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protege

Active member
I think our game may qualify

i am so sick of this, why the initial subs we were winning and had momentum, then sub orama, sub for no reason, oh I know the staff, press secretary et all, will say, we needed a certain "type" of player for this game, another BS coach line

this is sick, I know the press secretary for the administration, will all tell us how we are not that bad, things are really improving, this was a tough team, blah, blah, blah

what a crock of shit, play bay, stucki, row, meech, busma till they puke, sub casperi, stein, AK, meech NO ONE ELSE!

stucki, row dribble into doubles every game, because we have NO offense!

the players dont know whats going on half the time, someone new comes in and they dont know whats going on, than a TO - WAFJ

god I want a win, can you imagine how these players feel!
 
an offensive scheme

I have seen on atleast 5 occasions the same set on offense - I LOVE IT!

run it until it fails!

NICE WORK COACH
 
just what I was afraid of, we didnt run any offense with the game on the line, much better effort tonight, but stupid subs at the beginning, poor play by the bigs and NO strategy at the end cost us

if we can improve again as much next game, we will definitely be better by Idaho, still need offense, not having a play at the end hurt us
 
I think O'Brien needs to settle on a point guard.

Too much "PG by committee" tonight.

Stucki, Morgan, Bay?

That's at least one too many!

Stucki should be off the ball - he turns it over way too often when he tries to take his man one-on-one.

Bay has cleaned up his turnovers - I say let him run the offense, with a little Morgan added in from time to time.
 
good to see row get in on the act

love the play from Chron

liked the man 2 man 2nd half

bay is playing very well

bays defender never left him THAT IS VERY GOOD for row AND stucki
 
I personally like Bay off the ball. He does not have the ability to create his own shot and the reason his turnovers are down is because he isn't playing the 1 anymore. He's the best shooter we've got so we need to play him, but at the point I'm not a big fan.
 
baller1 said:
I personally like Bay off the ball. He does not have the ability to create his own shot and the reason his turnovers are down is because he isn't playing the 1 anymore. He's the best shooter we've got so we need to play him, but at the point I'm not a big fan.
Click to expand...

If you remember Bay early in the season, most of his turnovers came from passes that lacked enough "zip." He is making those same passes now, but they are much crisper.

As for creating his own shot, I actually think he has been doing that pretty well in recent games. He took his man off the dribble tonight down the left side for two - very nice play.

And Bay's ability to find the open man is outstanding. He is our best player running the fast break. And he passes inside to the bigs very well - too bad they can't finish! :roll:
 
I couldn't disagree with you more that Bay is our best player running the fast break. He is too slow. I'd take Morgan in the open floor any day over Bay. He has a better chance to finish, and he can dish as well. I think Bay is a decent player but it just seems that he has a lot of "groupies" on this board and I don't think he's good enough to have fans based upon his athletic ability. So I have to assume that he has friends/relatives who are here trying to pump him up.
 
Boy! I'm sure glad I'm not the "press secretary for the administration", because of the amazing skill you have Protege for "gutting" the credibility of anyone who may have had the inclination to disagree with your take on why the Bengals suck.

I was just wondering, have you ever heard of the term "constructive criticism"? I have to admit that I've never seen posts on this board quite as negative and vitriolic as yours. I don't have any dispute with your right to post as you wish, but I have to admit that your posts have me convinced that what you're not telling us is that you're really Bobby Knight. I've never been around anyone else who's quite as sure of themselves, except BK, that is.

By the way, considering the meaning of the word "protege", just whose protege are you, anyway?

As for tonight's game, I commend the coaches for their preparation for this game. It was good to have Amorrow back in his offensive groove.

Foul trouble got to us early. The refs were a show all by themselves tonight. I knew we were in trouble as soon as Nevada got away with tipping the ball on the way up at the opening tip. And of the over 1000 games I've seen, tonight was the first time I've ever seen a ref ask for help on a play, then after not getting any from other officials, he literally overruled himself and reversed his original call, taking the ball away from ISU. I'm actually glad Joe got his technical, because it wasn't until after that that at least one of the 3 refs settled down.

