HornetHope
Active member
JMO, Dotson did great things for this program. Quick, shifty. Good kid. I don’t know what he was going through then, so I wish the young man all the best in his future.
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Shocker (/s), Dotson Enters Transfer Portal
- Thread starter Kadeezy
- Start date
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
HornetHope said:
Completely agree.
Dot was among the only reasons to watch near the end of the Jody Sears era and accomplished some amazing things playing for the Hornets. At one point he was rated as one of the best backs in the Big Sky, if not the best.
How quickly some forget.
He was among my favorite Hornets to watch in recent memory.
As someone that has followed Coach Taylor’s career from HS on and was on this board lobbying for him to be hired years before it actually happened — I’ve brought up how backs are often lost and underutilized in his offensive system.
IMO that’s what partially happened to Dot and why his rushing production fell so drastically. Good part was he was able to showcase his receiving skills that 1st season under Taylor.
We ALL love the transformation that has taken place and is on going since Taylor and staff has taken over. That said, I do feel like one of the weaknesses in Taylor’s system has been underutilizing the traditional running game.
It’s something that’s been on display in the biggest games, including postseason. I believe Taylor is recognizing and making strides, but that aspect still has to improve.
IDC if it’s a bell cow back or committee. I dig the backs the team has now and hope we continue to see them grow.
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
Hopefully Coach Taylor comes to his senses and continues to make strides in changing his offensive philosophy and play calling to be more in line with your expectations as to how his offense should be run. Have you dropped by his office to offer your expertise and insight yet?
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
OldSchoolHornet said:
These types of salty, snarky, trollish responses never cease to amuse. SMH.
Please, by all means reveal your earth-shattering point rather than conceal it via a passive aggressive swipe.
Are you somehow under the delusion that someone with 45 years combined experience following, playing and coaching the game of football can’t make an observation or have a valid opinion regarding the tendencies and history of the current head coach?
What’s this forum for if not to share thoughts, observations, opinions and ideas?? Please enlighten.
Furthermore, you got anything of substance to bring to the table to counter my observations? Or is the above shtick all you got in your tool box? Dazzle me.
Give me a reason to take you seriously. Because right now I got my money on more of the same shtick or crickets.
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
I guess I should have figured it out earlier but until now it never occurred to me Urban Meyer would frequent this site.
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
OldSchoolHornet said:
More of the same shtick it is! Exactly as predicted.
Using your sophomoric tactic against you, I guess I should have figured out earlier but until now it never occurred to me Carrot Top would frequent this site. That at least answers the long unknown question as to where he’s been hiding all these decades.
In all seriousness, I will thank you for responding so I at least know for sure now not to take you seriously or engage any further. I give every trollish act a second chance to demonstrate whether they deserve to be taken seriously or not.
I won’t bother wasting more time with someone who doesn’t have the ability to state a clear and worthwhile point, let alone present a valid counterargument (and you were asked and challenged several times to do so).
Have fun crafting one last one-liner ad hominem, as we already know a coherent response countering the observations and opinions I previously outlined isn’t forthcoming.
As you were bro.
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
OldSchoolHornet said:
I can’t believe I missed this “gem” from earlier in the thread.
Sorry, I said I was done with you (and I am after this) but this was too good to pass up.
Did you run this insightful jump-to-conclusions analysis by all the next level scouts that have and will waste time pouring over his film and/or work him out? You could save them a lot of time.
Someone with a bit of qualification and decades of observation can’t comment or provide opinion without ridicule yet you can play the part of weekend warrior talent scout.
Good, great, grand, wonderful.
Hypocrite. :rofl:
Kadeezy
Active member
Dotson had his best season under Taylor, then he came back year two with some weird new personal philosophy and dietary programs. He lost mass, didn’t run track. Something was off, I won’t pretend to know what it was.
From my perspective, he WAS an NFL quality RB, then something changed within him, not the program, or play calling etc. dude was a running and pass catching machine.
He’s not an every down banger back - I thought Taylor used Dot to his potential in 2019. We’ll see what happens in Greeley this year…
From my perspective, he WAS an NFL quality RB, then something changed within him, not the program, or play calling etc. dude was a running and pass catching machine.
