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Its been brought up before, but what the hell...

SJHornet

SJHornet

Active member
I remember asking this question last year, but this time I put some thought into it. Remember, this is only my crazy opinion.

I think that Sac State should join the Big West and convince Northern Arizona to do so as well. We are getting killed on a yearly basis in the Big Sky, and the travel is ridiculous. The Big West would a)cut down on travel b)create/continue many natural in state rivalries c)create more excitement for the rivals that come to town (in my opinion) and d)hopefully help us not get our a$$es kicked on a regular basis.

This would be my perfect conference picture:
Division A
CSU Fullerton
CSU Northridge
Long Beach State
Northern Arizona
UC Irvine
UC Riverside

Division B
Cal Poly
CSU Bakersfield
Pacific
Sacramento State
UC Davis
UC Santa Barbara

The Big West would also be able to have a separate football conference that would include Sac State, Northern Arizona, UC Davis Cal Poly and possibly invite San Diego from the Pioneer Conference. I'm sure Davis Cal Poly and USD would much rather play West Coast teams than their current situation. Plus Fullerton and Long Beach have recently made some noise concerning the possible return of football. Maybe a Big West football conference can convince these schools to revive their programs. If not a Big West football conference, we can always join the Great West.

I think Sac State students would relate much better to a conference comprised of local schools. I understand the prestige of being in a conference with teams like Montana, but getting smacked by them year after year is getting old. Plus most students at State don't really care. I remember hearing that there were hurt feelings and conflicting opinions between State and the BWC in the past, but I think the prospect of fiscal savings and upping the quality of the conference could smooth over any past differences.

Anyway, that’s my two cents Pipe Dream?
 
I don't think that scenario is going to fly with Dr. Gonzalez. I think he's much more interested in the WAC. We could fill the stands (and build bigger ones) with games against Boise State, Nevada, San Jose State and Fresno State and other D1A schools. He has a vision way beyond the Big West. Besides I see us competing with BSC schools this year and next in a very good way. My two cents...
 
I agree with HHD. What conference will draw more media attention (besides football as we know what coverage of a D-I FBS program is compared to D-I FCS) to men's hoops: the WAC or the Big West? Besides, we already have an in with the WAC as an associate member in baseball (one of the Big 3 men's sports where in 2008 we had the national champion in our conference) and gymnastics (where we have already won 2 WAC titles).
 
I am glad you brought this up SJHornet, as I have thought about this as well. I am torn between the idea. I agree that having in state schools to compete against might (and I emphasize the “might”) increase the interest of the students for athletics, but it may only add a few hundred butts in the seats. I do like how we wouldn’t have to fly our “non-money making” (everything but football and basketball) to Montana, Utah, Idaho, Oregon and Washington just for conference play. This would save a lot of money on travel and other expenses.

Also the underlying positive is that it could generate greater fan support for the “non-money making” sports. My sister landed a full ride to run cross country and track at LBSU, it was nice being able to hop in a car and see her compete regardless of if it was a home event or not. Also it allows other teams’ fans to travel to the events which results in larger crowds at the meets. My parents would always ask me why Sac State wasn’t in the Big West, and here is the reason they are not: Sac State has a football program; which leads me to the part of me that doesn’t like the move to the Big West.

cal poly and “the farm extension” are the only two Big West schools that have football programs, I’ll also add that they are the only Big West schools that will EVER have football. Fullerton and LBSU will NEVER bring back football. So they have a small group of people trying to push the issue, but the fact of the matter is unless the students want to fully fund the program via a sizeable fee increase, there will never be money for football programs at those schools. With that said, I would NEVER support a move into the Great West Conference for football simply due to the fact that it does not receive an automatic bid into the playoffs. So basically, unless you can win out year in and year out, you will have nothing more than an outside chance at being selected to the playoffs. Also the GWC has football teams in the Dakotas so I don’t think you would be saving much on travel.

With regard to your realigned Big West, all I’ll say is the bus league that is the Big West would NEVER want and/or allow NAU into the conference simply due to the logistical challenges their location presents. All state schools (yes UC folks, that does include you too :roll: ) are hamstrung with money problems which resulted in some school dropping programs. (I think UCI dropped its swimming program. Not that I care much for swimming but I imagine other schools had to face the same dilemma.) The Big West wouldn’t want a school that required a plane to get to in the conference. (Can you even fly into Flagstaff?)

Hypothetically speaking and consider football only, if they did allow out of state additions into the Big West, I would say add NAU into the conference. Also I would want them to add Southern Utah as well as they could potentially be a “travel partner” for NAU. The football part of the conference would look like this:

Sac State
cal poly
“the farm extension”
NAU
SUU
USD (Not a fan of including them due to the fact that they don’t give football scholarships, but for the sake of argument I’ll include them.)

