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Phenicie’s New Contract
- Thread starter Skippy
- Start date
otis campbell
Active member
Just the thought...migraine! Lights down, noise down, heavy duty opioids up NOW! :lol: :lol: :lol:
up for the challenge
Active member
otis campbell said:
The offense will be good in 2018. Special teams will be good too. If coach Phen can improve the defensive secondary in 2018 the Bengals should win more games. A solid defense in 2018 could mean contending. We will see.
otis campbell
Active member
Agreed, this time next year. I lived the Phenicie days at WaGriz. That's what makes me more than just skeptical. Fuse that with the years I lived in Pokey as a adopted Bengal fan, maybe you can understand my pessimism.
up for the challenge
Active member
otis campbell said:
I just want to see us win 500% of the games or better the next 3 years or longer for a change. I do not know if possible but with an improved defense it can happen. I think everybody is saying the defense has to be improved in 2018. If not, it will be hard to win games. That is why I said take a chance and go out and get some good JUCO defensive players in the secondary that can compete with the current secondary on the team. May the best men win the starting positions. Some posters do not like the idea of JUCO's coming into the program. To me, if the JUCOs have the grades and classes in place to transfer and have the skills to play in the BSC than I say give them a chance to see what they can do right away without waiting three years down the road to play.
[/quote] I just want to see us win 500% of the games or better the next 3 years or longer for a change. I do not know if possible but with an improved defense it can happen. I think everybody is saying the defense has to be improved in 2018. If not, it will be hard to win games. That is why I said take a chance and go out and get some good JUCO defensive players in the secondary that can compete with the current secondary on the team. May the best men win the starting positions. Some posters do not like the idea of JUCO's coming into the program. To me, if the JUCOs have the grades and classes in place to transfer and have the skills to play in the BSC than I say give them a chance to see what they can do right away without waiting three years down the road to play.[/quote]
Just so you know over the last several years ISU has recruited and signed some JUCO DB's. Overall that hasn't worked. Not saying it is completely on the JUCO guys they signed but it was hoped that at least some of them would have made an impact. Unfortunately they did not.
I don't remember off the top of my head since it is now basketball season, but I think there were one or two on the roster this past season for example. Specifically in the defensive backfield.
JUCO's Up, are not the "be all / end all" that you seem to think they are...and remember, they good one's, the best one's aren't coming to ISU anyway.
PBP
Just so you know over the last several years ISU has recruited and signed some JUCO DB's. Overall that hasn't worked. Not saying it is completely on the JUCO guys they signed but it was hoped that at least some of them would have made an impact. Unfortunately they did not.
I don't remember off the top of my head since it is now basketball season, but I think there were one or two on the roster this past season for example. Specifically in the defensive backfield.
JUCO's Up, are not the "be all / end all" that you seem to think they are...and remember, they good one's, the best one's aren't coming to ISU anyway.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
I just want to see us win 500% of the games or better the next 3 years or longer for a change. I do not know if possible but with an improved defense it can happen. I think everybody is saying the defense has to be improved in 2018. If not, it will be hard to win games. That is why I said take a chance and go out and get some good JUCO defensive players in the secondary that can compete with the current secondary on the team. May the best men win the starting positions. Some posters do not like the idea of JUCO's coming into the program. To me, if the JUCOs have the grades and classes in place to transfer and have the skills to play in the BSC than I say give them a chance to see what they can do right away without waiting three years down the road to play.[/quote]
Just so you know over the last several years ISU has recruited and signed some JUCO DB's. Overall that hasn't worked. Not saying it is completely on the JUCO guys they signed but it was hoped that at least some of them would have made an impact. Unfortunately they did not.
I don't remember off the top of my head since it is now basketball season, but I think there were one or two on the roster this past season for example. Specifically in the defensive backfield.
JUCO's Up, are not the "be all / end all" that you seem to think they are...and remember, they good one's, the best one's aren't coming to ISU anyway.
PBP
[/quote]
Do you know why the best JUCOs are not coming to ISU ?
1). The past staff did not connect with head JUCO coaches or players too much.
2). Other Big Sky head coaches have established a connection with JUCO head coaches therefore a funnel from JUCOs into their program when there is a need.
Just so you know over the last several years ISU has recruited and signed some JUCO DB's. Overall that hasn't worked. Not saying it is completely on the JUCO guys they signed but it was hoped that at least some of them would have made an impact. Unfortunately they did not.
I don't remember off the top of my head since it is now basketball season, but I think there were one or two on the roster this past season for example. Specifically in the defensive backfield.
JUCO's Up, are not the "be all / end all" that you seem to think they are...and remember, they good one's, the best one's aren't coming to ISU anyway.
PBP
[/quote]
Do you know why the best JUCOs are not coming to ISU ?
1). The past staff did not connect with head JUCO coaches or players too much.
