Story on Idaho Football...

[boisebengal]

from Skippy ----- My sources tell me EWU is about to announce a big stadium expansion project. It would be so great if we could get our hands on a $3 to $5 M to do a nice Holt remodel. I keep buying lottery tickets....

I think that $3 to $5 million would be just a good start since Jeff Tingey said that our most critical needs would be to make roof improvements and to replace the HVAC system. Personally I think we really need money for a new press box as this would be a nice addition. Ideally we really need about $20 million to renovate the whole thing and bring a lot of different areas up to code. Perhaps the university can look into bonding to be able to do something like this, if there are no major donors who can come forth. Maybe we can do whatever Idaho did to come up with the money; you said that the state funded their dome renovations. But I think before the staff even looks at renovating the dome they're looking at raising about $500,000 or so for a new student academic tutorial center -- tentatively to be located off of the grassy area off of 15th street near the dome.

 

[Skippy]

The return of Idaho football is mandated by the agreement that the Vandals signed with the Big Sky. They have a few years, but they are contractually obligated to return football to the Sky.

Fullerton revealed Monday that changes to the FBS bylaws in 10 days will have a major positive impact on the Big Sky.

Presumably, the change will allow FCS conferences to move up to FBS, which wasn't previously allowed. If this is the case, the entire Big Sky may reclassify. Fullerton talked openly about getting NDSU, and SDSU to join back in June in a North Dakota paper. Those two would move if they could go FBS.

Perhaps Idaho St, Weber St, SUU, NAU, N Colo would stay FCS. Don't know yet. All the other schools in the Big Sky are either above the 15,000 seat threshold, or planning to build to get there.

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-694992.html

Sioux, I'd be curious to see a link or reference to Idaho's agreement mandating that they return football to the Big Sky. I've never seen any public reference to that, and Idaho's AD and President certainly aren't talking about coming back to FCS football.

 

[Siouxfan2]

The return of Idaho football is mandated by the agreement that the Vandals signed with the Big Sky. They have a few years, but they are contractually obligated to return football to the Sky.

Fullerton revealed Monday that changes to the FBS bylaws in 10 days will have a major positive impact on the Big Sky.

Presumably, the change will allow FCS conferences to move up to FBS, which wasn't previously allowed. If this is the case, the entire Big Sky may reclassify. Fullerton talked openly about getting NDSU, and SDSU to join back in June in a North Dakota paper. Those two would move if they could go FBS.

Perhaps Idaho St, Weber St, SUU, NAU, N Colo would stay FCS. Don't know yet. All the other schools in the Big Sky are either above the 15,000 seat threshold, or planning to build to get there.

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-694992.html

Sioux, I'd be curious to see a link or reference to Idaho's agreement mandating that they return football to the Big Sky. I've never seen any public reference to that, and Idaho's AD and President certainly aren't talking about coming back to FCS football.

Did a Freedom of Information act request with Idaho. The agreement stipulates Idaho football must return to the Big Sky after a period in another FBS conference. The implication is that if the Big Sky can not reclassify to FBS by then, Idaho must return as an FCS team.

Fullerton et al are working overtime to get the NCAA to change the FBS rules.

 

[bengalcub]

If this is correct, I think we may be seeing the last years of Idaho State being a member of the Big Sky Conference. I also would not be surprised to see the football program dropped or the Bengals moving to Division 2. The only thing that would save them is some sort of attendance waiver. Idaho State does not have the resources to make major facility upgrades. By this I mean funding of massive Holt arena upgrades or a building of a whole new facility. I am of the opinion that unless the city of Pocatello and Chubbuck do something to help, athletics at Idaho State will be drastically cut or go away altogether. Is it even possible for the cities to work with the university and create a community facility or facilities? I am not sure that this option is even realistic or feasible. Also, I apologize in advance if this message contains spelling and grammar errors as I am trying to respond to this voice to text. Typing on a phone is getting too hard for this old man.

 

[PBP]

I also would like to see some confirmation of this. (link, attachment...something) No disrespect to Siouxfan.

By all accounts Idaho is dead set at remaining a "big time" (their words) football program.

And any Big Sky schools (save for Montana) thinking about moving up to the FBS division (at least under the current rules) would be making the biggest mistake in their athletic department history.

