JC recruiting

[blackfootbengal]

The reason JC kids are harder to recruiting depends on why they are in a JC to begin with; some are there to raise their grades, they were not qualifiers coming out of High School. Others were their because no one offered them out of high school, they are trying to show they belong. The problem is everyone wants the kids who qualified because they don't have to have an AA degree to transfer, just passing grades for the time they were in JC. These kids can leave the JC early and come in for spring football, those who did not qualify have to have an AA degree to transfer which they may or may not receive in May. This makes them a risk. Some never get their AA, this is what usually has happened when a JC is signed and never comes in.
Zamberlin was in the habit of signing JC kids that never made it. There are a couple of ways this can hurt a school. If you get a kid in school and he attends one class the school is tied to that kid for APR requirements. If the kid now drops out or becomes ineligible you have APR issues and a hole in your lineup. The other issue is what I just mentioned. When a kid you were expected does not come in you have a hole in your roster. For the most part JC kids are signed for immediate need on the team. It really creates a gap when you have these kids not make it. Tingey and Kramer put requirements in place to keep this from happening, kids have to be academically sound for any of our athletics to recruit them. This includes JC transfers, note the JC kids we have signed do very well in school.

 

[up for the challenge]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

 

[demian]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

Now UFTC my reply to follow is just for fun and not meant to be mean, You said = “Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered.“ we’ll then they should be your kind of guys then cuz you say we need JC players every recruiting season. just having a little fun with ya UP

 

[up for the challenge]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

Now UFTC my reply to follow is just for fun and not meant to be mean, You said = “Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered.“ we’ll then they should be your kind of guys then cuz you say we need JC players every recruiting season. just having a little fun with ya UP

You are not being mean Damian. If our players did not get offered by ISU the majority of them would have gone the JUCO route unless he had another offer. Nothing wrong going the JUCO route as it is good football. A good JUCO player will become an At Need player for a 4 year college that has a need for certain positions on their team. The JUCO players that come to ISU were not on the ISU Radar out of high school but they are now as they were offered a scholarship by ISU because there is a need. They are experienced players and will compete to be starters in 2018 otherwise why give them a scholarship? For someone to say JUCO players had grade problems out of high school or were not good enough to be offered a scholarship is not always true. There are plenty of JUCO players playing for a 4 year college.

 

[demian]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

Now UFTC my reply to follow is just for fun and not meant to be mean, You said = “Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered.“ we’ll then they should be your kind of guys then cuz you say we need JC players every recruiting season. just having a little fun with ya UP

You are not being mean Damian. If our players did not get offered by ISU the majority of them would have gone the JUCO route unless he had another offer. Nothing wrong going the JUCO route as it is good football. A good JUCO player will become an At Need player for a 4 year college that has a need for certain positions on their team. The JUCO players that come to ISU were not on the ISU Radar out of high school but they are now as they were offered a scholarship by ISU because there is a need. They are experienced players and will compete to be starters in 2018 otherwise why give them a scholarship? For someone to say JUCO players had grade problems out of high school or were not good enough to be offered a scholarship is not always true. There are plenty of JUCO players playing for a 4 year college.

I agree with you UP, juco football is straight up legit. I attended a juco in Texas called Odessa College. Our most famous alum was Larry Johnson (Gramma Ma) who played at UNLV for tarkanian and in nba for Charlotte hornets and Knicks. We had a smorgasbord of elite athletes on campus. Future Olympic track sprinters both for women’s and men’s. A future NBA player and future WNBA player in men’s and women’s hoops. Plus a few other D1 hoop players. So yes I am a big believer in talent level of JUCO athletes

 

[up for the challenge]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

Now UFTC my reply to follow is just for fun and not meant to be mean, You said = “Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered.“ we’ll then they should be your kind of guys then cuz you say we need JC players every recruiting season. just having a little fun with ya UP

You are not being mean Damian. If our players did not get offered by ISU the majority of them would have gone the JUCO route unless he had another offer. Nothing wrong going the JUCO route as it is good football. A good JUCO player will become an At Need player for a 4 year college that has a need for certain positions on their team. The JUCO players that come to ISU were not on the ISU Radar out of high school but they are now as they were offered a scholarship by ISU because there is a need. They are experienced players and will compete to be starters in 2018 otherwise why give them a scholarship? For someone to say JUCO players had grade problems out of high school or were not good enough to be offered a scholarship is not always true. There are plenty of JUCO players playing for a 4 year college.

