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NCAA Reports on Postseason Bans

In that article there was no mention of PSU football, only basketball. Where do you read football being hit? As for basketball, I hope Geving pays more attention to grades than Bone seems to have. Fact is, it all takes money, as the article makes clear. Our teams have average academic abilities, no less so than most other teams. What they don't get are special study sessions, tutors etc. As I say, it takes money.
 
Football is also talked about in this article. I really like Coach Bone, but he is directly responsible for this situation. Unfortunately, for Geving he is going to have to get Portland State out of this cycle in a hurry.
Not good news!

Portland State men's basketball team faces harsh NCAA sanctions for poor academic progress; programs at Oregon, Oregon State, Portland fare better

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/05/portland_state_mens_basketball.html
 
pdxfan said:
What they don't get are special study sessions, tutors etc.
Click to expand...
Sure they do. But this doesn't mean that the athletes are not responsible for their own academic progress. It's not like AD forces the players to practice 24/7.
 
martymoose said:
This is really bad.

Wonder if this is why Coston is gone since we'll be losing a scholarship next year.
Click to expand...

Losing is ridiculous! This will directly kill the APR. Not graduating students kills the APR. No way they should be taking a scholarship away from Coston.
 
Others affecting APR include Ryan Sommer, Wendall Wright, Alex Tiefenthaler, etc.

Players leaving the system without graduating kill the APR. We shouldn't let kids into the program unless we are assured they will graduate.
 
pdxfan said:
In that article there was no mention of PSU football, only basketball. Where do you read football being hit? As for basketball, I hope Geving pays more attention to grades than Bone seems to have. Fact is, it all takes money, as the article makes clear. Our teams have average academic abilities, no less so than most other teams. What they don't get are special study sessions, tutors etc. As I say, it takes money.
Click to expand...

The NCAA is taking away 3.3 football scholarships. Apparently it doesn't affect us since we can't offer the NCAA maximum anyway. But that is not a good reason. We shouldn't be penalized at all.
 
Hmmmm. The women's basketball, volleyball, and softball teams perrenially have no problem with APRs. Seems like a lot of them are going pre-med. Meaning that the women don't have pie in the sky hopes of a million dollar professional contract to distract them? Wonder why that is.
 
Without a doubt, Bone and his staff neglected academics. Being aloof and out of touch with his players does not build a good academic atmosphere. It Bone can't relate to student athletes, he needs assistants that do, and by and large this was missing as well. A coach (and his staff) need to be in tune with what is going on with their players. Recruiting is one thing, but you need 4 years of follow-up on the sotries you tell, or the student-athletes soon figure you out.
 
I've tried to read all I can to read about how this is calculated, but I still have a feeling that I don't have it all figured out.

How do you see these requirements?

A) These rules are very reasonable and fair, and the Viks need to get their hoops program in order.

B) The way this thing is written is unreasonable, we don't really have a fair chance of being above 925.

C) It's our fault that we didn't meet these requirements, but the unfair thing is that the kids remaining on the team are the ones being punished for other kids leaving the program.

I hope the true answer is A, but I know often times rules or laws are written in a way that sound fair to the general public, but have so many hidden consequences that we never get to see.
 
jas said:
I've tried to read all I can to read about how this is calculated, but I still have a feeling that I don't have it all figured out.

How do you see these requirements?

A) These rules are very reasonable and fair, and the Viks need to get their hoops program in order.

B) The way this thing is written is unreasonable, we don't really have a fair chance of being above 925.

C) It's our fault that we didn't meet these requirements, but the unfair thing is that the kids remaining on the team are the ones being punished for other kids leaving the program.

I hope the true answer is A, but I know often times rules or laws are written in a way that sound fair to the general public, but have so many hidden consequences that we never get to see.
Click to expand...

I vote C. The kids on the team now should be held to high standards academically. However, there is no reason for PSU to be punished for kids who transfer (or for a school like UCONN to be punished if kids go to the NBA). Non-athlete students transfer or drop out all the time and it doesn't mean the school has done anything wrong. Many times, kids just want to be closer to home, or they want to attend another school that happens to have a better program for the major. What upsets me about the coverage of this story is that it implies that PSU has a low APR because it recruits poor students. This is not necessarily the case if you understand how APR is measured.
 
You're right. Most if not all readers assume that GPAs are the reason for the penalties, not transfering or... I'd certainly like to see the GPAs of all the teams. Or even the average team GPA. As far as I know no one is on probation, at least. The GPA is probably no different than the PSU average.
 
pdxfan said:
You're right. Most if not all readers assume that GPAs are the reason for the penalties, not transfering or... I'd certainly like to see the GPAs of all the teams. Or even the average team GPA. As far as I know no one is on probation, at least. The GPA is probably no different than the PSU average.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. I think that most assume GPA is the big issue, when it probably isn't the issue. I'd like to see the team GPA. It's the guys that transfer out and don't finish is what kills us.
 
