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The weaknesses exposed

Skippy

Active member
I think Montana exposed the areas the Bengals have to improve if they’re going to move to the next level in the Big Sky: rebounding, athleticism up front and bench depth.

It’s been a much better season than expected and it would be fun if Bengals can beat Southern Utah on Tuesday and get their first conference tourney win since 2009.
 
I just find it hard to believe that Evans can be the one to take us there. He's had six years to meet those same goals. Instead we find ourselves wanting to celebrate the end of a conference season that exceeds expectations but is still a losing season
 
Good points. It’s disappointing that a lot of us are excited about a .500 season. We’ve only had 2 winning records in over 20 years. And both those seasons were just 1 game over .500. As you look around the league, it’s pretty clear that this is the toughest coaching job in the league. We all know that but we are Bengal fans and want to see us succeed, but several good coaches have come here and failed. I think fundamentally things need to change. Maybe new arena. Maybe additional funding for staff. Maybe pay cost of attendance. Maybe more funding so we don’t have to play so many “money” games. And if the answer is more funding, where does that money come from? I don’t know.

So here’s my question. Put yourself in Tingey’s shoes. What would you do to make ISU prominent in basketball? I’m at a loss.
 
It always comes down to money at ISU. First, last, always. Don't have the answer as to where it can come from but it would help solve a LOT of issues regarding athletics.

PBP
 
Don't doubt that money is an issue, but just think of Seton. He is the winningest coach in ISU history. He faces the same institutional and recruiting challenges as the men's program, but gets way better results. Are we going to argue that it is somehow easier to win on the women's side in the Big Sky?
 
coastal bengal said:
Don't doubt that money is an issue, but just think of Seton. He is the winningest coach in ISU history. He faces the same institutional and recruiting challenges as the men's program, but gets way better results. Are we going to argue that it is somehow easier to win on the women's side in the Big Sky?

To a certain extent I think it is. Historically there have only been a handful of teams that take WBB seriously in the Big Sky. ISU, Montana, Montana State, Weber State come to mind. (I don't count UND anymore since they are leaving the BSC)

That absolutely takes NOTHING away from the remarkable impact and achievements done by the WBB program, in my opinion, the standard bearer for ISU sports,

I would also argue that recruiting is much different for Seton than on the men's side. Seton now has established a track record of success, that is known around the area and in recruiting circles...makes it a LOT easier to get good talent and the players he recruits seem to take the academic side of things a little more seriously on average. You are going after a different type of player on the women's side as opposed to the men especially given the struggles the men's program has had for decades.

PBP
 
Color me optimistic, but I think overall, this was a good season for the men. BSC is the strongest it’s been in over 10 years, and we played all the top 4 very well. In fact, on a neutral floor, I don’t fear any of these teams. ISU is 1 or 2 juco players especially a 4 man, away from serious contention these next 2 years.. I like this team. Fact is, with minimal home games, getting to 20 wins is a monumental task. I think they can push that number these next 2 years.
 
:thumb:
208alpine said:
I vote this:

Color me optimistic, but I think overall, this was a good season for the men. BSC is the strongest it’s been in over 10 years, and we played all the top 4 very well. In fact, on a neutral floor, I don’t fear any of these teams. ISU is 1 or 2 juco players especially a 4 man, away from serious contention these next 2 years.. I like this team. Fact is, with minimal home games, getting to 20 wins is a monumental task. I think they can push that number these next 2 years.
 
Evans is W58 L119 its not a tough job here compared to other B.S.C. jobs. The jobs here have been considered the best in the conference in the past. There are thousands of seats available to sell and donors will come if the administration would do their job and hire winners with a track record. Mediocre should not be good enough. GO BENGALS
 
Ok 50 yr fan. I’ll play your game. I don’t care about what happened “in the past”. Tell me why, today, ISU is one of the best jobs in the conference right now. Please include all aspects. Financial support, recruiting base, facilities, tradition, etc. Name 1 school in the league that, if you were a non-biased young coach, you would turn down to take the ISU job
 
PBP said:
I would also argue that recruiting is much different for Seton than on the men's side. Seton now has established a track record of success, that is known around the area and in recruiting circles...makes it a LOT easier to get good talent and the players he recruits seem to take the academic side of things a little more seriously on average. You are going after a different type of player on the women's side as opposed to the men especially given the struggles the men's program has had for decades.

PBP

Two of Sobolewski's three predecessors (not counting Lynn Kennedy) were successful, too, so he came into a much better situation than Evans did. Idaho State's men haven't had a truly successful coach in a loooonnngg time.

There also seem to be a lot more DI-caliber recruits in this region in girls' high-school basketball than in boys'. I admittedly don't know much about HS ball in Idaho, but that's certainly true in Montana.
 