Looking forward to Mondays game vs. Idaho. I hope we actually have fans "supporting" ISU, rather than look for ways to trash them.

Gee, I wonder if we'll ever hear from the "press secretary for the administration" ever again, or if he (whoever it is) will cower under his bed, trying to figure out ways to find credibility again.

Go Bengals!
 
baller1, no doubt Morgan is the better athlete. But I still think Bay has better court vision. Bay certainly is no 100 meter dash champion, but he passes ahead and finds the open guy better than anyone on the team. Just my two cents here!

Morrow is a natural 2-guard. He is playing out of position at the point, in my humble opinion. Granted, he has had some nice coast-to-coast finishes this season, (and I am not saying that he shouldn't handle the rock), I just think Bay is the more natural PG.

If O'Brien wants Morgan and Bay to split time, so be it. My bigger concern is that Stucki handles the ball way too much! Keep Matt on the wing where he belongs!
 
VOTB and others vs. Protege:

I have watched this debate from afar for awhile now... I must say that protege is the only one who really talks ball on this board. The rest of you complain about the "tone" of his postings, rather than refute directly his talking points.

Obviously, this is a tight community. It almost seems like some of you share the same computer, the way you back each other up, tag-team fashion.

VOTB, you watch every game from the front row. Do you disagree that

1) Our big men are poorly coached? That they are consistently outrebounded, pushed around, can't finish around the basket (do the coaches even teach how to dunk a basketball, for chrissake?).

2) We consistently take poor shots late in the shot clock as our offense breaks down after about 15 seconds?

3) We do not look for our 3-point shooters on the wings? We don't run plays to get them open looks?

4) The substitution patterns have no rhyme or reason to them? That players are taken off the floor when they are playing well, disrupting the team's rhythm?

5) The rotation involves too many players? That we ought to go 9 deep at most?

6) We don't play good fundamental basketball on offense, utilizing the pick-and-roll, scoring on inbounds plays, sharing the basketball? That instead we have a variety of players trying to create off the dribble and turning the ball over conistently as a result? In short, NO OFFENSIVE PHILOSOPHY?

Protege simply has higher expectations than the rest of you. He wants to win, and he expects the coaching staff to do its job. When they don't, he calls them on it.

That's apparently not how things are done in Pocatello, I guess. A little too direct, not in the spirit of cooperation and community that everyone wants to feel.

Protege's great failing is that he apparently doesn't understand that "it's not what you say, it's how you say it!"

Protege, "We don't like your tone!"
 
I have 2 questions for protege.

1. This is O'Briens 3rd year. Why have you waited this long to complain? Is the offensive strategy that different this year? I ask that cause I've been a huge ISU fan since 96 but I lived in Virginia the last 2 years and only saw 1 game each year in person.

2. You seem to be a big Kal Bay fan. How would you compare him to past ISU point guards?
 
Paul Grimm:
Your post is a good one, to a degree. However, I don't think I was out of line with my characterization of Protege's "tone". He fluctuates so far from one extreme to another that sometimes he really has me confused about whether he ever likes what he sees or if he's just being sarcastic. Sometimes I feel like he should be kept away from sharp objects.

As for your points of Bengal play, at times each of your points may hold some validity, with one exception. I DO see every game from the front row, but I also go to almost every practice on the road, so I also know how the team is coached. I don't know how you could watch the Utah State game and complain about the play of our Bigs. They were 8 of 9 from the floor. And last night Luke got the ball 4 times in great floor position, and spiked all 4 shotss off the glass...shots he' ordinarily money with.

ISU runs lots of plays designed to open up the wings, but what I see is a team that goes through the motions when it comes to setting screens in those sets, most of the time.

Unless you're sitting on the bench during games, how do you know what the substitution pattern is about? The way you guys talk, the coach just draws names out of a hat at random times. How do you know someone on the floor hasn't asked for a breather? I suggest more investigation and converswation with coaches on that point.

