votb
Active member
This story is in today's ISJ...about player retention in football program.
http://journalnet.com/articles/2009/10/02/sports/local/2.txt
http://journalnet.com/articles/2009/10/02/sports/local/2.txt
-
Hi Guest,
We've updated the site to combine all the forums that were part of the Big Sky Fans Network into one location. This will make it easier to navigate and participate in all the discussions for each school without having to have multiple accounts, etc. We are still working out some tweaks but please let us know if you notice anything.
With the migration, in some circumstances, your username could have been merged with one of your other usernames from the other forums. If this is the case, you can request to change your username in your account details page of your profile. -
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
-
Guest, do want an ad free experience on BigSkyFans.com among other benefits? Upgrade your account today!
Simply click your profile name > account upgrades > BigSky Club > choose between the year long subscription (two free months) or month to month
Thanks for the continued support. Cheers!
Journal story on player retention
- Thread starter votb
- Start date
TGIF!!! Which explains just meandering around the internet. This journal article got me thinking, so i was looking at the previous recruiting lists. I saw that some guys we had gotten were from jucos, so I started looking at some of their sites. Long story short... While on Snow Colleges, I saw the talai livai guy on their current roster, along with some other guys that seemed to have signed here at one time. This article seemed to offer some vantage point, but came off at times as excuses to me. Lots of guys it says leaving for personal reasons? Injuries? I know its a part of the game, but like cub said it seems to only be a portion of the picture that was painted in the journal. Imagine if we still had chadwick, milbourn, nailor... among others. Didn't Z say that he had no idea of how the APR would be affected in a callin show? But in the article he said it wouldn't be affected. Just seems inconsistent as a whole.
bengalcub
Active member
They key phrase that I got out of it was:
"The effect of their departures on Idaho State's APR will not be clear until the spring, at the earliest."
Now, I know the fact that I bring these things up pisses a number of folks off. This article did not even mention the amount of JC turnover. It also made no mention of Durr, Walker, Miller, Viser and Gibson. Here is what troubles me most, four of the above mentioned kids participated in Spring Football. Most coaches hold kids out of Spring Practice when they need to focus on grades. My point, the coaches could have identified some of these deficiencies midway thru the spring semester. So, now that I have bitched about the program, I will offer a solution...if kids are on the edge during the spring...have them concentrate on school-work instead.
I bring this up so often, because I really believe the foundation of the program is built in recruiting and depth.
Now, I have beat this 'horse to death' and as Skippy and VOTB have said...it is time to move on because you cannot control what has happened in the past. I expect that from them, they cannot say anything different because of the positions that they hold. I on the other hand...well I am concerned and rightfully so.
Kids that should have the chance to RS are being forced to exhaust a year of eligibility to cover for these missteps. I know that kids gladly do it, because they are eager to show loyalty and do their part and I respect and understand that. But, is this really in the best interest of these kids?
Just imagine how much stronger this team would be without academic issues and if they retained 70-80% of these kids like most other BSC schools. I have done the research on other BSC schools and with the exception of Sacramento State (and Sac State is retaining more than ISU) the Bengals far and away have the most trouble retaining kids.
Also, when a head coach says that they have no idea where ISU sits currently--well that concerns me. Because it is their job to know and no matter what is said or printed, I believe that they do know. If they do not--then that is a BIG problem.
With that said, I am confident that Coach Z is now paying particular attention to what is going on. This winter and what happens right after spring ball will really paint a picture as to if these things are improving. The reality is, it needs to improve a great deal and I am no less of a FAN for realizing it.
BTW, can anyone find a copy of Zamberlin's contract? I would really like to see what is in it.
"The effect of their departures on Idaho State's APR will not be clear until the spring, at the earliest."
Now, I know the fact that I bring these things up pisses a number of folks off. This article did not even mention the amount of JC turnover. It also made no mention of Durr, Walker, Miller, Viser and Gibson. Here is what troubles me most, four of the above mentioned kids participated in Spring Football. Most coaches hold kids out of Spring Practice when they need to focus on grades. My point, the coaches could have identified some of these deficiencies midway thru the spring semester. So, now that I have bitched about the program, I will offer a solution...if kids are on the edge during the spring...have them concentrate on school-work instead.
I bring this up so often, because I really believe the foundation of the program is built in recruiting and depth.
Now, I have beat this 'horse to death' and as Skippy and VOTB have said...it is time to move on because you cannot control what has happened in the past. I expect that from them, they cannot say anything different because of the positions that they hold. I on the other hand...well I am concerned and rightfully so.
Kids that should have the chance to RS are being forced to exhaust a year of eligibility to cover for these missteps. I know that kids gladly do it, because they are eager to show loyalty and do their part and I respect and understand that. But, is this really in the best interest of these kids?
Just imagine how much stronger this team would be without academic issues and if they retained 70-80% of these kids like most other BSC schools. I have done the research on other BSC schools and with the exception of Sacramento State (and Sac State is retaining more than ISU) the Bengals far and away have the most trouble retaining kids.
Also, when a head coach says that they have no idea where ISU sits currently--well that concerns me. Because it is their job to know and no matter what is said or printed, I believe that they do know. If they do not--then that is a BIG problem.
With that said, I am confident that Coach Z is now paying particular attention to what is going on. This winter and what happens right after spring ball will really paint a picture as to if these things are improving. The reality is, it needs to improve a great deal and I am no less of a FAN for realizing it.
BTW, can anyone find a copy of Zamberlin's contract? I would really like to see what is in it.