2). Other Big Sky head coaches have established a connection with JUCO head coaches therefore a funnel from JUCOs into their program when there is a need.
Up:
The best JUCO's aren't going to ISU or Sac. State or Eastern or any other program in the Big Sky. The JUCO's who are "game changers" go to places like Ohio State, Utah, Alabama, West Virginia and their ilk. They go to Power 5 programs...not the Big Sky is what I was trying to say. I apologize for not making it clearer.
I'll give you this, you have consistently been on the JUCO bandwagon. The power's that be however, the ones actually in charge of running for football operation, for good or bad, feel differently and you shouldn't expect that to change.
And I am curious about one aspect of your belief, how many JUCO's a year, in your opinion should ISU be signing? I understand that they have a different number of openings from year to year, but in general how many on average would make you happy? 4? 7?? 10??? Just wondering.
PBP
The best JUCO's aren't going to ISU or Sac. State or Eastern or any other program in the Big Sky. The JUCO's who are "game changers" go to places like Ohio State, Utah, Alabama, West Virginia and their ilk. They go to Power 5 programs...not the Big Sky is what I was trying to say. I apologize for not making it clearer.
I'll give you this, you have consistently been on the JUCO bandwagon. The power's that be however, the ones actually in charge of running for football operation, for good or bad, feel differently and you shouldn't expect that to change.
And I am curious about one aspect of your belief, how many JUCO's a year, in your opinion should ISU be signing? I understand that they have a different number of openings from year to year, but in general how many on average would make you happy? 4? 7?? 10??? Just wondering.
PBP
otis campbell
Active member
During the JMU semi-final playoff game, it was mentioned that JMU relies heavily on JUCOs and drop downs. Seems like a good way to go from the poor house to the penthouse, and vice versa.
otis campbell said:
Otis:
It certainly is one way to do it. Of course it takes two to tango and the athlete has to be interested in your program. Drop downs seem to congregate in the BSC to places like Montana (has had them for years) and the schools on the West Coast.
And that's a good point about it working both ways. If you start to rely on JUCO's you have to keep getting them...every two years. If something happens to break that chain you're in trouble for a few years because you may not have anybody experienced to replace them.
otis campbell
Active member
Agreed. Short of a lengthy explanation of my post, I used a short metaphor. Double edged sword. Live by it, die by it. JMU could drop off the radar next year. A good program doesn't rebuild, it reloads.
up for the challenge
Active member
PBP - I have never said the majority of the recruits need to be JUCOs. What I am saying is ISU football should start connecting with JUCO head coaches to build a recruiting relationship. When ISU comes calling the JUCO head coach may tell their player of interest that ISU is a place of consideration rather than saying I do not know anything about ISU. To answer your question about how many JUCO players that is up to the coaching staff as they are ones that have to show a winning season every season. JUCO players are At Need players where there is a need and can come into the program with playing experience and contribute right away. The majority of the recruits should come from high school programs. As I have mentioned it would appear that SUU has connections with JUCO's as they have had some all BSC players especially at the DBs positions. They seem to do pretty well year in and year out. Why is there program so good? There head coach is going into his third year I believe.
Two reasons to partially explain SUU's success. They are close to the Vegas market and there's a lot of talent around there. Second there are no other schools in the immediate area save for No. Arizona to recruit against.
Compare that to ISU which has something like 6-8 football schools within a six hour drive in all directions if I'm remembering correctly.
Not a criticism, you are entitled to your opinions but you've been beating the drum on JUCO's and dropdowns for a long time. The facts show that those players for whatever reason or reasons do not come to ISU in the numbers or ability that you think will turn the program around. ISU's staffs, correctly in my opinion, feel that four year players are more likely to achieve long term success.
PBP
Compare that to ISU which has something like 6-8 football schools within a six hour drive in all directions if I'm remembering correctly.
Not a criticism, you are entitled to your opinions but you've been beating the drum on JUCO's and dropdowns for a long time. The facts show that those players for whatever reason or reasons do not come to ISU in the numbers or ability that you think will turn the program around. ISU's staffs, correctly in my opinion, feel that four year players are more likely to achieve long term success.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
PBP - you tell me how ISU program will become a .500 or better team year in year out starting in 2018? If you do not believe in At Need players that is ok. Kramer did not believe that was the answer too and we all saw the W/l results over the years with mostly high school players and walkons getting most of the scholarships. Coach Phen was hired to win games, right? He will recruit and sign the players he wants to win games in 2018. If he cannot win at this level he will eventually be replaced too. It is a business.
up for the challenge said:
Well for what it's worth, as of now Up, he's signed two JUCO's. Which may or may not say something about the current staffs philosophy in that regard. Two out of nine. And I've already shared what I was told by someone regarding the 'JUCO factor' with this staff again for whatever that may be worth at this point in time. That could change in the spring, we'll see.