I agree with you UP, juco football is straight up legit. I attended a juco in Texas called Odessa College. Our most famous alum was Larry Johnson (Gramma Ma) who played at UNLV for tarkanian and in nba for Charlotte hornets and Knicks. We had a smorgasbord of elite athletes on campus. Future Olympic track sprinters both for women’s and men’s. A future NBA player and future WNBA player in men’s and women’s hoops. Plus a few other D1 hoop players. So yes I am a big believer in talent level of JUCO athletes

I understand why posters have concerns about JUCO's but if there is a position need and they qualify academically than why not give them a chance. It is all about making the team record better in 2018 and not 3 years down the road. It is up to the coaching staff who they decide to give scholarships to as it is their program. Demian - I do remember Larry Johnson and he was one of the best players in the NCAA during his time at UNLV. Great Pro too.

 

[Beacon]

I think you’d all be surprised at the quality of play and competition at the JC level. Last Chance U gives a great look but they call themselves “National Champions “ without playing the California leagues. Lots of kids don’t get offered out of HS and need to get more experience and age to play D1 football. One school has sent about 13 kids to play D1 QB in the last 5 years! There are kids returning to JC from schools like Colorado, USC, Arkansas, Boise St, and others to relaunch their careers. I believe some JCs could beat a Big Sky Sky team or two.

 

[bengalcub]

Interesting Damien. I recently attended a Howard College/Odessa College hoops contest. The athletes on both these basketball teams really impressed me. In fact, I would say from an athleticism standpoint, both these squads were more athletic than the ISU men's basketball team. Howard College had a handful of foreign players and Odessa was loaded with studs.

I know there are cost challenges, but I can tell you that a great deal of small town talent goes unrecruited in the state of Texas, whether it be at the JC or the HS level.

 

[Skippy]

Recruiting is about relationships. The last Montana State staff had an assistant with strong relationships in Texas and they signed a lot of kids there. Joe O’Brien had a guy in Memphis who steered kids to Idaho State. The current NAU coach clearly has a Chicago connection, with four kids on his roster from the Windy City. You typically don’t walk into a geographic area outside your own and just declare your presence and expect kids and coaches to resonate to you. Hopefully when you get hired as a head coach, you figure out where your three or four key recruiting areas are going to be and you hire coaches with existing relationships there. If California JC recruiting is important to you, you better hire a coach or two with relationships there.

 

[demian]

Interesting Damien. I recently attended a Howard College/Odessa College hoops contest. The athletes on both these basketball teams really impressed me. In fact, I would say from an athleticism standpoint, both these squads were more athletic than the ISU men's basketball team. Howard College had a handful of foreign players and Odessa was loaded with studs.

I know there are cost challenges, but I can tell you that a great deal of small town talent goes unrecruited in the state of Texas, whether it be at the JC or the HS level.

Bengalcub = wow that is very cool you attended a game between Howard College and Odessa College. Do you live in the West Texas region or were you just visiting? Was the game in Big Spring, Tx at Howard College home arena or was it at Odessa College home arena. Both are nice venues. I attended the game at Howard College when i was there to cheer on my friends who were on the OC basketball team and I thought Howard College had a GREAT home arena. It was a bowl seating arena that was pretty nice i thought for a JC. Howard College has produced some legit pro talent as well. Currently in the NBA is Jae Crowder of the Cleveland Cavs who was a Howard College product. When I was at Odessa College from 1992 to 1994 we had a guy who ended up playing for quite a few years in the NBA his name was Moochie Norris. He was a pg and was the best player i had ever seen up close. I rememebr playing pick up games in the afternoon with some of the guys who were on the basketball team at OC but were inelgible for whatever reasons (academics, transfer rules or any other type of reasons) and i remember thinking to myself these are the best basketball players i have ever played against in my entire lifetime. One guy was a trasnfer from DePaul University in Chicago and he had to sit out the winter semester because he had just transfered to our school and oh my gosh he was the most athletic point guard i had ever seen. just incredible. Man you are bringing back good memories for me Bengalcub and UFTC, thanks for allowing me to go down memory lane. So yeah count me in the camp of guys who thinks Juco athletes are legit

 

[demian]

Do you think most of our players had multiple scholarship offers? Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered. They got lucky. It does not make them a better player or a better student.