Geving knew PSU was in trouble, and says he'll help Vikings dig out of it, too

http://www.oregonlive.com/vikings/index.ssf/2009/05/geving_knew_psu_was_in_trouble.html

When Portland State assistant Tyler Geving sought and landed the chance to succeed departed men's basketball coach Ken Bone, he knew he was inheriting a program in trouble.

Trouble on the academic front.

Even before Bone accepted the Washington State job, word had gotten around the PSU offices that the Vikings were about to take a hit from the NCAA for the program's deficiencies in the classroom and its low graduation rate.

That would mean loss of scholarships and a cut in maximum practice time, which both can be crippling for major programs.

So, Geving knew what he was getting into -- and what he would have to get out of.

"We as coaches need to do a better job of evaluating who we're bringing in and making sure that academics are a priority to them," Geving said. "I don't think that you can point the finger at just one person or thing for this whole situation.

"The coaches have to hold the players more accountable, and the players have to want to get their degree. It has to mean something to them. And our academic support group has to do a better job. ... There's a lot of blame to go around, but we also have an opportunity to fix it."

The PSU men's basketball program posted an Academic Progress Rate of 867, falling well below the NCAA's benchmark score of 925 for the second consecutive year. As a result, the NCAA penalized the Vikings, limiting them to 11 scholarships instead of 13, and only 16 hours of team activity per week instead of 20.

"Obviously, this is going to have a little bit of an impact," said Geving of his team that has made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances. "With 11 scholarships, we should still be able to compete at a high level. We've done it before with fewer."

Two years ago, when the Vikings won the Big Sky Conference championship and played in the NCAA Tournament for the first time, they had 13 scholarship players. But three of the players -- Jamie Jones, Phil Nelson and Dominic Waters -- weren't eligible because of NCAA transfer rules, and Dupree Lucas missed more than half the season because of injury, so the Vikings dominated that season on the strength of nine scholarship players.

Geving said the Vikings also would have no problem adjusting to the reduced practice time.

"It's going to have a little bit on an impact on us," Geving said. "I'm not naive (enough) to think it's not, but we still have enough good players to be successful, and we still have enough hours in the practice day to be successful, as well."

To build up the program, the Vikings took some chances on players that were academic risks. And while the program has improved in the win-loss column, the departure of several stars and scrubs alike before they got within shouting distance of a diploma have dealt the most severe blows to the team's APR.

And the hits keep coming, with four scholarship players from last year's team leaving the program since the departure of Bone, who could not be reached for comment.

Freshman forward Wendall Wright dropped out of school and returned home to Lakewood, Calif., junior center Donatas Visockis is looking to transfer to a junior college, and junior forwards Kyle Coston and Tyrell Mara both plan to transfer to Trinity Western University in Langley, B.C.

From an APR standpoint, Mara's loss is mitigated by the fact that he is expected to graduated from PSU at the end of this term. Mara, who appeared in 90 games over three seasons at PSU, also has a chance to play for his former high school coach and earn an additional year of eligibility under Canadian collegiate rules, while working toward a master's degree.

Losing Coston, Visockis and Wright, though, hurts the program, and could be a drag on the team's APR for several years to come.

Although Visockis and Wright weren't key players last season, Coston, a 6-foot-8, 210-pound forward, started 31 games and averaged 6.2 points and 3.4 rebounds last season. He hopes to play at the pro level as a shooting guard, so he wants to take a year off to work on his game, and then use the additional year of eligibility he'll gain in Canada to help him achieve that goal.

"We wish Kyle the best," Geving said, "There's a good example of a kid that's a good student who's leaving and we're going to get penalized for it."

At the same time, the Vikings have a few former players who are continuing to work toward their degrees, which could turn into favorable points. Those points might not be enough to push the team's APR to 925, but the Vikings' goal now is to at least show the NCAA that they are heading in the right direction.

"I think the perception is that we've sitting around as coaches and we don't care if the guys go to class or not. That's not the case," Geving said. "I don't think people realize sometimes how many hours we spend with our guys on their academics, but maybe what we were doing wasn't enough.

"I look at it this way: We're going to clean up the mess. Even in recruiting, that's something that is going to be important to me and is going to be at the top of the priority list as I sell our program to kids and their parents.

