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Keeping up with the FBS mess

SJHornet

SJHornet

Active member
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/s...-says-WAC-has-new-members-lined-up-957909.php

WAC is ready to expand again. Looks like they will try to expand further east, but they are also looking to go after schools who have previously said no. This article doesn't mention us, but the WAC boards seem to think we are still in the mix. The WAC board has actually been all about us the last few months. They seem to think Sac and Portland are the answer to their problems.

I don't see any of the schools who have turned down the WAC taking interest now. But i guess you never know. This may be the last opportunity for a while to get a foot in the FBS door, which I imagine will be on of the WAC's strongest selling points. They also just got their proposal adopted which will keep the WAC's auto-bid in place.

Additionally, an interesting quote:
http://bobcatreport.com/news/?p=42
"...Finally, what I considered to be the best part of our talk. Benson acknowledged a 3 to 5 year plan to extend membership to some combination of Cal Poly, Sacramento State, UC-Davis, Montana, Montana State - plus "some Texas schools to join us whenever they are ready".

I would like to think the Cali schools will be in contact with one another and stay together. Doubt its the case, but it would be nice.

The madness never ends!
 
I still think the WAC is the sports version of the Titanic. I hope we steer a WIDE berth around them. If we go FBS (and I'm still against it), I think we'd be better off taking the entire Sky with us. I don't believe an entire conference has moved up at once since the split (and we have several schools that patently aren't ready), but the continuity would be so much better. And we won't have to have an independent contingency plan like Texas State has in place right now for fear the WAC blows up in their faces.
 
I read one of the WAC boards from time to time and there was utter desperation before the recent proposal passed by the NCAA. It would have forced the WAC’s hand and they would have had to make some bold moves if the chages weren’t passed. Now the WAC has as long as they need to scout out new members or wait for somewhat interested universities to get things in line for an invite. These changes have somewhat stabilized the WAC for the meantime.

With Gov. Moonbeam recently proposing a $1 billion dollar cut in higher education to the state budget, I don’t see how any of the CA FCS schools will be able to seriously make a push for membership. It will be damn near impossible to find the money for the added costs associated with the FBS level. With the geographic cluster fvck that the Big Sky has become with the addition of North Dakota as a full member, there is no reason to not take a serious look at the WAC. At least the combination of TX State, UTSA, LA Tech, and NM State can provide for easier travel for the Olympic sports when compared against a lone trip out to Grand Forks, ND and some other BSC outliers. Plus San Jose State would serve as a travel partner for the Olympic sports.

If somehow all the CA FCS schools can find a way to make the move, it would add some balance to the WAC between CA and TX/LA. The WAC could then make a push to get to 12 football schools so they could split into two divisions and keep travel costs down. The Pac-12 and MWC are going to need OOC games so the WAC should not have problems filling OOC opponents for football.

WEST:
  • • Utah State
    • Idaho
    • Sacramento State
    • San Jose State
    • Cal Poly
    • them
    • Seattle (non-football)
EAST:
  • • New Mexico State
    • Louisiana Tech
    • Texas State
    • UT San Antonio
    • Lamar
    • Another TX or LA school?
    • Denver (non-football)
 
SDHornet said:
I read one of the WAC boards from time to time and there was utter desperation before the recent proposal passed by the NCAA. It would have forced the WAC’s hand and they would have had to make some bold moves if the chages weren’t passed. Now the WAC has as long as they need to scout out new members or wait for somewhat interested universities to get things in line for an invite. These changes have somewhat stabilized the WAC for the meantime.

With Gov. Moonbeam recently proposing a $1 billion dollar cut in higher education to the state budget, I don’t see how any of the CA FCS schools will be able to seriously make a push for membership. It will be d@mn near impossible to find the money for the added costs associated with the FBS level. With the geographic cluster fvck that the Big Sky has become with the addition of North Dakota as a full member, there is no reason to not take a serious look at the WAC. At least the combination of TX State, UTSA, LA Tech, and NM State can provide for easier travel for the Olympic sports when compared against a lone trip out to Grand Forks, ND and some other BSC outliers. Plus San Jose State would serve as a travel partner for the Olympic sports.

If somehow all the CA FCS schools can find a way to make the move, it would add some balance to the WAC between CA and TX/LA. The WAC could then make a push to get to 12 football schools so they could split into two divisions and keep travel costs down. The Pac-12 and MWC are going to need OOC games so the WAC should not have problems filling OOC opponents for football.