Getting back to Brad's original point, yes, Montana exposed ISU's weaknesses last night. But then, Montana has exposed every Big Sky team's weaknesses this year except Idaho and Eastern whom they only played once each and lost to on the road. We played them as tough in Missoula last night than almost any other team but Sac State (yes, the Hornets), who lost in Dahlberg in overtime. The regular season is over and ISU's Jared Stutzman is THE best 3-pt. shooter in college basketball. We've beaten Idaho and Weber State (2 of the top 4) and played tough against the other two...all of that after a 6-win season last year.

I guess I, too, want to know the names of winning coaches with proven track records that want to come to ISU. Who are they?
 
You have to also blame the leadership and not just the coaches. Joe O'Brien was on campus with Paul Bubb before Oliver was done coaching and before the "committee" had even formed. Everybody in the world knew O'Brien would be the coach, and some national media criticized the unprofessional workings of ISU. O'Brien previously walked away from a DI assistant coaching job mid-season, and he was in a JC program which is a placement program. He had no experience in recruiting, and it showed. There were quite a few coaches with a winning background who wasted their time in that bogus search. ISU couldn't afford some of those very same candidates now.

This last time, every person knew the two names were Evans and Louis Wilson. And these were the names before the "committee" was formed. We know somebody had Tingey's ear. I have no problem if the AD just goes out and hires somebody, but these bogus committees waste prospective coaches time and money, and it gives a bad reputation for future searches. Believe me, I know this.

Even Oliver was hired in a chaotic time of "leadership." Irv Cross wanted to flex his power, didn't like Herb Williams, and showed him the door. Oliver knew basketball, but he was smug, didn't do much to sell ISU basketball, and brought in some characters who shouldn't have been in this community. I'm not going to name names, but unless you're in denial, you know who they were.

There are pluses and minuses with ISU, just as there are with many other schools. The problem is, there are many within ISU and the community who have a martyr complex. Many will say the dome kills any chance at a successful program. When it's brought up that Idaho and NAU face the same problems but have had some level of success in recent years, those who want to defend ISU's failure will say ISU has it worse. The very same people who say that ISU has a lack of success because of the dome then turn around and say we''ll never get one because one single person isn't having any success raising money. When some bring up the rural nature of other schools and their success in some sports, like SUU in football, the defenders of ISU's failure will tell you it's different "just because."

Sure, money solves a lot of problems. But what the Hell has ISU done differently over the past few years? As has been argued on here before, the games are ridiculously over priced. Nothing has been done to improve the experience at Reed. The coaches shows are exactly the same now as they were 20 years ago - this in a new age of social media. The marketing is bush league, at best. The ISU Bengals website still has 3 or more year old info on it. The inside of the dome really does look like a billboard museum. Is it any wonder why some of the sports seem like they're treading water when the overall look of the athletic department seems in disarray most of the time?
 
mvem said:
Two of Sobolewski's three predecessors (not counting Lynn Kennedy) were successful, too, so he came into a much better situation than Evans did. Idaho State's men haven't had a truly successful coach in a loooonnngg time.

There also seem to be a lot more DI-caliber recruits in this region in girls' high-school basketball than in boys'. I admittedly don't know much about HS ball in Idaho, but that's certainly true in Montana.

I agree with you to an extent although in fairness remember Seton's first year he had to have open tryouts because he had only eight players. That's how he found Kari Green.

When Jon left he took a few players with him, his recruits turned out to be knuckleheads which Seton had to get rid of because of academic issues and breaking the law and Chelsea Pickering blew out her ACL. It was far from an ideal situation.

Seton also had to play his first eight games on the road or at neutral sites because of the schedule Jon put together even though he knew both Natalie Doma and Andrea Lightfoot were graduating.

Again I agree with your overall assessment but the situation was far from ideal.

And from a historical point it wasn't Lynn Kennedy who was unsuccessful, it was Shirley Huyett who was basically relieved of her duties 20 games into the season after she took over for Ardie McInelly. Lynn was named interim head coach for the final seven games after her and her husband (the top assistant were let go). Lynn was the last man standing in the office.

PBP
 
JJB said:
You have to also blame the leadership and not just the coaches. Joe O'Brien was on campus with Paul Bubb before Oliver was done coaching and before the "committee" had even formed. Everybody in the world knew O'Brien would be the coach, and some national media criticized the unprofessional workings of ISU. O'Brien previously walked away from a DI assistant coaching job mid-season, and he was in a JC program which is a placement program. He had no experience in recruiting, and it showed. There were quite a few coaches with a winning background who wasted their time in that bogus search. ISU couldn't afford some of those very same candidates now.