"I think we'll be all right. Am I concerned? Yes, I'm concerned, but I'm also confident in the guys we have this year, and I'm confident that we're all going to work together and make it better, because it can't be the same. Something has to change."
Note: Portland State has signed Phillip Thomas, a 6-8, 240-pound forward, to a letter of intent. Thomas, who averaged 9.3 points and 3.6 rebounds last season at College of Eastern Utah, will be a junior in 2009-10.
 
forestgreen said:
Geving knew PSU was in trouble, and says he'll help Vikings dig out of it, too

http://www.oregonlive.com/vikings/index.ssf/2009/05/geving_knew_psu_was_in_trouble.html

When Portland State assistant Tyler Geving sought and landed the chance to succeed departed men's basketball coach Ken Bone, he knew he was inheriting a program in trouble.

Trouble on the academic front.

Even before Bone accepted the Washington State job, word had gotten around the PSU offices that the Vikings were about to take a hit from the NCAA for the program's deficiencies in the classroom and its low graduation rate.

That would mean loss of scholarships and a cut in maximum practice time, which both can be crippling for major programs.

So, Geving knew what he was getting into -- and what he would have to get out of.

"We as coaches need to do a better job of evaluating who we're bringing in and making sure that academics are a priority to them," Geving said. "I don't think that you can point the finger at just one person or thing for this whole situation.

"The coaches have to hold the players more accountable, and the players have to want to get their degree. It has to mean something to them. And our academic support group has to do a better job. ... There's a lot of blame to go around, but we also have an opportunity to fix it."

The PSU men's basketball program posted an Academic Progress Rate of 867, falling well below the NCAA's benchmark score of 925 for the second consecutive year. As a result, the NCAA penalized the Vikings, limiting them to 11 scholarships instead of 13, and only 16 hours of team activity per week instead of 20.

"Obviously, this is going to have a little bit of an impact," said Geving of his team that has made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances. "With 11 scholarships, we should still be able to compete at a high level. We've done it before with fewer."

Two years ago, when the Vikings won the Big Sky Conference championship and played in the NCAA Tournament for the first time, they had 13 scholarship players. But three of the players -- Jamie Jones, Phil Nelson and Dominic Waters -- weren't eligible because of NCAA transfer rules, and Dupree Lucas missed more than half the season because of injury, so the Vikings dominated that season on the strength of nine scholarship players.

Geving said the Vikings also would have no problem adjusting to the reduced practice time.

"It's going to have a little bit on an impact on us," Geving said. "I'm not naive (enough) to think it's not, but we still have enough good players to be successful, and we still have enough hours in the practice day to be successful, as well."

To build up the program, the Vikings took some chances on players that were academic risks. And while the program has improved in the win-loss column, the departure of several stars and scrubs alike before they got within shouting distance of a diploma have dealt the most severe blows to the team's APR.

And the hits keep coming, with four scholarship players from last year's team leaving the program since the departure of Bone, who could not be reached for comment.

Freshman forward Wendall Wright dropped out of school and returned home to Lakewood, Calif., junior center Donatas Visockis is looking to transfer to a junior college, and junior forwards Kyle Coston and Tyrell Mara both plan to transfer to Trinity Western University in Langley, B.C.

From an APR standpoint, Mara's loss is mitigated by the fact that he is expected to graduated from PSU at the end of this term. Mara, who appeared in 90 games over three seasons at PSU, also has a chance to play for his former high school coach and earn an additional year of eligibility under Canadian collegiate rules, while working toward a master's degree.

Losing Coston, Visockis and Wright, though, hurts the program, and could be a drag on the team's APR for several years to come.

Although Visockis and Wright weren't key players last season, Coston, a 6-foot-8, 210-pound forward, started 31 games and averaged 6.2 points and 3.4 rebounds last season. He hopes to play at the pro level as a shooting guard, so he wants to take a year off to work on his game, and then use the additional year of eligibility he'll gain in Canada to help him achieve that goal.

"We wish Kyle the best," Geving said, "There's a good example of a kid that's a good student who's leaving and we're going to get penalized for it."

At the same time, the Vikings have a few former players who are continuing to work toward their degrees, which could turn into favorable points. Those points might not be enough to push the team's APR to 925, but the Vikings' goal now is to at least show the NCAA that they are heading in the right direction.

"I think the perception is that we've sitting around as coaches and we don't care if the guys go to class or not. That's not the case," Geving said. "I don't think people realize sometimes how many hours we spend with our guys on their academics, but maybe what we were doing wasn't enough.

"I look at it this way: We're going to clean up the mess. Even in recruiting, that's something that is going to be important to me and is going to be at the top of the priority list as I sell our program to kids and their parents.