This would create a 6 team conference which, maybe I am wrong here, would grant them an automatic bid into the playoffs. Also it is interesting to add that the playoffs will be expanding to 20 teams in the near future. (2010 or 2011 I think)
 
Having similar schools together in conference doesn't draw fan support (at least in California). How do I know? We were in these conferences for years and always had subpar attendance. So just by adding a monikor will not draw interest.

If anything it might drive it down. Most people perceive the CSU's as having horrible facilities and no administration support for athletics. The majority of this perception is true.

I say the WAC or Big Sky is where we ought to be. If we can average just 5-6,000 more fans a game, we would be close to Nevada, SJSU, NMSU, USU, Idaho.

Plus schools like SUU and SD don't offer 63 scholies and therefore are considered a non-qualifier for FBS teams. Even though it is a loss, the FBS money is nice. The Dakota's are gone as soon as something back east opens up.
 
Great Topic.

Judging by the turnout at the PSU game, the sooner the better this team hooks on with a better division.
That should be the #1 goal. Davis is already in a better position to beat us at the punch because they have a stadium and more name recognition. The WAC will decline our entrance with the facilities alone. Big Sky is in major trouble. ISU is the odds on favorite to eliminate football. The real chance is to go the way of being an independent and hire a big name coach to step us into the next level. South Florida did it.
 
hornutluver said:
Great Topic.

Judging by the turnout at the PSU game, the sooner the better this team hooks on with a better division.
That should be the #1 goal. Davis is already in a better position to beat us at the punch because they have a stadium and more name recognition. The WAC will decline our entrance with the facilities alone. Big Sky is in major trouble. ISU is the odds on favorite to eliminate football. The real chance is to go the way of being an independent and hire a big name coach to step us into the next level. South Florida did it.
Click to expand...

South Florida got a lot Big East and BCS money to jump start their program. For every South Florida there are 10 Idaho’s. Also “the farm extension” can’t move up until they expand their new stadium, yes that’s not a typo, expand their new stadium to seat a minimum somewhere in the neighborhood of 17k. Seeing as they just dropped a pretty penny on their new digs, I highly doubt such a *cough* prestigious academic institution *cough* will be willing to drop more money on an expansion for athletics anytime soon.

As terrible as Hornet Stadium is, it still can seat over 20k which means that it could be capable of getting the nod towards the FBS. Just take a look at Reno and how they made their erector set stadium work for the next level.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ncaafootball.com/image_lib/stadiums_nevada.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ncaafootball.com/index.php%3Fs%3D%26url_channel_id%3D34%26url_article_id%3D12879%26change_well_id%3D2&usg=__aQXP03JwAbgvEdcqupANsydkNug=&h=483&w=650&sz=465&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=W_Jw05RLTYPz6M:&tbnh=102&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DUniversity%2Bof%2Bnevada%2Bfootball%2Bstadium%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

All Hornet Stadium would need is a real press box and end zone seating. As much as this is a band-aid on a gun shot wound, it could still get the job done. If anything is holding Sac State down it’s the failure of getting an arena built for basketball. And if that was something truly worrisome to the WAC, I am sure Sac State could work a deal to play in Arco…which may be empty soon seeing as the Maloofs will probably whore themselves out to any city willing to give them a new arena. And I would think the WAC would love the idea of having the conference tournament in a place like Arco in a city with an airport not far from the arena with plenty of hotels in the area.

And who says ISU is dropping football? Wasn’t this issue resolved on another thread? And hiring a big name coach is working wonders for PSU. Didn’t we just beat them and their big name coach? :roll:
 
Doesn't matter what we want. It's about what Dumb-Dumb Dennis Farrell, the idiot running the Big West wants. He destroyed the great regional coverage the BWC had with Hawai'i, New Mexico State, Utah State, Idaho, and the directional LAs. He has wet dreams of a California Bus League, which he now essentially has. I fully believe that he's trying to push UOP out, and I'm not sure why he brought in the Manure Pile in the first place. The cream of the TV contracts go to SoCal schools, and the officiating ALWAYS favors SoCal. Besides, the BWC has already kicked Sac out once already. Why would they bring us back?

We're in the WAC already, but the Sky is a MUCH better place for us. We get regional coverage against decent competition, we're doing well in strategic sports, improving in others, and travel costs are less than would be required in the WAC.

The Big Sky is our home. We belong there.
 
Interesting points. I didn't know the BWC had kicked Sac St out previously.

