State Hornet Picks Up the Torch on Arena Bait and Switch

[SDHornet]

Et tu SD?

Although the university needs their own arena, the basketball program itself would benefit from playing games in the downtown arena.

I'm not a NBA fan in general, Kings...meh. I won't lie though, I'll definitely check out some games when they get the new digs. I agree we need an on-campus event center no matter what; it's just clear that the downtown arena will be built long before one on-campus will so we may as well turn those lemons into lemonade.

 

[superhornet]

We'll see what the Kings do over time without the bogus Maloofs. For right now, as far as I'm concerned, Hornet gymnastics is a better deal than the Kings. Hopefully, that changes. The Maloofs folded the wrong team, IMO. The only pro hoops title in Sac history came from the Monarchs, NOT the Kings. The only other pro titles I know of in Sac (other than maybe the pro tennis team) came from football (either the Gold Miners or the Surge, I always forget which, and the Sirens).

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

I don't understand what the problem is. It's more than just athletics. If we have a good arena, we can rent it out throughout the year and make bank. Fresno State does that. SDSU does that. Heck, even the unmentionable school down I-5 does it (occasionally, anyway). We've been known to rent out the football stadium (Surge/Goldminers, Pig Bowl, NCAA Track, USATF Olympic Trials, etc.). Why can't we do the same with a good arena? Plus, most arenae have digital signs attached to them; we could sell advertising on that. It just doesn't make any sense....

Because the Kings control the money. They don't have an arena, neither will the state school. :notworthy:

My one wish was they would have moved to Seattle. Sac State would probably be pushing dirt for a new events center by now had that materialized.

Sorry Kings fans, but I am a Hornet fan first and this is really just a one horse town anyway.

Hush your mouth GCM. There is no reason that the Kings and Hornets can't coexist. There is no money control in this town. For years, the Maloofs alienated corporate sponsors and Sac State did not end up benefiting. So why would the Kings leaving benefit us? Not having an arena at Sac State has nothing to do with the Kings. Sac State needs the same thing that the Kings needed in order to get an arena done. Strong leadership and feet on the ground soliciting corporations and individuals for donations.

Sacramento is rabid to be considered a 'city' and the image that goes along with it. No city-state school is going to have an arena before the city's 'official' ambassadors, the Kings, get their glory.

I can honestly say that if the Kings packed up and left, the Hornets would be the heir apparent of all the love the Bee, city and county bestow upon the Kings.

 

[Kadeezy]

Just to twist the knife in a little further... I visited American Canyon high school recently and watched a couple hoops games in their new gym. Comfortably seats 2,500+ with better locker room, bathroom, and concession facilities than Hornet Gym.

Click the link and go through some of the pics...

http://www.qka.com/ATHAQ_AmericanCanyonHS.php#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Hornet Fever]

At this point,the administration feels no pressure to build a new gym as a product on the court has not been good and the team is not selling out games...but if the last 2 recruiting classes are as good as advertise and the program starts winning games and maybe a conference championships…there will be a lot more pressure on the administration to do something about the gym as they will start losing money at the gate as they will start turning people away on sellout crowds…I guess we can only hope.

 

[Hornet25]

I don't understand what the problem is. It's more than just athletics. If we have a good arena, we can rent it out throughout the year and make bank. Fresno State does that. SDSU does that. Heck, even the unmentionable school down I-5 does it (occasionally, anyway). We've been known to rent out the football stadium (Surge/Goldminers, Pig Bowl, NCAA Track, USATF Olympic Trials, etc.). Why can't we do the same with a good arena? Plus, most arenae have digital signs attached to them; we could sell advertising on that. It just doesn't make any sense....

Because the Kings control the money. They don't have an arena, neither will the state school. :notworthy:

My one wish was they would have moved to Seattle. Sac State would probably be pushing dirt for a new events center by now had that materialized.

Sorry Kings fans, but I am a Hornet fan first and this is really just a one horse town anyway.