"I think we'll be all right. Am I concerned? Yes, I'm concerned, but I'm also confident in the guys we have this year, and I'm confident that we're all going to work together and make it better, because it can't be the same. Something has to change."
Note: Portland State has signed Phillip Thomas, a 6-8, 240-pound forward, to a letter of intent. Thomas, who averaged 9.3 points and 3.6 rebounds last season at College of Eastern Utah, will be a junior in 2009-10.
Click to expand...

Are we still at 11 or back at 13?

Curious how APR is.
 
Ugh.

Possible post season ban? Not good.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2010/06/canzano_portland_state_faces_n.html
 
Canzano: Portland State faces NCAA's academic snare, while bigger schools avoid penalties

By John Canzano, The Oregonian

June 02, 2010, 7:20PM

The Associated Press PSU coach Ken Bone watches as his team loses to Xavier 77-59 during a first-round NCAA Tournament game in 2009. It was his last game at Portland State.The Portland State men's basketball program expects to be hammered by the NCAA next week with a one-year postseason ban for a failure to make sufficient academic progress.

There's the matter of an appeal. And maybe the people charged with policing the NCAA's annual Academic Progress Rate report will show mercy on the Vikings, who underwent a coaching change after the 2008-09 season. But the numbers don't lie, and so there's a fair bit of tension on the Park Blocks.

"Once you get into a hole," athletic director Torre Chisholm said, "it's hard to climb out."

Blame athletes who dropped out after their eligibility expired. Blame former coach Ken Bone, who took some high-risk players. Blame, too, low-level Division I players who left college without getting a degree because they were chasing a professional career overseas.

But first, blame this blasted APR system.

It was designed with good intentions, awarding schools points for each year athletes make progress toward a degree and for athletes who graduate. The complex system was supposed to eradicate the "football factory" or "basketball factory" that operated amid major college programs. Athletic directors at mid-majors hoped this might level the playing field, just a little.

Instead, it's mostly punished non-Bowl Championship Series colleges.

Understand, 107 schools were penalized by the NCAA in 2009 with sanctions that resulted from the APR. Among those, 93 were non-BCS conference colleges. Also, of the 30 programs, including PSU, that were warned that sanctions if there weren't improvements in 2010, none came from BCS conferences.

A closer look reveals a bigger issue. Because only 14 of the 73 BCS colleges were penalized (19.1 percent) to 93 of the 257 non-BCS programs (36.2 percent). Non-BCS programs were nearly twice as likely to be penalized as BCS conference members.

The schools outside the power conferences draw from a riskier pool of student-athletes. But that only tells a small piece of what we're seeing. Because BCS-conference schools have deeper resources, and were able to more successfully adapt to a system that rewarded colleges for guiding post-eligibility athletes to a college degree.

The NCAA is right to encourage schools to make sure their athletes are students, too. And Portland State deserves some consequence for its academic under-performance under Bone. But the APR isn't fair.

PSU responded to the APR system by spending $350,000 on new academic resources. Portland State hired two new academic advisors. It restructured it's summer-school funding for athletes. It pushed resources into post-eligibility tutoring and advising.

"Those weren't funds we had lying around," Chisholm said.

The Vikings restructured their fee support from the university, begged the student body for increased student funding, and stretched the athletic department staff more thinly. And all of this resulted in the university looking motivated, but unable to overcome the hole it was placed in after Bone left, and too many of his ex-players didn't graduate.

PSU ends up as a slow-moving target if the NCAA is going to make a lack of resources a focus point. And the APR has done just that, while giving a pass to high-profile places with deep pockets that can afford to overcome the factory stigma using an arsenal of tutors and advisors to keep the post-eligibility crowd more interested.

All the loopholes favor the big-time programs.

Three freshmen leave Kentucky after one year to go to the NBA, and the Wildcats likely will not be penalized under the current APR system because they are expected to get a guaranteed professional contract. But should one of the Vikings players leave PSU, seeking employment in Europe after one season, and fail to stick, PSU takes a "non-retention" hit.

Take a look at the BCS vs. non-BCS schools and you see vast disparities in budgets, resources, and expectations. But the NCAA wants to judge them with the same academic criteria? As if the student-athletes at PSU have access to elaborate student-learning centers? As if dropping out of PSU to chase a professional basketball dream should be viewed differently than an early-entry hopeful bolting college for the NBA?

PSU is a good bet to take a big hit next week. The low APR score has nothing to do with the current program. Barring a miracle appeal, the sanctions are likely to include a one-year postseason ban for Portland State.

Hearing that won't scare anyone at Kentucky.

-- John Canzano
 
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