The main reason I brought it up was for travel concerns, though I still think the in-state rivalries could have some potential. With all the budget concerns going on in California I think the program needs to be looking to run fiscally frugal. Though if Sac State wouldn't be a good fit for the BWC maybe we're better where we're at. Now to find a way to start beating these teams.

As for the WAC, interesting notion. It looks like Boise is ready bounce to the MWC any time now and rumors are circulating that Nevada and Fresno could follow to make it a 12 team conference. Makes for good odds that the 3 California schools get called up. I heard John Madden is pushing for Cal Poly to focus on its football and put more emphasis on athletics. I think there is a potential plan to up their stadium capacity. Davis' stadium is expandable, ours is pretty much good to go with maybe a few renovations here and there. Hell, its already better than Idaho's!

I think a jump to the WAC would certainly raise the programs profile, but it could be costly and run the risk of turning the program into a perennial cellar dweller. Then again we could surprise a lot of people and put some real effort into turning it into an over-achieving program. Still, not so sure. Travel will be worse than the Big Sky and it may be expensive renting out Arco.
 
SJHornet said:
and run the risk of turning the program into a perennial cellar dweller.
Click to expand...

What's different than what we have today?

We would need another $10-15M in the annual athletic budget to be middle road competitive in the WAC.

Fresno has an annual budget of $29M. We have a $15M budget, biggest in BSC, but not enough to win championships in the marquee sports.

Sac left the Big Worst because we were in the process of migrating to the WAC for baseball and softball. Big West kicking out Sac is like the welfare office kicking out homeless people.

Until an on campus arena is built and our football stadium is made permanent, nothing will happen.
 
Super Hornet said:
Doesn't matter what we want. It's about what Dumb-Dumb Dennis Farrell, the idiot running the Big West wants. He destroyed the great regional coverage the BWC had with Hawai'i, New Mexico State, Utah State, Idaho, and the directional LAs. He has wet dreams of a California Bus League, which he now essentially has. I fully believe that he's trying to push UOP out, and I'm not sure why he brought in the Manure Pile in the first place. The cream of the TV contracts go to SoCal schools, and the officiating ALWAYS favors SoCal. Besides, the BWC has already kicked Sac out once already. Why would they bring us back?

We're in the WAC already, but the Sky is a MUCH better place for us. We get regional coverage against decent competition, we're doing well in strategic sports, improving in others, and travel costs are less than would be required in the WAC.

The Big Sky is our home. We belong there.
Click to expand...

They only kicked us out as an associate member. The Big West doesnt want to have any associate members, only full ones, just like the Big Sky.
 
SJHornet said:
Interesting points. I didn't know the BWC had kicked Sac St out previously.

The main reason I brought it up was for travel concerns, though I still think the in-state rivalries could have some potential. With all the budget concerns going on in California I think the program needs to be looking to run fiscally frugal. Though if Sac State wouldn't be a good fit for the BWC maybe we're better where we're at. Now to find a way to start beating these teams.

As for the WAC, interesting notion. It looks like Boise is ready bounce to the MWC any time now and rumors are circulating that Nevada and Fresno could follow to make it a 12 team conference. Makes for good odds that the 3 California schools get called up. I heard John Madden is pushing for Cal Poly to focus on its football and put more emphasis on athletics. I think there is a potential plan to up their stadium capacity. Davis' stadium is expandable, ours is pretty much good to go with maybe a few renovations here and there. Hell, its already better than Idaho's!

I think a jump to the WAC would certainly raise the programs profile, but it could be costly and run the risk of turning the program into a perennial cellar dweller. Then again we could surprise a lot of people and put some real effort into turning it into an over-achieving program. Still, not so sure. Travel will be worse than the Big Sky and it may be expensive renting out Arco.
Click to expand...
 
Big money would be in FBS football. BW doesn't offer football.

I looked some things up: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

According to this report with info through 6/2008, we can say there are merits to Sac State and the WAC.

Cost of living and travel varies greatly in this conference, so the numbers are scattered. Plus, we offer 20 varsity teams, not sure if other WAC members offer +/-.

Overall athletic budget

Sac State: $15M

San Jose State: $17M
Fresno: $26M
LaTech: $12.5M
Nevada: $21M
Idaho: $13M
Boise: $22M
NMSU: $25M
Hawaii: $31M
Utah St: $13M
Avg: $20M

Not sure why Utah St. is so low. Hawaii spends $10M in travel alone. NMSU must cost an arm to attend, b/c the money they spend doesn't reflect on the gridiron. Ruston, La. must have a low COL.
 
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