Again, at times your points about our play hold some water, but not consistently. I also admit that we don't have a true PG, but out best offensive production, with this team, comes with Row handling the ball. Row is a 2, Kal is a 2, Matt is a 2/3, and Sherrod is still too green, although he will be good.

Are we perfect? Far from it. Are we getting better? We did last night in a lot of ways. Our D is pretty darn good.

If I'm tight with anyone, it's with this team ande coaches... All players included.

GO BENGALS!
 
VOTB, you are a fun person to talk to and I enjoy visiting with you when we have, however you are like the press secretary for the whitehouse, everything you say is framed or prefeced with protecting your leaders, thats hard to have a real basketball discussion with, I love that you do this, I wouldnt want our people in your position to be any other way, however it doesnt make for an even debate

Baller1, specifically my wife graduated from ISU 89, i used to post on the old site under a different screen name

the attempt to 'poison the well" by suggesting I am somehow a groupie of a player is lame, RE-READ my posts they ALL are about our team, our lack of offense, yet the strength of our players

bay, stucki, row, tatum I dont care I cheer for them all, I believe in them all

I however understand certain players in certain spots help us win, and I dont care what the name on the back of their jersey is, bay at the PG helps us, stucki and row are FREE to slash and drive without the double, no one can leave bay open at the 3 to double anyone on our team THAT IS GOOD! name him baller1 I dont care, just keep playing that way until it is defeated

speed has nothing to do with being a point guard, however court vision, high basketabll IQ, free throw % and ability to hit the 3 definately do, and apperantly Coach Obrien feels the same way, he noted in his post game that the line up in the second half gave him an opportunity for man 2 man defense that we havent been able to run before, thats a compliment to those players and their ability

again as I stated earlier, like it or not basketball at some point becomes a half court game, we need players in the right spots to execute that offense whatever it is, so we have a chance to win

even Robinett has finally noted, our lack of offense is killin us and in late game situations especially we dont know what we are doing, example; last night we substituted AK to set up a 3, yet stucki dribbled down court and pulled up himself, thats poor discipline, if we put AK in for the shot run the Fn play

we rely as noted by Robinett as well, and outlined by me 30 posts ago, on someone to do something fantastic to save us in the end, WE HAVE NO OFFENSE that can help, if over the next few days we get something going we WILL BE VERY DANGEROUS

do I think what I say has any hope of reaching our staff or that they would be SO LAME as to give a shit what is said on a message board, HELL NO

I post for the same reason most do, to get my feelings off my chest, THIS TEAM IS GOOD, they are better than advertised! yet they are not playing that way, end of story, dont try and make something out of nothing and dont try and stir the pot with players

in the end with this schedule and our record only 1 thing counts and that is we WIN the conference tournament, end of story, anything less is a failure, finishing top half of our conference while it will be again nice is less than motivating, we MUST win the tournament

I have countless times and even last night given the staff credit when they had it coming, but we should have won that game last night

no doubt the early TO's killed us, but note this, they came AFTER we subbed

this is a GOOD team, I will not keep stating my feeling for us, I love this group of players, I love to watch them play, I LOSE my mind when the staff makes decisions that screw that up

FEAR THE BENGAL!
 
To say that speed has nothing to do with being a good point guard is ridiculous. I promise you that in recruiting, coaches are more concerned with a point guard's athleticism than his free throw percentage.

I'm glad your wife is an ISU grad but you never answered the questions.
 
Just to post some facts:

Idaho State non-conference scoring offense in 2007-08: 56.9 points per game (the two conf. tourney games don't count in this, otherwise it is 57.9)
Idaho State non-conference scoring offense this year: 64.1 points per game

Net increase....7.2 points per game.

FWIW
ISUSID
 
Protege, I know for a fact that coaches have read from this board before as well as players..

If you look at our assists each game.. they are not that great. That's because guys have to create their own shots going one on one.... I know that we haven't bee shooting the ball well... I think Matt is leading us in assists and he has had a few games with 6 I see. Not understanding how someone could get 30 minutes one game then 8 the next.. Grasping at straws seems like to me... Of course you want to go with who is hot...
 
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