Now UFTC my reply to follow is just for fun and not meant to be mean, You said = “Probably most of them was going to a JC until ISU offered.“ we’ll then they should be your kind of guys then cuz you say we need JC players every recruiting season. just having a little fun with ya UP

You are not being mean Damian. If our players did not get offered by ISU the majority of them would have gone the JUCO route unless he had another offer. Nothing wrong going the JUCO route as it is good football. A good JUCO player will become an At Need player for a 4 year college that has a need for certain positions on their team. The JUCO players that come to ISU were not on the ISU Radar out of high school but they are now as they were offered a scholarship by ISU because there is a need. They are experienced players and will compete to be starters in 2018 otherwise why give them a scholarship? For someone to say JUCO players had grade problems out of high school or were not good enough to be offered a scholarship is not always true. There are plenty of JUCO players playing for a 4 year college.

I agree with you UP, juco football is straight up legit. I attended a juco in Texas called Odessa College. Our most famous alum was Larry Johnson (Gramma Ma) who played at UNLV for tarkanian and in nba for Charlotte hornets and Knicks. We had a smorgasbord of elite athletes on campus. Future Olympic track sprinters both for women’s and men’s. A future NBA player and future WNBA player in men’s and women’s hoops. Plus a few other D1 hoop players. So yes I am a big believer in talent level of JUCO athletes

I understand why posters have concerns about JUCO's but if there is a position need and they qualify academically than why not give them a chance. It is all about making the team record better in 2018 and not 3 years down the road. It is up to the coaching staff who they decide to give scholarships to as it is their program. Demian - I do remember Larry Johnson and he was one of the best players in the NCAA during his time at UNLV. Great Pro too.

Yeah UTFC Larry Johnson was a great player at UNLV and your correct he was probably the best in the country during his time at UNLV. I think the staff is doing a real good job so far with bringing in JUCO talent. If i can remember off the top of my head i think we have commitments/signings from two OL and one DB so far with many offers out to other JUCO guys as well if i am not mistaken. Seems like a healthy balance to me at this point.

 

[demian]

Recruiting is about relationships. The last Montana State staff had an assistant with strong relationships in Texas and they signed a lot of kids there. Joe O’Brien had a guy in Memphis who steered kids to Idaho State. The current NAU coach clearly has a Chicago connection, with four kids on his roster from the Windy City. You typically don’t walk into a geographic area outside your own and just declare your presence and expect kids and coaches to resonate to you. Hopefully when you get hired as a head coach, you figure out where your three or four key recruiting areas are going to be and you hire coaches with existing relationships there. If California JC recruiting is important to you, you better hire a coach or two with relationships there.

Those are great points about the geographical relationships that you bring up. It appears that we have a real good footprint in the Utah area right now (proximity helps in this case as well). Seems like two of our coaches played college football in the state of utah so they are using there relationships from that to get in to that area. California obsviously is a place that all of the Big Sky Schools recruit heavily from. Washington seems to be a good place that we have gotten talent from as well over the past few years. Matt Troxel grandfather Ed Troxel was a legendary coach at Kennewick High School in Kennewick, Wa. (Tri Cities in Central Washington region) during the late 70's and 80's. So i know the Troxel name has long standing relationship ties in the central washington region not to mention Matt played at Lake City HS in Cour D Alain in northern idaho under his father Van Troxel, so obviously the Troxel name is strong in the Spokane area also. There are real good football players in Spokane and Tri Cities. It seems like we have done very well recruiting the Seattle/Tacoma area also (i assume that was a byproduct of Coach Kramer having coached in the Tacoma area at Stadium HS as well as Coach Cooper being from that region also). Coach Phenice is from southern california and coached at UCLA and Cal State Northridge so his ties are probably extrememly strong in southern california i would assume.