I hope ISU can be a better than .500 team in 2018. Is it probable with their schedule? Don't know. What I can say is that like it or not, it is going to take time. Probably three years of building with or without JUCO's.
I understand asking for more patience is hard for a fan base that has gone through the last 40+ years of futility. But to me, just my opinion, that is the only choice.
You may get real lucky and score something big with a bunch of JUCO's (specifically to this discussion) and when they all leave in two years? Can you do it again?? The odds are you can't (not without cheating).
To me the way to go is to build a good solid program based of four year kids and give them the time to learn and develop into good FCS players. Kramer was right, it takes a lot of time. Very few freshman can make that significant an impact on a game or a program.
By the way, for those who don't know, here is ISU's schedule for next year. The road games in particular are going to be difficult to get to and against tough (in most cases) opposition:
Week 1 Sep. 1 Western State
Week 2 Sep. 8
Week 3 Sep. 15 @ CAL
Week 4 Sep. 22 @North Dakota
Week 5 Sep. 29 NAU
Week 6 Oct. 6 Idaho
Week 7 Oct. 13 @UC Davis
Week 8 Oct. 20 @Liberty
Week 9 Oct. 27 Montana State
Week 10 Nov. 3 @Portland State
Week 11 Nov. 10 @Cal Poly
Week 12 Nov. 17 Weber State
The bye week is week #2, then it's 10 straight weeks of games. Bad draw for ISU from that standpoint. I'm sure they'd prefer something closer to the middle of the season.
The back to back games in October from one coast to the other is worth noting...as is the fact that again they draw a stretch of four road games in five weeks along with two money-games.
Injuries will also play a large factor in how the season turns out, it always does. At this level any injury to a key player can derail a year. The BSC isn't Alabama where the 4th string offensive tackle can start for most teams in America.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
Ok. thank you for your opinion and discussions. I am hopeful like most fans. By the way, Alabama got lucky at #4. Ohio State should be at #4 but that is another topic.
isusuperfan
Active member
up for the challenge said:
I also agree with that sentiment
but let's be honest--ESPN, with a $3.1 billion-dollar contract with the SEC Network, was naturally going to shoot for two SEC teams in the CFP.That said, some of these road games look tempting to travel to. I may have to set some money aside for a trip to Lynchburg when we play at Liberty in October. And of course, I'm REALLY looking forward to that magical October 6th date!
Juco recruiting so far looks good for 2018
Christian McFarland looks like a STUD at safety.
Preston Hoffelholtz (i am probably off on spelling) at O-Line looks nice
Another O-Line guy committed to us but wasn’t announced as a signing on 12/20 but there was a notation that two other players did IN FACT SIGN but will be announced in February I think that o-line juco guy who signed was from an Arizona JC team.
Those are 3 Juco guys at what would be called AT NEED POSITIONS.
Plus we have Pia Moala (juco) returning next season as a returning starter at LB from a JUCO. And Goggins (juco) at QB for depth
Our last two recruiting classes DID NOT HAVE MANY SCHOLARSHIPS available so I think the staff did a great job these last two years incorporating all recruiting aspects in regards to HS players (which we all track), FBS drop downs (Yancy at RB & kick/punt returner and Amos as 2nd string QB and who the staff appears to have deemed as QB of future), plus LDS mission guys. I think that is a great job of filling rosters the last two seasons by Kramer and Phen under VERY limited scholarship availability. What more can we ask for?
Christian McFarland looks like a STUD at safety.
Preston Hoffelholtz (i am probably off on spelling) at O-Line looks nice
Another O-Line guy committed to us but wasn’t announced as a signing on 12/20 but there was a notation that two other players did IN FACT SIGN but will be announced in February I think that o-line juco guy who signed was from an Arizona JC team.
Those are 3 Juco guys at what would be called AT NEED POSITIONS.
Plus we have Pia Moala (juco) returning next season as a returning starter at LB from a JUCO. And Goggins (juco) at QB for depth
Our last two recruiting classes DID NOT HAVE MANY SCHOLARSHIPS available so I think the staff did a great job these last two years incorporating all recruiting aspects in regards to HS players (which we all track), FBS drop downs (Yancy at RB & kick/punt returner and Amos as 2nd string QB and who the staff appears to have deemed as QB of future), plus LDS mission guys. I think that is a great job of filling rosters the last two seasons by Kramer and Phen under VERY limited scholarship availability. What more can we ask for?
Looking at our current roster I count 17 guys who were juniors last season on our roster who appear to be seniors next season. So that could potentially mean we have 17 scholarships available for 2019. In my count of 17 juniors I listed I also afforded the fact that a few of those juniors listed on roster may have redshirted this past season meaning they WILL NOT be seniors this next season like Jayson Miller and Kory Garcia who appear to have redshirted this season plus a punter (Sean Cheney who I have no clue if he’s a full scholarship guy). 17 scholarships available in 2019 seems to be a healthy amount of scholarships available for the staff in 2019