Hush your mouth GCM. There is no reason that the Kings and Hornets can't coexist. There is no money control in this town. For years, the Maloofs alienated corporate sponsors and Sac State did not end up benefiting. So why would the Kings leaving benefit us? Not having an arena at Sac State has nothing to do with the Kings. Sac State needs the same thing that the Kings needed in order to get an arena done. Strong leadership and feet on the ground soliciting corporations and individuals for donations.

Sacramento is rabid to be considered a 'city' and the image that goes along with it. No city-state school is going to have an arena before the city's 'official' ambassadors, the Kings, get their glory.

I can honestly say that if the Kings packed up and left, the Hornets would be the heir apparent of all the love the Bee, city and county bestow upon the Kings.

I tend to think that the Bee is just waiting and hoping for Sac State to have consistent success with one of the major programs so they can write articles that will interest their audience. If the Bee writes an article about Sac State and they get lots of page views, they would write more. But right now, that's not happening.

It's the same thing with the radio. I've heard radio hosts on KHTK say that they don't talk about Sac State because when they do, they start losing listeners. It's all about ratings. So if Sac State is going to grow, it's going to be from the bottom up. The local media is not going to sacrifice ratings and page views to help us out.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

I don't get the Kings hate either. C'mon you guys, you're all better than that. Actually, I can see the Hornets program benefitting from the Kings presence in Sacramento in a few years, specifically with this new ownership group, once they get their New Arena and other ducks in a row. There are a lot of new businessmen with deep pockets in town now, and it will only get better with all the ancillary building and projects that will be going on downtown around it all. More people going downtown on a regular basis could pose a benefit for the Hornets. All they need to do is start winning consistently. If they do that, the basketball program could start playing some games at the new dowtown arena, which isn't all that far from the campus, and see an increase in attendance. That could possibly be parlayed into an on-campus gym in a few years.

The easier answer would be to attract the attention of all the rich whales that will be building up downtown. As I said before, once they start seeing some success for the Kings, the new Arena, and downtown, you might get see some interest in helping the local program that's on the rise. You never know.

 

[LoveSacState]

The Kings have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there isn't a Arena on campus...The Arena should have been done already but things never materialized due to bad administrative planning and lack of funds..
Anyone thinking it's because of the Kings has blinders on...This Athletic department needs about 20 million for the Arena alone and another 50 or more for a definitive upgrade to the Football stadium..that's 70 million and that isn't easy to get when people in this area don't even recognize the School as their local Division 1 program..they think Cal and Stanford are....until this city gets behind Sacramento State things won't change...The athletic department needs to go full court press on getting people interested and flat out winning in both Basketball and most importantly Football ....meaning a Big sky championship and NCAA tournament berth in basketball and a FCS playoff and deep run or championship in Football ...that will allow the program to keep even more local kids here and get more people in the area to notice..Then and only then will it chAnge..70 million dollars is just way to much money to come by without help...plus the conference affiliation isn't considered big time and people don't care about the Big Sky in Basketball or Football..they would definitely need plans on how to get into the Mountain West..it's not a overly high profile conference but is a definite upgrade to the Big Sky.. They Arena should be patterned after what Grand Canyon currently has...

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

The Kings have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that there isn't a Arena on campus...The Arena should have been done already but things never materialized due to bad administrative planning and lack of funds..
Anyone thinking it's because of the Kings has blinders on...This Athletic department needs about 20 million for the Arena alone and another 50 or more for a definitive upgrade to the Football stadium..that's 70 million and that isn't easy to get when people in this area don't even recognize the School as their local Division 1 program..they think Cal and Stanford are....until this city gets behind Sacramento State things won't change...The athletic department needs to go full court press on getting people interested and flat out winning in both Basketball and most importantly Football ....meaning a Big sky championship and NCAA tournament berth in basketball and a FCS playoff and deep run or championship in Football ...that will allow the program to keep even more local kids here and get more people in the area to notice..Then and only then will it chAnge..70 million dollars is just way to much money to come by without help...plus the conference affiliation isn't considered big time and people don't care about the Big Sky in Basketball or Football..they would definitely need plans on how to get into the Mountain West..it's not a overly high profile conference but is a definite upgrade to the Big Sky.. They Arena should be patterned after what Grand Canyon currently has...