WEST:
  • • Utah State
    • Idaho
    • Sacramento State
    • San Jose State
    • Cal Poly
    • them
    • Seattle (non-football)
EAST:
  • • New Mexico State
    • Louisiana Tech
    • Texas State
    • UT San Antonio
    • Lamar
    • Another TX or LA school?
    • Denver (non-football)
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
personally, i think the CA schools need to focus on what they need to do to survive the next few years. with a proposed $500M budget cut coming to UC/CSUS, that's gonna have an impact on the FCS schools. scholarship cuts will go up, and you have to assume the monies from the campus will go down (again).
 
DrMike said:
personally, i think the CA schools need to focus on what they need to do to survive the next few years. with a proposed $500M budget cut coming to UC/CSUS, that's gonna have an impact on the FCS schools. scholarship cuts will go up, and you have to assume the monies from the campus will go down (again).
Click to expand...
Yeah it's going to be hard to justify athletic budget increases in the near future. President Gonzales forcibly raised athletic fees a year or two ago and I recall reading somewhere that the Sac State admin speculated that an additional $5 million per year could get the athletic budget in range for FBS operations. With 30k students, that’s an additional $167 per year or about $84 dollars per semester. As much as it hurts, it is doable. If Sac State is serious about going FBS, the decision to move would be made now.

Hell we are all speculating about FCS schools, imagine what will happen at the current FBS schools on the state dime that will have to find funding for current expenses.
 
So the rumors of the MWC taking on SJSU and Utah State were all false. Good move imo, neither school has much to add to the MWC, if anything SJSU could have used the TV market they are in for leverage, but alas they are still stuck in the WAC. It will be interesting to see what the WAC does. They could make a push to balance out the conference by adding western FCS schools (assuming anyone wants to or can make the move). Or Benson can continue to do nothing to solidify the shaky conference membership.

SALT LAKE CITY (AP)—The Mountain West Conference will not expand further to include either Utah State or Hawaii as a full member.

The conference board of directors on Tuesday issued a statement saying the configuration already established works best going forward. The announcement came at the conclusion of its annual meeting in Las Vegas, where topics included television contracts, membership and efforts to change the Bowl Championship Series structure.

The Mountain West will have eight members as of July, with BYU and Utah departing and Boise State joining current members TCU, New Mexico, UNLV, San Diego State, Colorado State, Wyoming and Air Force. In July 2012, TCU departs and Fresno and Nevada join in all sports. Hawaii joins the MWC in football only, while its other teams will compete in the Big West.
Click to expand...
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-mwcmembership
 
I could see USU making a positive contribution to the MWC. They always traveled well to the BWC tournament and probably do the same in the WAC.

SJSU not so much....
 
I think this story is far from over. MWC could be holding out for more Comcast $$$. Wouldn't be surprised if USU and SJSU were still in the fray and were invited before the end of the season.

If they are indeed stuck in the WAC, it is going to start getting very interesting in the FCS soon. Benson is going to come after schools guns blazing in an attempt to save his dying conference. This could be a last ditch effort. I see him inviting both Montanas, Sam Houston, Lamar, a few SBC schools (North Texas and the Louisianas most likely) and a combination of the three Cali schools. I still don't think any of the Cali schools bite, not now anyways. the Montanas and Texas school very well might answer the call though. This could be the last opportunity for many years to make the jump, and they'll be taking it into serious consideration.

Elsewhere, the Big 12-2 looks like it is beginning to unravel faster than the WAC. The new Texas-ESPN deal has seriously pissed off Texas A&M and caused the other schools to face the fact the Big 12 is actually the Longhorn Conference. Texas A&M and the Oklahomas are taking a long hard look at the SEC and making very little secret of it. I think Missouri makes a serious push to get into the Big10+6 as will Iowa State. I think the Kansas schools end up in the Big East or Pac 12. Baylor and Texas Tech could be left out in the Cold. Hello Conference USA or MWC. I also have a theory that Texas Tech and Baylor could woo the CUSA Texas schools along with Tulsa and New Mexico away to form a new 8 team Southwest Conference. Just a pipe dream! :D

The other potential shuffle could involve the MWC loosing teams to the rifting Big 12. Should only A&M take off for the greener pastures of the SEC, or only 2 leave, or Texas becomes independent leaving the rest behind, the Big 12 could try to keep itself alive by poaching Air Force, New Mexico and Boise State. Colorado State, UNLV and Wyoming could also be potential targets. Should the MWC loose any more teams, USU and SJSU will be a lock. Even Idaho will get a look.