He’s not an every down banger back - I thought Taylor used Dot to his potential in 2019. We’ll see what happens in Greeley this year…
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
Kadeezy...I'm not sure if he was ever an NFL caliber RB but I do agree with you that his skill sets diminished towards the end of his tenure here at Sac State. When the Buckeye coach questions my opinion about whether or not he's currently a Sunday league prospect he's ignoring the fact that very astute people who do this for a living chose to pass on Dotson when he made himself available in the portal. If Dotson can't compete for significant playing time here at Sac State and not one FBS or high ranking FCS saw his value it's EXTREMELY unlikely that he is considered an NFL prospect. Unless everyone got it wrong except Urb.
Kadeezy said:
Agreed. Dotson was fun to watch and easy to cheer for. Too bad he left, but I'll assume he had his reasons. I hope he does well in his final season with the exception of October 8th. UNC's roster has him listed at 190 lbs so he could be back in top shape.
Regarding NFL prospect status, very few FCS players, let alone RBs, get drafted. Last year had a whopping 20 FCS players drafted, but it has typically only been a handful for the better part of the last decade. That doesn't mean Dotson doesn't have great talent amongst his peers at this level.
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
Kadeezy said:
Disclaimer: TLDR content ahead!!!! You’ve been warned!!!
Dot’s best year was not under Taylor. I’m not even sure how you could argue that.
His receptions and involvement in the passing game increased dramatically, no doubt, but his rushing production crashed.
Part of that was struggles along the o-line. Lest we forget how bad we were running the ball at various times, including at the start of last season. Many of us were on this board complaining about the line — which showed a lot of improvement after the first few games.
Another part IMO was Taylor’s committee approach. RB’s were often rotating every other play or sometimes even every play. It can be difficult for certain backs to deal with that. They can’t get in a rhythm.
As I’ve said before, I’m very familiar with Troy Taylor and his coaching history dating back to the early 90’s when he was the offensive coordinator at Casa Roble High. While he and Kris Richardson developed a dynasty program at Folsom really beginning 2008ish, one of the many things his offense has been known for is being super QB friendly. To the point where the QB often runs the ball more than traditional backs.
When he had Dano Graves, Tanner Trosin, Jake Jeffrey, and Kaiden Bennett— that’s exactly what happened. Those four not only slung the ball all over the field — they also led their teams in rushing and rushing attempts by a wide margin.
Even when Taylor fielded QB’s that weren’t much of a rush threat, if at all, (such as Jake Browning and Joe Curry) his top ball carriers often only averaged 6-10 rush attempts per game.
The very best RB to come out of Folsom during Folsom’s reign was Daniyel Ngata. He was an elite area prospect that ended up at Arizona State. He averaged less than 8 carries per game during his Jr and Sr. Seasons. He was very underutilized.
Granted, Taylor had moved on from Folsom after the 15-16 season and wasn’t there for the Ngata years but his system was well in place and numerous coaches from those later staffs are currently working with Taylor now at Sac State. They share the same ideology.
Following Taylor’s career as the co-OC at Eastern Washington in 2016 you’ll see the same exact trend. His QB Gage Gubrud slung the ball all over the field on his way to winning POY honors, while also leading the team in rushing attempts with 36 more carries than the #1 RB
It wasn’t until Taylor’s arrival at Utah under HC Kyle Whittingham that the trend changed. Utah had future NFL RB Zach Moss whom Whittingham clearly wanted to feature. But there were many reports during Taylor’s 2 seasons that there was friction between the two coaches over ideology differences. And I fully recall many Utes fans being happy Taylor was departing. While I didn’t and still don’t agree with their overall assessment of Taylor — I do understand some of their criticisms.
As we’ve seen the past 2 seasons at Sac State, his ideology hasn’t changed much. In 2019, QB Kevin Thompson averaged only 1 less carry than the #1 RB Elijah Dotson — who averaged roughly 11 carries per game.
This past season, Asher O’Hara had 95 more carries than the top RB (Skattebo). Collectively, O’Hara, Dunniway, Bennett and Hale (all 4 QB’s) had 199 rush attempts compared to 197 from the quartet of Skattebo, Perkinson, Fulcher and Dotson. The 4 leading non-QB rushers. That’s staggering.