$50M for a football stadium!? I think it could be done for $25M-$30M. That is why they have what is called bonds. I dont expect the school to have $50M-$70 sitting in a BoA checking account, it will need to be financed, happens everyday. Schools that have vision and are a true destination campus have this figured out.

Our school is nothing more than an outreach of the cluster fock called the State of California. Nothing will ever get done, it hasn't in my 25yrs. waiting for it, so I guess since the school won't do it, the city won't do it, the students did it, but were rebuffed.....I guess the really only option for us to be successful is to move down to D2, which is where we were in 1992 and is where we are in 2014.

As stipulation for moving to D1, there should have been a poison pill that said if facilities don't match the division, move back to where we belong.

Kings suck, enough said. I hate them more than anything on this planet. I guess I really hate how the media, city officials are always fawning over them. They are the main reason nothing has never been built and will never be built at CSUS. If we were Fresno and not burdened by a faux NBA team, we would have a Save Mart Center, Bieden Field and Bulldog stadium to represent the city and school.

If you are waiting for the school to finally get off the toilet, I can save you about 25yrs. and recommend finding another viable D1 program to support.

 

[LoveSacState]

Again GMC.. this has nothing to do with the Kings not one bit at all..The rational that you are using to blame the Kings for Sac state not having a Arena is faulty completely..im sure most people would agree with me on this..Hating the Kings is fine but they aren't the issue for Sac State..

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Again GMC.. this has nothing to do with the Kings not one bit at all..The rational that you are using to blame the Kings for Sac state not having a Arena is faulty completely..im sure most people would agree with me on this..Hating the Kings is fine but they aren't the issue for Sac State..

Oh, I blame the clowns in the corner office. Having Queens in town just redirects any paltry support this town can muster. Might not be the reason behind apathy at the school, but it doesn't help.

 

[sacstateman]

IMHO the prez's son's problems arose at the exact time the prez had to make a decision on the Events Center. He chose the path of least resistance at a very inconvenient time to make a decision that would certainly be questioned. Just my opinion again.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

Kings suck, enough said. I hate them more than anything on this planet. I guess I really hate how the media, city officials are always fawning over them. They are the main reason nothing has never been built and will never be built at CSUS. If we were Fresno and not burdened by a faux NBA team, we would have a Save Mart Center, Bieden Field and Bulldog stadium to represent the city and school.

GCM, this is by far the biggest pile of crap I've ever read from you on this site. Stop making excuses. Sac State wasn't exactly flourishing before the Kings moved to town, so stop with the Kings hate.

The media, city officials and fans fawn over them because they are a big deal in this town, regardless of what you'd like to think. From 1998 until around 2005, they were the model NBA franchise. They have since fallen on hard times due to poor ownership, but that has since changed with the new ownership group. Soon, a brand new state of the art facility will be built, the downtown will be re-vitalized and winning product will return. Instead of hating on it, how about embracing the possibility that it might directly or indirectly help the Hornets program in the long run. It certainly can't hurt having wealthy businessmen in this town, who wouldn't be here otherwise. With all that will be going on the next few years downtown, Sac State needs to figure out a way to get in on some of it. With their basketball program seemingly on the rise, perhaps they should look to get a few of their home games scheduled at the new Arena, which is only a short hop away from campus.

 

[LoveSacState]

I agree about games in the new Arena downtown....Similar plan to what the baseball team does with Raley field..But to get butts in the seat and some interest you would have to schedule games against top west coast teams like PAC 12 schools and San Diego State ..no one will come if it's big sky schools playing even if they were in the new Arena.. This program needs to be in the Big West honestly..Not that it's that much better than the big sky but the teams are more recognizable in California for Sacramentans...