I really think the WAC is in disrepair. there are even rumors of Denver considering rescinding the WAC invite. The Texas twins can easily find a home in the Sun Belt along with NMSU and LA Tech is on their knees begging CUSA to let them in. With further expansion in the works and its current members scrambling to leave, the potential schools have to see the WAC as an unreliable option with very little future. It will take some real vision, luck and begging to keep this conference alive and stable. At this point they are at the mercy of the other conferences who don't know their own fate. Its a crazy storm brewing in the FBS this season, and I think worst is yet to come.
 
Here is what the U-T is saying:

The Mountain West Conference has decided not to add more members -- at least for now -- because the potential candidates for membership were not considered lucrative enough to make it worthwhile.
Click to expand...

For expansion to make sense financially, new members usually must add a big enough television market to make up for the fact that the league will be adding additional mouths to feed in revenue-sharing. Otherwise expansion has the potential to dilute each member’s revenue share.
Click to expand...
Weber said the key question is: “Do they enhance a television contract or not enhance a television contract?”
“We got into the generic question of, ‘Do any of these teams that have been talked about add value?’” Weber said. “That question will change over time, but right now we didn’t see any."
Click to expand...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/25/mountain-west-holding-expansion/

It's all about the TV money. Sounds like Utah State is pretty screwed. They essentially will have to become a BCS buster for the MWC to accept them. They bring little TV market with them as the SLC market will be all over Utah and BYU. At least if the Montana’s ever make a move, they can count on USU and Idaho being in their neighborhood for a long time.
 
the WAC's Benson had a teleconference today. The most interesting thing he had to say was the WAC was looking into possibly merging with another conference. No details. I don't really see any other conference interested in such a deal. The only possibilities I see are the Sun Belt, Big West or Southland.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/utsa/2011/01/post-teleconference-with-wac-supremo/
For expansion to make sense financially, new members usually must add a big enough television market to make up for the fact that the league will be adding additional mouths to feed in revenue-sharing. Otherwise expansion has the potential to dilute each member’s revenue share.

Weber said the key question is: “Do they enhance a television contract or not enhance a television contract?”
“We got into the generic question of, ‘Do any of these teams that have been talked about add value?’” Weber said. “That question will change over time, but right now we didn’t see any."
Click to expand...

I agree with this which is why I thought SJSU would have been a shoe in. 9 million homes would be pretty enticing. The media market far outweighs the product on the field if the expansion was based on the television contract as many have speculated. A reason I think SJSU's chances aren't dashed just yet.
 
I dunno about this merger thing. The Sun Belt would draw the conference out too much (almost as bad as the Great West with Houston Baptist and NJIT). Outside of UOP and LBSU, the Big West would drag down RPI and other-sport cognates (especially Riverside). Are enough teams in the Southland ready to jump?

Food for thought....
 
Yeah I don’t see much hope in a conference merge. If a conference already has a bid to the NCAA tourney for hoops, there is no reason for them to merge. Right now with the perceived image of the WAC, the only conference who might want a wholesale merge is the purgatory stricken Great West Conference. If that is the conference they have targeted, it’s essentially Benson raising the white flag and indicating the WAC has finally ran out of options.

I personally think the WAC can hang on if they can last the next 3-5 years. If the CA budget recovers ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) he can target the 3 CA FCS schools and the Montana’s to add a balance between CA/Rockies and TX/LA. Obviously UM can’t “move up” without MSU but MSU is slated to begin expansion of their football stadium and it could possibly be the springboard to have both marketed to the WAC as a package deal. (Whether the state of Montana can support two FBS schools is another question.) The WAC would have stability but would lack a lot of large TV market areas to enhance its TV contract. Given the latest rule changes, the WAC is the only option for FCS schools to go FBS and the WAC can use that to their advantage. Whether or not Benson can find a way to exploit that remains to be seen.
 
Yet another article about the WAC/MWC situation:

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/20110126_Mountain_West_stands_firm_with_10_members.html

Here Benson states he wants the WAC to stand at 9 for football, 12 for basketball. Right now they stand at 7 football and 8 basketball members. He needs to find 2 willing football schools and an additional 2 basketball schools. My guess is he is going to go after the Montanas or find another 2 Texas Schools and invite Utah Valley, Seattle or Bakersfield. I can also see him testing the California waters again, though he'll probably be rebuffed.