Now, the program has surely seen a 180 turnaround from where it was. And I believe it’s safe to say that we are ALL happy to see the newfound success. I don’t believe anyone here would trade it in.
I of all fans is truly rooting for Taylor to remain and continue this upward climb. As everyone knows I was pushing his name as a HC candidate for the Hornets on this very forum while he was still at Folsom just prior to him landing the gig at EWU. So I have no anti-agenda. I love the guy.
However, it is more than fair to acknowledge things I’ve noticed (and other avid followers have noticed) in terms of negatives.
Around FCS circles, while the Hornets turnaround has been noticed and applauded, there are many questioning how good the Hornets really are — especially once in the postseason. We’ve landed top 4 seeds the past 2 years yet underwhelmed in the 1st round. Granted we played a great team last year, but we still got off to a very slow start.
If you notice, the top teams such as NDST, JMU, SDST, etc. tend to run the ball more traditionally and consistently than Sac State does. While the system we’re running has been phenomenal during the regular season against the schedule we play, it is more than fair to question it with regard to the post season and/or against top competition. And with regard to certain RB’s not having the statistical success they might enjoy elsewhere.
Troy Taylor’s offense strongly emphasizes the QB in both the passing and rushing game. It historically hasn’t emphasized or favored RB’s sans two seasons in Utah under a more traditional and conservative Kyle Wittingham.
While it’s been enough to turnaround the lowly Hornets program, it remains to be seen whether postseason success will follow.
I’m on record saying I believe Taylor needs to better balance the traditional run game with his emphasis on the QB. And as he gains more and more experience, I believe he will.
I think Skattebo has the ability to be a tremendous back. Perhaps the best the Hornets have fielded since Charles Roberts and maybe even better than him. Hopefully Taylor gets the ball in his hands more next season. Asher O’Hara is nice player and does some great things, but less of him and more of Skattebo (and the other backs) running the ball will benefit the Hornets better in the long run IMO.
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
I'm on record saying you have never coached for a living (regardless of how you try to embellish your football resume) and you do not possess more wisdom, savvy and/or knowledge than Troy and his offensive staff.
BHF, great post and breakdown of QB vs RB running game. I've never took a look at it that closely. Very informative. Only comment I'll make is that there are quite a few screen/dump off pass plays to the RBs that subsidize the running game. While they don't show up in the rush production, they serve the same purpose and get the RBs touches.
And keep posting, nothing more entertaining than seeing OSH going full meathead roid rage and getting his panties in a bunch over some internet discussions. He's always good for a laugh. :lol:
And keep posting, nothing more entertaining than seeing OSH going full meathead roid rage and getting his panties in a bunch over some internet discussions. He's always good for a laugh. :lol:
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
Hey Genius...nice of you to stop by...what took you so long? Not sure what I typed that you would have considered "rage" other than to suggest the obvious as in the current staff is much more adept at managing the talent and game plan than a couple of rank amateurs like you and your boy, Urb.
OldSchoolHornet said:
No doubt...and all thanks to Nelsen for going with Orr. What was it you said on the AD hire? Oh yeah, it was "Massari and 3 other guys". Good call. :lol:
Just think, if Nelsen was as short sighted as you Hornet football would still be stuck in futility with a wannabe D1 coach plucked from the JC ranks. :rofl:
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
In retrospect I couldn't agree more with you about Orr being a great hire because he was able to bring in Taylor. What I can't figure out is how you and your boy Urb seem to think you had something to do with it. I can't even count the number of times the two of you have bragged about making the call on Taylor and Orr. Urb gives himself credit for calling out Taylor's name as a HC and then berates Troy for not understanding the game as well as he does. He's never coached for a living and you've never coached or played a minute of the game but you are positive your superior intellects entitle you to criticize those who do it for a living. Instead of using your keyboards to give each other handjobs maybe you two should spend more time actually supporting the program instead of trying to perpetuate some fantasy that you could do a better job than the current staff. And please quit acting like you had anything to do with the hirings or any of the success of the program.
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
SDHornet said:
I don’t disagree with you re: designed pass plays to the RB’s. They surely can subsidize to a degree. And TT has used the tactic a lot over his years as OC and HC.
