Question of the Week 6/18/12

[superhornet]

I'm sorry for letting this sit until now. I just started a new temp job, and today was my first Monday.

Given the last few months of last season, this week's QOW is bound to generate some controversy, which is always good for the usually dead summer period. So, here goes.

Special Teams: Who will be the primary kickers this season? Which players will stand out on special teams?

 

[Kadeezy]

I'm not sure about the kicking situation, but I've been training with my cousin because he plans to walk-on in the Fall as a kicker, even just as a kickoff specialist. After watching many of the games with me last year, he could not believe the quality (or lack thereof) of the kicking game.

We went to a local HS last weekend and he kicked 18 of 20 KOs into the endzone on the fly from the opposite 35 yard line. One landed at about the 2 and another went out of bounds at the 1.

He was 5 for 6 (two left hash, two right hash, two middle) from 30 yards out, for 6 for 6 from 40 yards out, and 4 for 6 from 50 yards out. After that he moved around to see how far he could hit from. On the third try he hit a FG with me holding the ball on the 50 (60 yd FG).

I know this is nothing near a game situation, but he's 19 and in the mold of Juan Gamboa. He would probably be one of the stronger players on the team (5'10" 210 lbs of solid muscle) and ran a 4.68 40 yard dash this weekend too. He has the skills to play other positions as well, except he has two bad shoulders and is limited to kicking.

Look for him this fall!

 

[GoldenEagleHornet]

Until Sperbeck appoints and/or the hornets can afford to have a coordinator solely dedicated to ST, that will be the X-factor. DaPrato is a former QB, therefore I can understand his work with the receivers- which he's done a good job at- but I'm not too sure about ST. I know that often QBs are holders for FGs and PATs, but I don't see their knowledge going beyond that to punts and kickoffs. QBs who have holder experience, have only limited ST experience with FGs and PATs as well. Just my opinion.

 

[SacHornet]

Until Sperbeck appoints and/or the hornets can afford to have a coordinator solely dedicated to ST, that will be the X-factor. DaPrato is a former QB, therefore I can understand his work with the receivers- which he's done a good job at- but I'm not too sure about ST. I know that often QBs are holders for FGs and PATs, but I don't see their knowledge going beyond that to punts and kickoffs. QBs who have holder experience, have only limited ST experience with FGs and PATs as well. Just my opinion.

even when schools have dedicated ST coordinators this typically only extends to the Xs and Os on the different teams. Very rarely will you ever find a coach that knows a single thing about kicking other then where they want the ball to go and it is up to the kicker/punter to figure out how to put the ball there.

As far as the starting kicker goes they have a scholarship guy from JC that is coming in so i would expect him to start solely for that reason. Punter is a little more difficult. The coaches brought in a scholarship punter but Heath clearly out performed him and was more consistent during spring. Also the coaches gave Heath a partial in order to keep him from leaving so i would expect to see some good competition at the punter position this fall.

 

[SDHornet]

Based on what is on the roster, I think the favorite at kicker is the Moorpark transfer Ed Ruhnke. The other kicker, Castaneda will be competing for the spot but I recall Ruhnke having more consistent numbers. Add Kadeezy’s cousin in the mix and hopefully the pathetic kicking game from a season ago can be remedied.

The punting duties are also up for grabs. Heath is back and a JC transfer Weldon was added as well. Whoever shows they can get the job done and not have shanked punts on a regular basis should get the nod.

Bobak is back for his senior year so the long snapping duties should be solid again.

The punt block team has been absolutely exceptional the past few years. Vanderbeek has been phenomenal on coverage/block teams as well as Markell Williams and many others. The kickoff coverage team has had its lapses, but overall it has been a consistent group.

The return teams have not provided as near as a spark as the kick blocking teams have. With the kickoff rules/distances changing, it will be even harder for the Hornets to break a big kickoff return (conversely it should also help our coverage team). Monson was able to break a few punt returns off but for the most part the punt returning has been hit or miss. I do not know who will be taking over the punt returning duties but hopefully this unit can improve and setup our offense with better field position.

I disagree with LAHF. I think DaPrato has done a fine job in certain areas. If anything, a specialist coach should be brought in to help with kicking on an as-needed basis. Based on a poster here, it sounds like that has been the case. We don’t have the funds to hire a top-notch ST coach, I’m much more happier we splurged on an OC.

 

[FamousBaller]

Very rarely will you ever find a coach that knows a single thing about kicking other then where they want the ball to go and it is up to the kicker/punter to figure out how to put the ball there.

This is exactly right. I think people would be very suprised to find out how little most football coaches understand about the mechanics of kicking and punting. As a matter of FACT, it is very easy to cause a specialist harm (making his job MUCH harder) from a simple misunderstanding of right technique vs. wrong .

Because neither player is still with the team, I can finally be specific: (and this is only one or several examples) ... Early last year out senior holder Flemming used his front hand to hold the ball which is totally wrong because doing that (and that alone) will cause the ball to fly low and off target.
Sound familiar?

