicians do it for them….’

still not offensive? still like it cuz its ‘badass’? maybe you should throw that out as an ‘inside joke’ and see how it flies…?

you just don’t get it
 
epicFAIL.jpg


Seriously, how DID you manage to do that? Words cannot describe your level of fail, spartan.

Maybe this will help you "Get it". Last history lesson. I don't know how else to defend the Imperial Flag as a flag that's not anti-Semetic:

http://www.germanjewishsoldiers.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

links_side.JPG


epilogue_side1.JPG

("Feldrabbiner" translates to "Field Rabbi. This is Feldrabbiner Dr. Siegfried Klein
[born 1882, murdered in Auschwitz 1944]).

epilogue_side3.JPG


Berthold Guthmann with his brother and sister

"Berthold Guthmann was born in 1893 and volunteered for military service in WWI, as did his two brothers (one of whom was killed at Verdun). He became observer and gunner on military aircrafts and was awarded the Iron Cross (Second Class), the Tapferkeitsmedaille (Medal for Bravery), and the Verwundetenabzeichen (equivalent to the Purple Heart).

After the war he became a successful attorney in Wiesbaden. He was the secular leader of the Wiesbaden Jewish community during its darkest years (1938-1942) and second in charge of the Frankfurt Jewish congregation during its final months (1942-1943). He was murdered in the holocaust.

The following was part of the recommendation for the Iron Cross (ca. 1916) read: >>...Lt. Guthmann is brave and a fine officer, although Jewish...<<" Even though there was a bit of anti-Semitism, his recommenders overlooked their own prejudices and awarded him the Iron Cross, 2nd Class.

Let me put it this way: You play into the Nazis and Neo-Nazis hands when you try to A) Deny Jews' brave service for the Empire in WWI and B) When you try to affix swastikas, anti-Semetic prejudice and blind ignorance to German symbols that had been around for a long time. Your ignorance is their victory, spartan.
 
I won't get into the Nazi argument. I would just like to say that I am a big fan of simplicity. Your flags are a little busy for my taste, Ross. I appreciate your enthusiasm. You're a big boy and can do as you wish. Lets move on.
 
Just want to point out the inconsistency. Don't care what you do...
You continue to give historical "lessons" on how the symbols were "virtuous" at one point in time and at another the symbol was used in a nefarious way....

Just how American symbols have been used in bad ways despite a gloriously honorable history. U said that you won't use American symbols because of your perception of the negative ways people use it. You can't defend the one and turn and do the opposite to suit your argument.
 
I can't believe I was finally motivated enough to sign up for this board to comment on a flag thread, but here goes:

Sorry dude, the flags suck. They are too busy, too ugly, and yes...offensive. If I saw one of those waving at a football game, I'd wonder how I could have possibly not known that it was Third Reich Day at the game. The football one with the Bengal head and the logos on the ribbon below is...ok, but do we really want to make it known that our most recent football glory of note was 30 years ago? I mean, I had a ball in '81, but have long since put any sense of glory from that year behind me. If any of those were waved at an ISU sanctioned event, I would hope that you would be asked to refrain from doing so again, because those flags do not represent the Idaho State that I love.

On another note, guess I might as well introduce myself. Pocatello born and raised, proud Highland Ram. :nod: Now live in SLC, where I have, sadly, failed at instilling in my children the same passion for the Bengals that I have. (It would help if they would win a game once in a while :cry: ).

Have great memories of attending ISU football games with my dad, including every home game in '81. I still remember how funny I thought it was when someone threw their entire bucket of popcorn in the air as Case deBruijn's field goal beat Weber State (it's crazy the stuff we remember), and allowing Utah State to score on the opening kickoff, only to turn around and do the same thing to them. I still have every single game program from every game I ever went to, and if I dug around enough I could probably find the Mike Machurek autograph I got at the airport when they came home after winning the NC. I freaking love this team.

Dang...good times. I need to call my Dad haha.

GO BENGALS!
 
This is freaking hilarious………Spartan, changing the words in Super ventilator’s post was epic. As an ISU alum, I am extremely troubled by SuperNatzi’s lack of critical thought. I felt like every post was reducing the value of my degree. Super nut, what you should do is put your history lesson on the back of the flag, that way if people get offended they could read your fantastic interpretation of Germanic history.


This thread is a great example of why a little information is dangerous thing.
 
i'm new to this site...and have been reading this thread titled "ISU Football Flag Design" for several days...i've gone from being amused ...to embarassed to being an alum....to simply shaking my head in disgust....BUT is it not time that someone suggests that whoever is in charge of this site remove this subject completely....BEFORE we become more laughed at than usual from folks from the other schools that glance at our board...
........is it NOT spring football time?...where someone who goes to watch the practices should be relaying to us how the team looks, the enthusiasm being generated, how the new coaches...although most are young are connecting with their groups....should we not be talking about how the latest recruits are going to help us .....and how each of us are going to encourage our friends to buy tickets...tailgate...maybe have a beer or two....and cheer these kids on that are going to help turn this program around.............instead we have this topic........
..........superfan...i have seen you...never met you....used to appreciate your support for the teams in the past ...but to read how you seek ideas and opinions ...simply to argue with all suggestions.........now i simply question your common sense and i might even suggest you change your name from "superfan" to "studentforever"....because..... from this thread ...i'm afraid you will not make it in the real world...................oh geez.............football gods help us..........there's my two cents....
 
I am going to lock this thread due to multiple requests. PM me if you would like to have the thread active again. If overwhelming support comes in, I will unlock it.

I do not have an opinion on this issue and I can see both sides of the debate.

The beauty about a message board is the fact that we can post and debate various topics.
 
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