As I said, I don’t have a lot of gripes with TT but his neglect of the traditional run game and over-reliance on QB run are surely among them.
It was one of several reasons I felt Folsom typically struggled against the likes of De La Salle and other top HS programs that were as talented (or more) than they were (another was a refusal to punt, often deep in their own territory) And it’s something to monitor as his Sac State career continues. So far the Hornets have struggled against physical, run-oriented teams. The offense has stalled while the defense has been grounded to death.
In these types of games the Hornets offense needs to do a better job keeping TOP more even and better manage the game by shortening the game and limiting the opponents possessions. I’d point to the Brady era Patriots as an example of how experienced playoff teams tend to utilize the traditional run game to control tempo and help keep their defense fresh.
Meanwhile a team like Kansas City has had the most explosive offense in the NFL for years now but has largely underachieved because they won’t commit to the traditional run game enough against top opponents.
The SB they lost to Tampa was a perfect example of this. Tampa played two deep safeties to take Tyreek Hill and the deep, over-the top plays away from the Chiefs offense thus daring them to counter with the run. While KC ran the ball well that game (iirc over 5 ypc) they largely refused to take the advantage TB handed to them in the run game with a light box (something like only 10 or 11 traditional rush attempts) and it wound up biting them in the @$$.
For all his brilliance, Andy Reid’s teams in Philly and KC have earned a reputation of consistently coming up short in the postseason. IMO the example above are among the reasons why. If it hadn’t been for a non-holding call against Nick Bosa in the SB against the 49ers — Reid would still be getting killed in the media for never winning the big game.
As great of a coach as TT is, having followed his coaching career for nearly 30 years, I feel he somewhat falls into a similar trap. His offenses are GREAT during the regular season and when he has better talent than his opponent. However when the opponents defense has as good or better talent and coaching — that’s when these seemingly small differences in philosophy become a deciding factor.
I truly believe TT will figure things out. The experience he and the Hornets got the past 2 postseasons should go a long way in that regard. We shall see.
Lastly, with regard to Carrot Top “going full meathead roid rage” — yeah, that dude is clearly missing some brain cells and in more desperate need of attention than a neglected 13-year old girl with daddy issues.
I offered multiple opportunities to prove he was worthy of being taken seriously. Yet he couldn’t do it. Instead of engaging in a worthwhile debate and offering up something of substance to counter my observations and opinions all he was capable of bringing to the table were ad hominem attacks and a “liar liar pants on fire” defense. Because he has no personal frame of reference or experience on the topic, that much is crystal clear.
He’s proven to be an absolute joke and not worthy of any more of anyone’s time.
I’ll gladly opt to exchange ideas and debate with you and the several other regulars here that actually know what they’re talking about and are skilled enough to express it.
OldSchoolHornet
Active member
Urban...did you just break up with me for the third time in a week? Haven't had that happen since junior high. I knew you were too thin skinned and egocentric to let it go after the first announcement that you were through with me. But, I know how to get you to stop answering my posts...all I have to do is ask you AGAIN when/where you EVER coached football for a living and I'm positive you will ghost me.
And to be clear...you feel Troy is such a good coach he will eventually come around to your way of thinking and fix his offense. Quite possibly the most narcissistic statement EVER made on this site. :rofl:
And to be clear...you feel Troy is such a good coach he will eventually come around to your way of thinking and fix his offense. Quite possibly the most narcissistic statement EVER made on this site. :rofl:
OldSchoolHornet said:
I don't recall ever claiming to have a hand in it, feel free to post links though. I do know that I had faith in Nelsen making the right hires...and he has for multiple programs. It's amazing to see some of the potential unleashed when we aren't wasting hiring opportunities on JC coaches.
As far as supporting this program (and department), yeah, I check that box plenty over the years.
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
Good points. I do think Taylor tends to get cute at times and go away from what works (playoff games, that inexplicable game plan at UNC for example). Regardless, this program under Taylor has greatly exceeded anything I expected as a Hornet fan so anything since our 2019 BSC Title is just nitpicking at this point. IMO we've been playing with house money ever since so I'm just going to enjoy the ride.
