NCAA Releases Academic Progress Rates

[Skippy]

If that is the case than why would the "University of Idaho" and Coach Petrino sign 16 JUCO's and only sign 7 high school players in 2014 while on APR probation? The only reason that I can think of is that the "University of Idaho" must feel confident that these JUCO players will perform well in the classroom, will graduate, and will help the Vandals win in 2014 and 2015. If you feel that the "University of Idaho" is taking a risk based on JUCO's transfers having a lower graduation rate compared to high school recruits based on NCAA figures than that is your opinion but it is not the opinion of the "University of Idaho" and Coach Petrino as they did sign 16 JUCO's in 2014 while on APR probation. Their objective is to win immediately and to correct their APR problems.

All I have is theories but here they are: Idaho is willing to take a risk signing JUCO players because they realize they have to start winning soon in order to maintain the support they need to remain FBS. A few more 1-11 seasons and even the Sun Belt will send them packing. Idaho State, on the other hand, has chosen to take a longer term approach by building largely with freshmen. Not all freshmen,mind you -- as I have noted many times, ISU has actually recruited a few more JUCo and D1 transfers than the Big Sky average. But ISU has raised requirements for all its recruits, including JUCOs, and that has made recruiting that much tougher.

As to NCAA requirements, as noted above, if you are a non-qualifier coming out of high school, you must get your AA from a JUCO in order to get a scholarship. If you were a qualifier, you can transfer after one season.

 

[clawsout]

...at Bengal Cub..... :nod:... :nod: .... :mrgreen: .......... :rofl:

 

[PBP]

The point needs to be made again, ISU's academic requirements are higher than the other schools in the Big Sky Conference and higher than the minimum standards set by the NCAA nationally.

After the football academic situation they are taking education very, very seriously at ISU and that impacts who can be recruited and who they can go after. That's simply a fact.

And I agree with Brad, this is Idaho's last chance...they'll do almost anything to avoid the "humiliation" (LOL) of having to drop down back into the Big Sky. (Which is where they belong in the first place but I digress...)

PBP

 

[up for the challenge]

Are you sure PBP ? Where is that published ? You may be 100% correct but I have never read any articles or listened to any interviews from ISU indicating that the ISU football program has the highest academic admission standards for incoming freshmen and transfers in the Big Sky.

 

[PBP]

Up:

Yes I'm sure.

Brad has talked about this in the past as well. There are some schools in the Big Sky that frankly are basically little more than 'high schools' regarding admission standards. (And no I'm not going to name them...) There's also a reason why the Montana and Montana State presidents were opposed to ever letting Utah Valley into the conference and it wasn't because they didn't like them personally.

Academics has always mattered for most of the schools in the Big Sky (to their credit) and that's no different at ISU...but when the NCAA is ready to shut down your football program because of it, that tends to get your attention and they have ramped things up. The damage done by the previous coaching staff / players was really, really bad.

Remember standards can't just apply to the football program, they are the same across the board, involving all sports at the school.

That's why with respect, sometimes I shake my head at the repeated comments (and I'm not attacking you personally, by the way) over "bring in a boatload of JC's...bring in a bunch of drop-downs!!! That'll fix everything..."

Well no...really it won't. And it's not as easy to do with the academic standards now in play to say nothing of the fact that juco and dropdown players would actually have to WANT to come to ISU.

Mike Kramer knows what he's doing. He's a three time Big Sky coach of the year. You don't 'luck' into those. He's rebuilt programs at Eastern and at Montana State. Give him the time he needs to do what he needs to do.

I know that's not easy for fans who want a winner "now." But in the long term, some patience will produce long term success.

PBP

 

[clawsout]

.... PBP..... :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[up for the challenge]

PBP,

Again, where is the publication or article stating ISU has the highest rating for academic entrance admissions for sports in the Big Sky for incoming freshmen and transfers?

You are right PBP, Coach Kramer has done well throughout most of his career but that is not true at ISU thus far as he has only won 2 Big Sky games in 3 seasons or 2 - 22 in the Big Sky overall. Maybe, ISU is not serious about winning like the University of Idaho after going on APR probation. I forgot, we are no longer on APR probation so what is the hold up on winning two or more games in the Big Sky? I think you can shake your head to our win-loss record the last 3 seasons in the Big Sky as I have the last 3 seasons especially after getting blown out at Weber State for the final game of the season in 2013. I shook my head again during the 2014 recruiting season.

 

[pocatato]

Please stop. Please!

 

[up for the challenge]

Please stop what Pocatato? I am not talking to you. I was talking to PBP...

 

[bengalcub]

Example of how APR improvement plans hurt ISU in recruiting. ISU simply cannot sign kids the way everyone else has because of the academic get well plan that they submitted to the NCAA...

Please read:

Mackay High School graduate Kole Krosch will still wear orange when he plays college football next season. It'll just be a different shade.

The 2010 Mackay graduate will walk on at Boise State University next season after losing a scholarship at Idaho State due to the school's new academic requirements, which were implemented after the NCAA took away seven scholarships.

While Krosch is frustrated because he qualifies academically for every other NCAA program not on academic probation, he said the move to Boise State may turn out for the best.

"I think it may be a good thing," he said. "Me and my brother talked about it and it might be a blessing to go to a different program."

Krosch signed a letter of intent a year ago as part of John Zamberlin's last recruiting class at Idaho State. But he grayshirted this fall due to paperwork issues with his transcript. He was eventually declared academically eligible, but by grayshirting, he did not go on scholarship.

Then, the NCAA cracked down on Idaho State for low Academic Progress Rate (APR) scores and took away seven scholarships. Idaho State submitted a plan to the NCAA to get those scholarships back that stated all future recruits will need a 2.5 GPA in their core academic classes and a minimum of an 18 in both the math and English portions of the ACT, or the SAT equivalent. Both of those requirements are well above the NCAA minimum.