APR is so tricky....a guy like Wes Fletcher....well, he turned out to not be an academic qualifier, therefore he doesn't count against Idaho State, but you don't learn that until late. A guy like Jared Barthlome is in school (which was not mentioned), but not playing football. Scot Allen is in the military right now...there are a lot of factors that go into APR, that John probably doesn't know too much right now since he is knee deep in coaching a team.
Going throught the rosters though, it does suck that we have lost some freshmen, but you really are hamstrung...do you keep kids for the sake of the APR, or do you give them the boot? You almost can't win either way, and we don't have a team of folks that deal with APR stuff like the bigger schools (i.e., BCS schools and those with BCS money).
Catch 22 ... thy name is APR.
ISUSID
Going throught the rosters though, it does suck that we have lost some freshmen, but you really are hamstrung...do you keep kids for the sake of the APR, or do you give them the boot? You almost can't win either way, and we don't have a team of folks that deal with APR stuff like the bigger schools (i.e., BCS schools and those with BCS money).
Catch 22 ... thy name is APR.
ISUSID
Cus post showed up after I had already started posting, but of the kids you mentioned, they are all still in school, which means they are all 1-for-2s, and those don't hurt you...only 0-for-2s will get you in any sort of trouble....maybe. Reality is Viser, Miller, and Gibby could all be 3-for-4s if their grades improve for the spring.
Cub mentioned that they should have been on an "academic watch" (my wording) of sorts in the spring...um....yes, you are right, and they kind of were, and without throwing people under the bus, Coach Z. addressed it with the staff, and made some inter-staff responsibility changes to right that part of the ship. I will bet there is ZERO Big Sky coaches who have a handle on the APR other than what is told to them by others as it stands right now. None. Also, I would strongly disagree with the 80% retention rate offered...and remember, the article doesn't count a guy like Ben Laporta or a boatload of other kids that either signed in the summer and have been here and done fine, or kids who were walk-ons and now on scholarship that have done fine as well, and that's not a bag on Kelvin...he only had so much space to go through.
Also, no matter how much you ride kids and have coaches and academic folks looking over shoulders, if a kid doesn't want to do the work once he is on his own in college without mom and dad...well, there's only so much you can do. Kudos to John for working with the kids who are struggling and keeping them in the system...many other coaches wouldn't be concerned.
Hope that answers some of the points concerned....valid questions and queries one and all actually...
ISUSID
Cub mentioned that they should have been on an "academic watch" (my wording) of sorts in the spring...um....yes, you are right, and they kind of were, and without throwing people under the bus, Coach Z. addressed it with the staff, and made some inter-staff responsibility changes to right that part of the ship. I will bet there is ZERO Big Sky coaches who have a handle on the APR other than what is told to them by others as it stands right now. None. Also, I would strongly disagree with the 80% retention rate offered...and remember, the article doesn't count a guy like Ben Laporta or a boatload of other kids that either signed in the summer and have been here and done fine, or kids who were walk-ons and now on scholarship that have done fine as well, and that's not a bag on Kelvin...he only had so much space to go through.
Also, no matter how much you ride kids and have coaches and academic folks looking over shoulders, if a kid doesn't want to do the work once he is on his own in college without mom and dad...well, there's only so much you can do. Kudos to John for working with the kids who are struggling and keeping them in the system...many other coaches wouldn't be concerned.
Hope that answers some of the points concerned....valid questions and queries one and all actually...
ISUSID
bengalcub
Active member
Frank, I understand your angle.
However, ISU can control what it can control and one of those things is making sure that kids are eligible to compete. Kids that are struggling are easy to identify if a staff is committed to it. Academic casualties rarely reach up and surprise anyone.
Also, I am not an advocate of keeping kids around to just keep them around. But, that is something that a coaching staff is responsible for---bringing the right kids into the fold.
If I am hired to manage a company and make it successful and I lose 50% of the folks that I made the decision to hire, I would assume that I would be scrutinized. Furthermore, the foundation and growth of my business would probably suffer as well. I could make all the excuses in the world if I chose to, but nonetheless as the leader, I would be accountable.
In conclusion--I could be pacified with progress toward improvement, really I would.
However, ISU can control what it can control and one of those things is making sure that kids are eligible to compete. Kids that are struggling are easy to identify if a staff is committed to it. Academic casualties rarely reach up and surprise anyone.
Also, I am not an advocate of keeping kids around to just keep them around. But, that is something that a coaching staff is responsible for---bringing the right kids into the fold.
If I am hired to manage a company and make it successful and I lose 50% of the folks that I made the decision to hire, I would assume that I would be scrutinized. Furthermore, the foundation and growth of my business would probably suffer as well. I could make all the excuses in the world if I chose to, but nonetheless as the leader, I would be accountable.
In conclusion--I could be pacified with progress toward improvement, really I would.
Don't know about Coach Z's contract, but the contract that the State Board Approved for Joe O'Brien earlier this year provides for a $1,000 bonus for having an APR in the 50 % to 59% range, $2,000 for being in the 60% to 69% range, $3,000 in the 70% to 79% range and $5,000 for being 80% or above. See the State Board of Education's web site, June 18, 2009 meeting agenda, Business and HR Committee.
SLCBengal
Active member
It's usually "hidden" in the Board of Education's website:
BoardOfEd.Idaho.gov: Zamberlin's Contract (pdf file, information begins on page 41, APR incentives are on page 44)
BoardOfEd.Idaho.gov: Zamberlin's Contract (pdf file, information begins on page 41, APR incentives are on page 44)