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Kings suck, enough said. I hate them more than anything on this planet. I guess I really hate how the media, city officials are always fawning over them. They are the main reason nothing has never been built and will never be built at CSUS. If we were Fresno and not burdened by a faux NBA team, we would have a Save Mart Center, Bieden Field and Bulldog stadium to represent the city and school.

GCM, this is by far the biggest pile of crap I've ever read from you on this site. Stop making excuses. Sac State wasn't exactly flourishing before the Kings moved to town, so stop with the Kings hate.

The media, city officials and fans fawn over them because they are a big deal in this town, regardless of what you'd like to think. From 1998 until around 2005, they were the model NBA franchise. They have since fallen on hard times due to poor ownership, but that has since changed with the new ownership group. Soon, a brand new state of the art facility will be built, the downtown will be re-vitalized and winning product will return. Instead of hating on it, how about embracing the possibility that it might directly or indirectly help the Hornets program in the long run. It certainly can't hurt having wealthy businessmen in this town, who wouldn't be here otherwise. With all that will be going on the next few years downtown, Sac State needs to figure out a way to get in on some of it. With their basketball program seemingly on the rise, perhaps they should look to get a few of their home games scheduled at the new Arena, which is only a short hop away from campus.

Fair enough, I don't post here to have everybody love me.

I would assume you realize the Kings are paid mercenaries who would kick the city to the curb in a twenty-dollar bill minute. They almost left and are now holding the town hostage for money and an arena. I do not follow any professional club/sport for that very reason. It is called greed and worshipping the wrong idols.

Hornets on the other hand are true ambassadors to the city and region as they will never leave and throw a tantrum when they don't get their hundreds/millions of dollars arena and salaries. Talk about humble to a fault, that's our Hornets.

At one point the state was the sixth largest economy in the world. You really think because a back water NBA team will suddenly draw 'businessmen' with money to the area they will be writing checks to help the welfare Hornets? No, this is about the wealthy getting wealthier and when they can't scrape any more cream off the top they will move to Seattle, Calcutta or wherever. Sooner the better.

 

[SDHornet]

Again GMC.. this has nothing to do with the Kings not one bit at all..The rational that you are using to blame the Kings for Sac state not having a Arena is faulty completely..im sure most people would agree with me on this..Hating the Kings is fine but they aren't the issue for Sac State..

Welcome to the board LSS. :thumb:

I don't think the Kings are directly/purposely taking potential donor money away from Sac State, but indirectly via sponsorship, suite purchases, etc that could otherwise possibly be headed our way. The corporate dollar in Sac is limited and I'm hard pressed to believe companies have the cash to purchase advertisements and suites from the Kings AND donate money to Sac State for the SEC. This may or may not be true but that is my feeling.

IMHO the prez's son's problems arose at the exact time the prez had to make a decision on the Events Center. He chose the path of least resistance at a very inconvenient time to make a decision that would certainly be questioned. Just my opinion again.

Good theory. I still think the main reason was that the private money just wasn’t there. We need $45M up front then the student fees will finance the rest as well as cover the operating costs when it is up and running. Gonzo’s track record has shown that the concerns about student fees are not driving his decisions.

I agree about games in the new Arena downtown....Similar plan to what the baseball team does with Raley field..But to get butts in the seat and some interest you would have to schedule games against top west coast teams like PAC 12 schools and San Diego State ..no one will come if it's big sky schools playing even if they were in the new Arena.. This program needs to be in the Big West honestly..Not that it's that much better than the big sky but the teams are more recognizable in California for Sacramentans...

Yup, don’t waste games in the new downtown arena with anyone in the BSC…or the Big West or WCC outside of Gonzaga or BYU for that matter. Land games with the Pac-12, top half of the MWC, or any other decent name/program and the game should do well at the gate. Only a handful of games would need to be scheduled there, keep all BSC and low level OOC games in The Nest.