We'll see what the landscape of the college football world is like after the August 7th vote by the NCAA on the power conferences. If they are allowed autonomy (or leave because the measures didn't pass) everything is different.

PBP

 

[Siouxfan2]

I'm the poster who revealed that Idaho only has four years in the Sun Belt. The news media or Idaho didn't reveal that until I posted the Sun Belt's agreement with Idaho. Most of their fans thought it was a permanent arrangement. The Big Sky only took Idaho on the promise of getting FBS. Seattle U sports is more valuable than Idaho non-football, but the promise of getting Idaho FBS football is what drove the Montana's (who drive the conference financially and otherwise) to get excited. The Montana's want FBS football, but in a regional conference for cost containment. The old WAC was not regional enough for the Montana's, as they would have made regular travel to Texas for all their teams .

So much depends on how or if the FBS rules will be relaxed. FBS payout games will be greater than FCS.

I do wonder if Idaho St could go to FBS under current rules. Maybe ISU would decide the WAC with no football is a better place for it financially. Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, Seattle, NMSU, Bakersfield, UMKC, UTPA, and Chicago St would likely welcome you. SUU and UNC are kind of in the same predicament. Think the FCS will still exist, but have massively lower scholarship requirements.

I think it is clear that all of Montana, Montana St, Portland St, Sac St, UC Davis, Cal Poly, E Wash, and North Dakota want FBS. Weber St and NAU may be on the fence. SUU, Idaho St, and UNC may be a different story depending on the new rules. There is nothing to prevent the Big Sky from offering both FCS and FBS. FCS needs six teams to have an autobid. An FBS conference must have eight FBS teams to qualify as a FCS conference. Maybe that is why Fullerton is going after NDSU, SDSU, USD, and NMSU too. USD probably can't go FBS.

 

[PBP]

Interesting. I'll check with my contacts in the Boise media about this. Brad perhaps you can get ahold of Jon in the conference office.

Again with no disrespect to Sioux I haven't heard word one of this, nor have I seen any media comments, reports, stories on this.

This is a huge story and the odds of no one talking, reporting, commenting on it are very slim in my opinion so I'm dubious at this point in time before confirmation.

Sioux mentioned the following, "The news media or Idaho didn't reveal that until I posted the Sun Belt's agreement with Idaho."

If so Sioux can you post a link to a story, website someplace that has reported this? I'd love to read it.

PBP

 

[Siouxfan2]

There was a story in either the Spokane or Boise newspapers that had the document finally and said Idaho had to return football to the Big Sky eventually. The Big Sky doesn't want to force Idaho down to FCS, so even the document said "presumably FCS."

There have been all kinds of tweets coming from Park City about the changes in governance rules in FBS will have a big impact on the Big Sky. Haven't seen any good media stories about those tweets. Some referenced how Fullerton thought the rule changes would be really good news.


How anyone thought that Idaho would stay in the Sun Belt indefinitely is beyond me. Idaho had a go with the Sun Belt before and it was disastrous to their football program. Idaho just needed a place to park football for a time, and the Big Sky needed to get rule changes to go FBS. The PAC12 and other P5 conferences love the idea of more conferences at the G5 level: supply and demand for games so the prices won't escalate. The PAC12 has talked about eliminating FCS games (and the B1G has made that a rule going forward). Those conferences have the power to simply lower the bar to make more FCS teams FBS. Simple. Fullerton is trying to best position the Big Sky for what he hopes is an FBS era.

 

[PBP]

For what it's worth I just got a response back from a member of the print media in the Boise market that I read pretty often. Take it for what it may be worth to you:

"Thanks. I've read both agreements closely and there is no definitive statement that Idaho has to go to the Big Sky. Conference certainly indicates it may happen though. I'll keep digging."


Personally I think Idaho will be returning to the Big Sky not because of a contract but because they simply won't be able to survive in the FBS.

As far as the conference moving to the FBS (even under different relaxed rules) I suspect that Fullerton would prefer being, for wont of a better phrase, "a big fish in a small pond as opposed to a small fish in a big pond..." meaning he'd prefer a structurally sound viable Big Sky as the premier FCS conference west of the Mississippi river and one of the top FCS conferences in America as opposed to being say another Sun Belt or American Conference, lost in the wasteland.