Everyone in town was busy blaming Diniz when in reality, NO kicker on earth can overcome that mistake. It's not a mental issue, nor a matter of talent or practice, nor a matter of age or experience. It is also not a choice for the holder. The back hand MUST be used or the ball CAN'T fly high or straight, period.

Unfortunately our busy coaches overlooked this small but important mistake, and very unfortunately so did our young kicker. Combine that with other technical problems Diniz was having and we all saw how it went bad. But make no mistake about the facts, it was NOT all Diniz's fault.

Out of professional respect I held my breath until a picture of this exact situation was on the front page of the Bee sports section with the headline that bad kicking was killing our season.
Then my head expolded.

 

[FamousBaller]

The coaches brought in a scholarship punter but Heath clearly out performed him and was more consistent during spring. Also the coaches gave Heath a partial in order to keep him from leaving.

This is also accurate.
Please rest easy fellow Hornet bloggers who are interested in special teams; we have an exceptional young punter still on the team.

Augie Heath was an outstanding "athlete" who played the position of punter securely for three years with only 1 blocked punt in over 200 attempts.

Smith Heath is a Real Punter!

GO Hornets!

 

[superhornet]

Early last year out senior holder Flemming used his front hand to hold the ball which is totally wrong because doing that (and that alone) will cause the ball to fly low and off target.

Where do you get THAT? If you use the rear hand, the kicker's leg may contact it, thereby screwing up the kick. I've NEVER heard that before. I STILL have a book written by a CFL and NFL holder who advocates using the front hand. He did that until his leg was spectacularly broken by Lawrence Taylor on Monday Night Football (of course, he was playing his primary position of quarterback when that happened).

EDIT: FB: I do NOT intend this to be smack about your coaching ability. I am merely surprised to see it. I have seen what you advocate quite a bit the last ten years or so, and I've been confused about it. Perhaps that's the explanation for it.

 

[SDHornet]

Thanks for the input FamousBaller, it’s good to have input from someone who knows about the place kicking duties. I don’t know which hand is the right hand to hold the ball on a FG attempt but whatever Fleming was doing in the 2010 season for C Diniz worked just fine. I have a hard time believing he would have changed things up while holding for J Diniz (unless he was directed to do so). The place kicking in the 2011 season only had one variable from the previous season and that was at the kicker spot. I also agree not all the blame should fall on J Diniz but what we saw last season was completely inexplicable. For folks like me not in the know about kicking specifics, the kicker is usually going to catch the blunt of the blame (unfortunately that is just how it goes).

Regardless of what happened what’s done is done and we will have new holders and kickers for the 2012 season. Hopefully the kicking game can become reliable once again because going for 4th down inside the opponents 30 yard line is no way to go about winning games.

 

[FamousBaller]

Regardless of what happened what’s done is done and we will have new holders and kickers for the 2012 season. Hopefully the kicking game can become reliable once again because going for 4th down inside the opponents 30 yard line is no way to go about winning games.

AMEN!

 

[FamousBaller]

Early last year out senior holder Flemming used his front hand to hold the ball which is totally wrong because doing that (and that alone) will cause the ball to fly low and off target.

Where do you get THAT? If you use the rear hand, the kicker's leg may contact it, thereby screwing up the kick. I've NEVER heard that before. I STILL have a book written by a CFL and NFL holder who advocates using the front hand. He did that until his leg was spectacularly broken by Lawrence Taylor on Monday Night Football (of course, he was playing his primary position of quarterback when that happened).

EDIT: FB: I do NOT intend this to be smack about your coaching ability. I am merely surprised to see it. I have seen what you advocate quite a bit the last ten years or so, and I've been confused about it. Perhaps that's the explanation for it.

No offense here and I should clarify. When I coach young kickers (and other coaches) I often demand strict allegience to what I believe are completely proven principles, therefore I speak in terms of absolutes. However I am old enough to have seen many athletes in all kinds of sports having great success while "doing it wrong", and I appreciate any athlete who tries to help the next generation.

All due respect to Joe Theisman. Possibly he was successful holding with his front hand but that would be the exception to the rule I promise. If I were to demonstraight the right and wrong way to hold and show you why it is so, there would be no more confusion because one way is MUCH better. Although it is possible to hold with the front hand and not interfere with the kick, using the back hand has many advantages with placemant consistancy and greatly reduces the risk of interference by either hand. As proof of what I say, watch the NFL today. I'd be very surprised to see a picture of anyone in the pros currently using their back hand to hold.

On a similar note: I still have a book about the fundamentals of hitting a baseball written by Charlay Lau of Chigago White Sox fame. In his day Mr Lau was considered THE finest hitting coach in the world, and in his book he is VERY clear about the stupidity of weight lifting for baseball players. He said NEVER NEVER lift weights because it will make an athlete bulky and slow.

Times change and today you'd be hard pressed to find an athlete in any sport that doesn't spend a great deal of time in the weight room, or else they just can't compete with those who do.

Go Hornets!