My question is this: If he invites all 3 Cali schools, and Bakersfield, is it interesting enough for us to take the bait? That would give the WAC a strong base in California, and the conference would be rather weak allowing the Hornets to preform relatively well, potentially. The idea this may be the last window to go FBS for a long while has also started to seep in as a potential reason for the Hornets to look at a move. I'm still happy with the Big Sky and the moves it has made, but the WAC may look a little more incising if we had a slew of regional rivals.
 
SD: If Benson takes in the Great West lock, stock, and barrel, he has a question to consider. Do I take the Great West FOOTBALL Conference or the Great West Conference PERIOD. There really isn't much left of the GWFC after Cow Poly and the Manure Pile join the Sky, unless he can convince them that it's in their best interests to welch on that deal (and that would take a real con job, IMO). The few teams left would increase the conference footprint to the east, but not considerably so. He's REALLY screwed in terms of footprint if he takes in the BIG Great West Conference. Houston Baptist probably isn't a big deal in those terms because of the presence of LA Tech and the other TX schools (though HBU would likely be a drag on hoops RPI at the very least). The big issue is the presence of NJIT, extending the "Western" Athletic Conference from coast to coast and REALLY killing RPI. Of course, there's always the AAFC option: when the NFL merged with the All-American Football Conference for the 1950 season (that's when they got the Browns and 49'ers), several AAFC teams (such as the LA Dons and the Miami Seahawks) were given the kiss-off. Perhaps Benson could do something similar.

Whatever he does, I don't envy his position. For the time being, short of a miracle membership in a Pac-16, we're probably best off maintaining status quo. And so is just about everyone else.
 
SH, the GWFC will be dead starting in the 2012 season; I was referring to the GW hoops schools.

SJ I think the move has to be made. I know it’s a bad financial time for such a move, but essentially it’s now or never. Sac State has a TV market it could use as leverage as well as a talent rich area so we have something to bring to the table. If we make the move first, “the farm extension” and Cal Poly will have no choice but to beg, barrow, and steal their way into the WAC. There is no way their egos will allow them to stand back and watch us go FBS without following suit. Unfortunately I don't think the move will be made at any of the CA FCS schools due to the pending budget cuts. ($500M for CSU's and $500M for UC's)

Also with the increased footprint of the BSC, imo it has become seriously disadvantageous to be a full member in the Sky for us. With the added full members, all NCAA payouts will be cut 13 ways which will also have its impact on budgets. Sure the WAC will have it’s far flung locations like San Antonio, San Marco, Ruston, and Logan but that is something we are already accustomed too with places like Cheney, Greeley, Bozeman, and soon to be Cedar City and Grand Forks.
 
Yeah, the MWC is talking about SJSU joining solely based on the Bay Area media market, not based on the SJSU program success.

I dont see Sac State going FBS based on the current financial state of the state. It would be almost impossible to find additional funding and the PR generated would surely be negative when there are so many starving professors and hard knock students to support.

If UCFE or SLO go FBS w/o us might as well hang up the cleats.
 
Green Cookie Monster said:
Yeah, the MWC is talking about SJSU joining solely based on the Bay Area media market, not based on the SJSU program success.

I dont see Sac State going FBS based on the current financial state of the state. It would be almost impossible to find additional funding and the PR generated would surely be negative when there are so many starving professors and hard knock students to support.

If UCFE or SLO go FBS w/o us might as well hang up the cleats.
Click to expand...
The rumors on some of the other boards is they have already declined a WAC invite. But I agree, Sac State has to act first or it will miss the bus and at that point the clock will start ticking until Hornet football is no more.
 
Ok, new idea. This plan would require us working in partnership with SJSU. We, along with SJSU, petition to get into the Big West, then we petition Benson to allow us to be WAC football only members. I know Benson has said in the past he is open to the idea of football only members. We can keep our crappy gym (maybe renovate it substantially), be an FBS program and cut down our travel expenses. Minimal rises in cost if any. Then, maybe Poly and those other guys will get the same deal down the road. Thoughts?
 
SJHornet said:
Ok, new idea. This plan would require us working in partnership with SJSU. We, along with SJSU, petition to get into the Big West, then we petition Benson to allow us to be WAC football only members. I know Benson has said in the past he is open to the idea of football only members. We can keep our crappy gym (maybe renovate it substantially), be an FBS program and cut down our travel expenses. Minimal rises in cost if any. Then, maybe Poly and those other guys will get the same deal down the road. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

SJSU thinks their stink don't stink. They are far superior to any of us three FCS programs to even consider the topic. :roll:
 
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