But we'll see how it all shakes out.

PBP

 

[boisebengal]

I'll believe it when I see it. If most of the Big Sky schools plan on moving up to play FBS football, then they'd need millions more each year in order to do this. And most are financially strapped as it is. And you can't tell me that they'd make enough extra in money games to cover the added expenses. Only Montana, or possibly one or two others, would even think about doing something like this. When you look at attendance figures for schools like Cal-Davis, Portland State, Weber, and Sac State then the thought is ridiculous.

 

[boisebengal]

I just heard that Idaho's contract is for just a few more years. And after that they could be pushed out since there could be other teams that would want to be in the Sun Belt. When you look at the population base of states that are east of the Mississippi, then that league really has the potential to do well. The Sun Belt really only needs 12 teams to have a championship game. But if the Sun Belt really needs a 12th team to have that game then they'll look to Idaho -- but in the future it appears doubtful. Idaho would never make it as an FBS independent.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Could a conference like this be preferable to ISU?

Seattle
Idaho St*
Weber St*
Utah Valley
S Utah*
Dixie St*
NAU*
Grand Canyon
Bakersfield
N Colo*
Metro State

There would still be enough football schools (*) to stay FCS, but at a reduced scholarship amount.

 

[Siouxfan2]

I'll believe it when I see it. If most of the Big Sky schools plan on moving up to play FBS football, then they'd need millions more each year in order to do this. And most are financially strapped as it is. And you can't tell me that they'd make enough extra in money games to cover the added expenses. Only Montana, or possibly one or two others, would even think about doing something like this. When you look at attendance figures for schools like Cal-Davis, Portland State, Weber, and Sac State then the thought is ridiculous.

UCDavis, Portland St, and Sac St can never get traction for their football programs as the local media views it as DII and second rate compared to the MWC and PAC12. Near NFL or NBA cities, FCS does not work as the public views it as second rate minor leagues. Their alumni would be ecstatic if they moved to FBS. That has been the plan all along. There is no future at the FCS level. You can be the premier conference if FCS, but it doesn't mean diddly. National media is much more interested in the lowest FBS teams, compared to the highest FCS.

I posted the Sun Belt letter on a one-month free imaging service, but I think it expired. If you want, I'll post both the Sun Belt and Big Sky documents links here.

 

[Siouxfan2]

So what do you think of these tweets? NMSU isn't going to any FCS league.


Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: Idaho, New Mexico St. out there as possible 14th Big Sky football members. Only when time is right. #BigSkyKickoff
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Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: "I'm really optimistic that there's some really good things in this new governing structure." #BigSkyKickoff
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Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: New governing structure could be announced in next 10 days involving five major conferences on FBS level. #BigSkyKickoff

 

[PBP]

Please do.

Regarding your comments on Portland State, Sac. State and UC Davis. Again with respect, changing a few letters from FCS to FBS isn't going to change anything in those markets for them regarding media coverage or public interest. To think otherwise in my opinion is delusional.

Portland is a pro town with the Blazers and Timbers. Sacramento has Stanford and Cal right down the road, San Francisco / Oakland isn't that far away. The Hornets will always be near the bottom of the list for coverage.

UC Davis is in the middle of nowhere market wise I've been led to believe, so how is changing to FBS going to help them?

Simply doesn't make sense to think that going to FBS is going to alter the landscape for them in any way, shape or form.

I do know that at one time in an effort to survive the WAC was feeling out PSU, Sac. State and the Montana's but those schools understood the implications of making a move especially to a conference on it's death bed.

Finally the point about ISU joining the WAC and dropping football. Never say never but I can't ever see that happening under any circumstances. Joining the WAC is a nightmare travel-wise and who is to say it's going to survive even as a basketball only conference?

Like with the California schools and the thought that by going FBS suddenly they are going to get a lot of media coverage / fan interest it simply doesn't make sense.