I would assume you realize the Kings are paid mercenaries who would kick the city to the curb in a twenty-dollar bill minute. They almost left and are now holding the town hostage for money and an arena. I do not follow any professional club/sport for that very reason. It is called greed and worshipping the wrong idols.

Hornets on the other hand are true ambassadors to the city and region as they will never leave and throw a tantrum when they don't get their hundreds/millions of dollars arena and salaries. Talk about humble to a fault, that's our Hornets.

At one point the state was the sixth largest economy in the world. You really think because a back water NBA team will suddenly draw 'businessmen' with money to the area they will be writing checks to help the welfare Hornets? No, this is about the wealthy getting wealthier and when they can't scrape any more cream off the top they will move to Seattle, Calcutta or wherever. Sooner the better.

I agree with GCM (only I don’t hate the Kings, I’m just indifferent to them and the NBA as a whole). The Kings only “love this city” because the City is willing to pony up the money to keep them here, anyone thinking otherwise is clueless. The City WILL lose money on the arena deal; anyone thinking otherwise does not understand that professional franchises DEPEND on tax payer subsidies to bolster their coffers. What the City needs to happen to limit the losses is for the surrounding downtown area to see a massive increase in commercial and tourism spending as well as a real estate development boom. I believe this will happen eventually and that as a whole the downtown arena is good for the City. I saw what happened first hand in downtown SD when Petco was built and there should be a ton of ancillary projects due to this arena going in. It's going to be a great time to have a civil engineering degree.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

I would assume you realize the Kings are paid mercenaries who would kick the city to the curb in a twenty-dollar bill minute. They almost left and are now holding the town hostage for money and an arena. I do not follow any professional club/sport for that very reason. It is called greed and worshipping the wrong idols.

I agree with GCM (only I don’t hate the Kings, I’m just indifferent to them and the NBA as a whole). The Kings only “love this city” because the City is willing to pony up the money to keep them here, anyone thinking otherwise is clueless.

First off, I have a lot of respect for both of you. I've been following this board for quite a while now and I always look forward to reading your contributions. After all, we're all fellow Hornets fans!

Having conveyed that, I think you both are selling the new Kings ownership short and not quite giving them a chance. This isn't the overly-greedy, nearly broke after blowing daddy's beer distribution family fortune Maloof family we're dealing with anymore. This is a different animal.

Is the new ownership disinterested in making money? Of course not. However, Vivek Ranadive, the Jacobs Family, Mark Mastrov and the rest of the ownership group did something nobody else was willing to do ... drastically over pay to keep the Kings in Sacramento. Secondly, they agreed to an arena deal that the previous ownership wouldn't agree to because THEY were overly greedy. Lastly, the new ownership group made a pact with the NBA to spend money on the team and not accept handouts from the others owners simply because they reside in a small market.

The point I'm making is that, while they are certainly not in this to lose money hand over foot, there is a bit of a philanthropic motive behind the new group. They aren't in it to make a fortune like the broke Maloof family, who used the business as a lifeboat. These new owners don't need the team in order to build their fortune. They already have their fortune and built it on their own, rather than inherited it. There's a huge difference there.

And don't discount the fact that the new ownership group is pledging over 1B in development in and around the new arena. That's huge and is something no previous owner in the franchises history or no other developer that's passed through town has ever been willing to do. They obviously see something in this city and are willing to gamble on it. All I'm suggesting is giving them a chance before writing them off as both of you have seemingly done.

You're probably both correct in that Sac State won't see a giant benefit from any of it. But maybe they will see some? I can't imagine a vibrant downtown, if it comes to fruition, not benefitting Sac State - which is only a couple left turns away from downtown - in some fashion. And who is to say that the new ownership group won't have an interest in helping the Hornets programs out once they get their feet settled in a couple years and become more familiar with what's going on locally. From what I've seen so far, they seem like a group that will share the wealth at least a little bit. They all have deep pockets, a vested interest in seeing Sacramento succeed as a city, and some philanthropic sensibility.