But because Krosh grayshirted, he was technically a new recruit for the 2011 class and was subjected to the new requirements. He just missed the ACT test score goal.

He could still walk on at Idaho State, but left with the choice to walk on at Idaho State or Boise State, he chose the big-time program.

"I already talked to (special teams coach Jeff) Choate, and he told me to come down in spring ball, check out everything, meet all the coaches," Krosch said. ""And then, if I like it, I'll be able to start in the summer.""

Idaho State athletic director Jeff Tingey can not comment on a student's academics. But he said the high bar the school has set for its recruits is to show the NCAA it is taking its academic progress scores seriously.

"We'd like to do so well that they give us back all seven (scholarships) in one year," Tingey said. "We want to able to say, 'Look at the changes we've made, look at the requirements we've put in.' "

 

[spartan]

NOT up for the challenge...

1. there are still at least 2 people posting under your user name... by the writing styles and 'voices' used possibly 3...one of you please grow a pair and post for yourself or better yet both (all three?) go away

2. this is the interweb ... if you post on an open forum you should expect comments from any and all... if you'd like to have a private 'conversation' with someone.... send them a private message ... or get a friend..

(2.1 do your own homework if you want links to information about apr, etc)

3. you are a one trick pony, an echo chamber, have only one song to play.... that's a sign of limited intelligence - if you are a special needs individual, my apologies - if not - you're just an irritating ass monkey with a flat line for a learning curve who can't or wont change the subject

4. please find something else to bitch about - WE GET IT - you don't like kramer...

 

[letuknow]

ISU has a MINIMUM 2.75 GPA requirement for all JC transfers. The 2.75 has to be met in the core classes(Math, English,and Science. Every other team in the Big Sky Conference is able to recruit a 1.7 GPA JC athlete. This is a HUGE I repeat HUGE DISADVANTAGE when it comes to recruiting and overall football records. If you can't comprehend this than you either lack intelligence or just don't understand football.

 

[up for the challenge]

The NCAA minimum requirement for a JUCO athlete to transfer to a D-1 college is a 2.5 GPA in transferrable units for both a non-qualifier and a qualifier. What is the minimum requirement or GPA for JUCO's athletes qualifying at ISU ?

 

[PBP]

Up:

I think letuknow just posted that in the comment directly above yours.

By the way thanks to bengalcub, and letuknow for providing stories and comments that outline the new ISU academic guidelines.

It shows pretty clearly that ISU because of circumstances is taking an even more thoughtful approach when it comes to staying out of future academic issues and that contrary to what some think it's not that easy to just go out and sign a bunch of JUCO's and dropdowns to win immediately.

That may not be fair when compared to the other schools in the Big Sky particularly when compared to a few schools that take just about anybody, but that's the reality of the situation and it's not going to change in the immediate or near future.

PBP

 

[letuknow]

Here are the latest updated JC requirements:

Academic qualifiers must have a 2.0 cumulative GPA and attend 1 semester
Non qualifiers must have a 2.0 GPA and graduate from the JC

AGAIN ISU REQUIRES a 2.75 GPA in CORE classes which are Math,English, Science. This means many JC athletes can take ELECTIVE courses(NOT MAth, English, and Science) and get into the majority of Universities and especially Big Sky schools.

 

[letuknow]

The NCAA minimum requirement for a victory with a JUCO is to score more points than the other team for both a non-qualifier and a qualifier. What is the minimum requirement for victory with JUCO's athletes qualifying at ISU ? :rofl: :dead:

 

[tuffgong]

I really appreciate spartan & bengalcub's comments above ^^.. One needs to look deeper for the real reason of our poor product on the field. But I believe year by year it's getting better and we are to the point of respectability in our current status. Hoping for 5-6 wins this year!

 

[up for the challenge]

PBP,

Letuknow is a little confused about the JUCO transfers academic eligibility requirements to a D-1 school.

Up until 2013, JC students had to:
maintain a 2.0 grade point average
6 hours of English
3 hours of Math
48 hours that make up an associate's degree

Under new NCAA rules, effective August 1, 2012, to transfer into an NCAA school and play at D-1, JC students must:
maintain a 2.5 grade point average
6 hours of English
3 hours of Math
3 hours of Science
no more than 2 hours of Physical Activity credits
48 hours that make up an associate's degree

I would say that most JUCO qualifiers meet ISU academic requirements but it does not really matter because Coach Kramer does not actively recruit JUCO players or connect with JUCO head coaches. The college coaches that connect with JUCO's have a relationship just like SAC State, Northern Arizona, Portland State, and others who beat us every year. ISU will be lucky to win 2 games in the Big Sky this season and that has not happened yet the last 3 seasons.

 

[pocatato]

Please, everyone, do not respond to this last post. Concede that up has won the argument and that junior college transfers bring instant credibility and success. He will not stop until we acknowledge that he is absolutely correct on this point. Do not argue that our Bengals will win more than two games this year or that Coach Kramer is on the edge of turning the program around with qualifying high school graduates. Please resist the urge to reply.

 

[up for the challenge]

That is a cop out Pocatato.

Who is going to replace our starting QB or Arias if he is unavailable to play? A redshirt freshmen that has not played a single down in college football?

Our most experienced WR is a redshirt sophomore. I doubt our WR's will play like veteran players in 2014 as they are unexperienced and young.

Can you imagine being a player on the team and losing almost every game every season since your freshmen year? No fun... especially for the seniors and senior day.

Coach Kramer had a great opportunity to do something special for the 2014 recruiting season and that did not happen as of today.