PBP

 

[boisebengal]

I think that most of us here really don't believe you at all Sioux when you say these things, because the idea is too far-fetched. So therefore it really doesn't do any good to sit there and talk about WAC possibilities with ISU included with some other D-2 teams. When a team is very successful at the FCS level and has good support from their boosters, then that would be the thing that would springboard that team into the FBS category. You can't have a bad FCS team with sub-par attendance figures and just fair support try to make the move, in my opinion.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Here's a release from Vandal Nation that is pretty accurate.

http://www.thevandalnation.com/idaho-footballs-new-era-begins-on-june-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some speculation has centered around Big Sky football programs looking for a way into the FBS, but when asked what he’s heard on that front, Spear responded: “Nothing.”

Spear if full of it. The talk of Big Sky presidents and ADs is all about FBS. The Big Sky and WAC have made a sort of truce in my opinion: anyone who doesn't like a Big Sky FBS can walk over to the WAC and start an FCS league.

 

[PBP]

So what do you think of these tweets? NMSU isn't going to any FCS league.


Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: Idaho, New Mexico St. out there as possible 14th Big Sky football members. Only when time is right. #BigSkyKickoff
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 16 times16 FavoriteFavorited 1 time1
More
Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: "I'm really optimistic that there's some really good things in this new governing structure." #BigSkyKickoff
ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 1 time1 FavoriteFavorited 0 times
More
Craig Haley @CraigHaley · Jul 14
Fullerton: New governing structure could be announced in next 10 days involving five major conferences on FBS level. #BigSkyKickoff

Sioux...no they aren't going to an FCS school (unless like Idaho they have no choice...)

And Fullerton is right, assuming the new changes (assuming they actually pass) take place they will be great for the Big Sky and every other FCS lower FBC conference, they can now play their own without having to take on the Oklahoma's, Alabama's, Florida State's of the world with no chance to win and simply doing it for a paycheck.

I don't automatically assume from Doug's comments that he means what you think he does. His track record and that of the Big Sky says otherwise in my opinion.

PBP

 

[PBP]

Here's a release from Vandal Nation that is pretty accurate.

http://www.thevandalnation.com/idaho-footballs-new-era-begins-on-june-1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some speculation has centered around Big Sky football programs looking for a way into the FBS, but when asked what he’s heard on that front, Spear responded: “Nothing.”

Spear if full of it. The talk of Big Sky presidents and ADs is all about FBS. The Big Sky and WAC have made a sort of truce in my opinion: anyone who doesn't like a Big Sky FBS can walk over to the WAC and start an FCS league.

Again Sioux, with respect, I'm still waiting for a link or an attachment or something from a mainstream media organization radio / TV / newspapers to confirm or add more credibility to your comments. Right now all I've seen are comments from message board / fan sites...not the most reliable in my opinion.

I go back to the comment I got earlier from the Boise print media source. "I've read both agreements closely and there is no definitive statement that Idaho has to go to the Big Sky."


By "both agreements" I assume they mean between Idaho and the Big Sky and Idaho and the Sun Belt.

My opinion...they will return not because they wish to but because they have to.

I appreciate your contributions to this thread though, we'll have to see how it all plays out, but I wouldn't place any money on ISU dropping football...moving to the WAC or the Big Sky joining the FBS.

PBP

 

[JJB]

Regarding your comments on Portland State, Sac. State and UC Davis. Again with respect, changing a few letters from FCS to FBS isn't going to change anything in those markets for them regarding media coverage or public interest. To think otherwise in my opinion is delusional.
PBP

Bingo. Portland State hosting North Dakota in an FBS game, rather than in an FCS game, isn't going to automatically jump up the attendance. Sacramento State hosting the likes of Fresno State, Nevada, or San Jose State would jump attendance, but those games would happen every few years - AT BEST.

Pacific, Long Beach State, Fullerton State. Those were FBS (I-A) programs in large media markets, and they couldn't make a go of it. They all dropped football in the last 20 years. Simply being at the top of the division doesn't mean much, especially if you're still competing for attention against the likes of Stanford, Minnesota, USC, UCLA, and so on.

Could the NCAA simply get rid of the FBS and FCS tags and make a single division I, as they do in basketball? Maybe, but as was found out years ago, it's the schools in conferences such as the MWC, MAC, Conference USA, and the Sun Belt who feel threatened the most by diluting the product.