 

[demian]

I think you’d all be surprised at the quality of play and competition at the JC level. Last Chance U gives a great look but they call themselves “National Champions “ without playing the California leagues. Lots of kids don’t get offered out of HS and need to get more experience and age to play D1 football. One school has sent about 13 kids to play D1 QB in the last 5 years! There are kids returning to JC from schools like Colorado, USC, Arkansas, Boise St, and others to relaunch their careers. I believe some JCs could beat a Big Sky Sky team or two.

I know last year (2017) ISU offered and tripped Jack Colletto of Camas HS in southwestern washington region. He only had two offers (ISU and Eastern Washington) and he was the Gatorade Player of the Year in the State of Washington for 2016. He did not commit to either schools he instead went to JUCO powerhouse Arizona Western and I just noticed this week he now has offers from Oregon State, Vanderbilt and Memphis after only one season at JUCO.

 

[bengalcub]

Demian, it was at the Colisuem in Big Spring. Funny how these JC’s can put together better facilities then the majority of Big Sky School. I lived in Big Spring and worked in Midland and Odessa for close to three years. Good, good people, in the area but I am not a fan of living in oil and gas territory because of all the people that come to the area to work only. In my opinion, they take the money, trash the community and then leave.

 

[demian]

Demian, it was at the Colisuem in Big Spring. Funny how these JC’s can put together better facilities then the majority of Big Sky School. I lived in Big Spring and worked in Midland and Odessa for close to three years. Good, good people, in the area but I am not a fan of living in oil and gas territory because of all the people that come to the area to work only. In my opinion, they take the money, trash the community and then leave.

Wow what a small world. I loved Odessa. My aunt and uncle live in Midland and I would visit them often when I was at OC. Midland seemed much nicer than Odessa. I know what you mean about the oil people coming into an area for work only. My moms family is from Williston, North Dakota and me and my son took the Amtrak to Williston in 2014 for a family reunion. Wow has that place ever changed. I used to go there as a kid a few times a year and it was a boring farming town. Now Williston is like a miniature Las Vegas lol haha. Even the Amtrak train had some interesting folks traveling to Williston for work (both legal work and what appeared to be illegal work lol haha). haha that's funny about your comparison of athletic facilities of some JC's compared to the Big Sky Conf.

 

[PBP]

Some JUCO's also have more money than some schools in the Big Sky.

 

[demian]

Some JUCO's also have more money than some schools in the Big Sky.

Very interesting

 

[up for the challenge]

I'm all in for bringing high school players into the program before JUCOs but when a program has not done so well over the years there comes a time when a change in recruiting philosophy maybe needed within the program.

 

[PBP]

I'm all in for bringing high school players into the program before JUCOs but when a program has not done so well over the years there comes a time when a change in recruiting philosophy maybe needed within the program.

True.

And ISU has done this over the years. But...if you think they are going to bring in massive numbers of JUCO's, you are going to be disappointed.

Eight, 10, 12 JUCO's a year or every two years simply is not going to happen. That hasn't been the philosophy of past coaching staffs and isn't this ones either, for reasons which have been publicly stated.

PBP

 

[up for the challenge]

I'm all in for bringing high school players into the program before JUCOs but when a program has not done so well over the years there comes a time when a change in recruiting philosophy maybe needed within the program.

True.

And ISU has done this over the years. But...if you think they are going to bring in massive numbers of JUCO's, you are going to be disappointed.

Eight, 10, 12 JUCO's a year or every two years simply is not going to happen. That hasn't been the philosophy of past coaching staffs and isn't this ones either, for reasons which have been publicly stated.

PBP

i never said to bring in massive numbers of JUCO players. What I have said for the last 6 years is a head coach should build a relationship with many JUCO head coaches so when there is a Need for a JUCO player you can call that JUCO head coach to see if they have a player that fits that position of need. Coach Phen will do what he needs to do to win games. His philosophy is not like Kramer when coaching or recruiting. I do not think Coach Phen can wait like Kramer to win games as he was hired to win games starting in 2017. He will have to show more wins in 2018. Do you agree or not about more wins in 2018?