Let's just see how things play out before liking them to the Maloof family or even your average greedy ownership group. We now have some of the world's technology leaders in town (Tibco, Qualcomm) with a vested interest in our city. That can't be an entirely negative thing for the Sac State.

 

[LoveSacState]

I completely agree with your accessments....but the bottom line is it's not up to the Kings to make sure Sac State succeeds locally it's up to the Administration...They are completely separate entities and I'm still not sure why there is this thought that some how the Kings are keeping Sac State from thriving.. That is ludicrous..

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

That is ludicrous..

http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hummm, what do you see when you click the Fresno Bee sports link? A big hyperlink to everything Fresno State Bulldogs. Guess what? The town doesn't worship teams in other cities or their professional baseball team, they support their local, hometown D1 team and they give it their all.

You can't even find a link for the Hornets in the Sacramento version of the McClatchy paper. Our link is called 'colleges', which puts us in the same camp as CRC, ARC and Sierra. Why? Because Sacramento is too busy trying to be something it is not, worshipping teams in other cities (Giants, 49ers) to cramming what they think will be the cities image savior (Kings) down our throats.

Do you think Memphis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Houston, Wichita, Boise and other city/college towns would be as prominent if their local media treated them as if they were a JC or D2?

Image is everything and having the Kings in town gives the Bee reason not to support the Hornets in the same way Fresno supports the Bulldogs. If the Kings weren't in town I guess the Bee would still cram other cities teams down our throats though.

I am guessing you didn't take too many media/perception classes while at 6000 J. Street. The media has the ability to influence peoples perception and action items. Look at what they did for Nobama. If the Bee were placing the local D1 school with more prominence more than 600 people in a city of 1.5M would show up to a BBall game.

Yes, part of the fault is having a lame duck president at the school. Another bigger problem is having a local media base that goes out of its way to diminish the D1 status of CSUS. It is cause/effect. Why would the Bee support a school that can't figure out how to build a gym with more than 1100 seats that is over 60yrs. old? Why support a school that still has porta potties as the main restrooms at the stadium that has been 'renovated' since 1992?

So, to end my treatise, it is a culmination of poor school leadership and having the Kings in town only supports the Bee and their refusal to provide enhanced coverage of their D1 school. Without media support you are pissing in the wind. And without leadership, testicles and vision you have what we have now at Sac State.

 

[SDHornet]

Nowhere have I indicated that I have written off the new Kings ownership. They have committed a lot to the team and are running one hell of a PR campaign that is doing an excellent job of playing off of the emotions of the fan base. Good for them, good for Kings fans, and hopefully good for the city.

I’ve seen this dog and pony show before in SD. This is the same hype John Moores brought to SD when he bought the Padres. He made promises, put together a team that made a WS appearance run which ultimately got him a downtown stadium courtesy of the local tax payers (he then gutted the team until his divorce forced him to sell it). But that wasn’t his best move. His best move was getting a sweetheart deal for his development firm for the exclusive rights for downtown development around the stadium. He made billions more than he ever could from just owning the Padres. I’ll also note that Moores donated a significant amount of money to various local charities/education purposes as well so he didn’t just take (all) the money and run.

My point is Kings fans can blather all they want about how awesome this ownership group is and that is fine, I understand the excitement of going from the worst possible owners ever to a group with vision and drive but there are more things in play. But when I hear things like “they are committed to developing downtown” don’t think for a second that they won’t be on the take for those deals as well. That is where the real money will be made. These are businessmen, and they will ultimately make decisions that benefit their bottom line. Does that make them bad people? Hell no, I’m a capitalist and I respect people that have the will and know-how to make these mega deals. Like I said before, plenty of people will benefit from this arena deal and hopefully Sac State can as well, but let’s hold off on canonizing this ownership group until some results are delivered.