This last time, every person knew the two names were Evans and Louis Wilson. And these were the names before the "committee" was formed. We know somebody had Tingey's ear. I have no problem if the AD just goes out and hires somebody, but these bogus committees waste prospective coaches time and money, and it gives a bad reputation for future searches. Believe me, I know this.

Even Oliver was hired in a chaotic time of "leadership." Irv Cross wanted to flex his power, didn't like Herb Williams, and showed him the door. Oliver knew basketball, but he was smug, didn't do much to sell ISU basketball, and brought in some characters who shouldn't have been in this community. I'm not going to name names, but unless you're in denial, you know who they were.

There are pluses and minuses with ISU, just as there are with many other schools. The problem is, there are many within ISU and the community who have a martyr complex. Many will say the dome kills any chance at a successful program. When it's brought up that Idaho and NAU face the same problems but have had some level of success in recent years, those who want to defend ISU's failure will say ISU has it worse. The very same people who say that ISU has a lack of success because of the dome then turn around and say we''ll never get one because one single person isn't having any success raising money. When some bring up the rural nature of other schools and their success in some sports, like SUU in football, the defenders of ISU's failure will tell you it's different "just because."

Sure, money solves a lot of problems. But what the Hell has ISU done differently over the past few years? As has been argued on here before, the games are ridiculously over priced. Nothing has been done to improve the experience at Reed. The coaches shows are exactly the same now as they were 20 years ago - this in a new age of social media. The marketing is bush league, at best. The ISU Bengals website still has 3 or more year old info on it. The inside of the dome really does look like a billboard museum. Is it any wonder why some of the sports seem like they're treading water when the overall look of the athletic department seems in disarray most of the time?

You bring up some some interesting points and well worth thinking over. I am curious though if you have any concrete suggestions for the coaches show? Not saying anything will change... that's way above my pay grade but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

PBP
 
208alpine said:
. ISU is 1 or 2 juco players especially a 4 man, away from serious contention these next 2 years.. I like this team.

To get 1 or 2 JUCO players, who don't generally fit in right away, you need to get rid of 1 or 2 players. We know next year we have all the scholarships taken, at least as of now.

Novak Topalovic
Jared Stutzman
Brandon Boyd
Gary Chivichyan
Balint Moscan
Lyle Sutton
Blake Truman
Jake McCord
Callum Kimberly
Sam Dowd
Brayden Parker
Austin Smellie
Las Vegas Guard?

So who leaves or who gets cut? Do you get a JC guy who you're sure can be here in the summer?
 
PBP said:
mvem said:
Two of Sobolewski's three predecessors (not counting Lynn Kennedy) were successful, too, so he came into a much better situation than Evans did. Idaho State's men haven't had a truly successful coach in a loooonnngg time.

There also seem to be a lot more DI-caliber recruits in this region in girls' high-school basketball than in boys'. I admittedly don't know much about HS ball in Idaho, but that's certainly true in Montana.

I agree with you to an extent although in fairness remember Seton's first year he had to have open tryouts because he had only eight players. That's how he found Kari Green.

When Jon left he took a few players with him, his recruits turned out to be knuckleheads which Seton had to get rid of because of academic issues and breaking the law and Chelsea Pickering blew out her ACL. It was far from an ideal situation.

Seton also had to play his first eight games on the road or at neutral sites because of the schedule Jon put together even though he knew both Natalie Doma and Andrea Lightfoot were graduating.

Again I agree with your overall assessment but the situation was far from ideal.

And from a historical point it wasn't Lynn Kennedy who was unsuccessful, it was Shirley Huyett who was basically relieved of her duties 20 games into the season after she took over for Ardie McInelly. Lynn was named interim head coach for the final seven games after her and her husband (the top assistant were let go). Lynn was the last man standing in the office.

PBP

What exactly went on with the Shirley Huyett situation? I recall a post made about it awhile ago but I have no idea where it was posted and the searches turn up nothing. I hear there was a mutiny or something. Out of curiosity, could you give the background on that?
 
PBP said:
mvem said:
Two of Sobolewski's three predecessors (not counting Lynn Kennedy) were successful, too, so he came into a much better situation than Evans did. Idaho State's men haven't had a truly successful coach in a loooonnngg time.

There also seem to be a lot more DI-caliber recruits in this region in girls' high-school basketball than in boys'. I admittedly don't know much about HS ball in Idaho, but that's certainly true in Montana.

I agree with you to an extent although in fairness remember Seton's first year he had to have open tryouts because he had only eight players. That's how he found Kari Green.

When Jon left he took a few players with him, his recruits turned out to be knuckleheads which Seton had to get rid of because of academic issues and breaking the law and Chelsea Pickering blew out her ACL. It was far from an ideal situation.

Seton also had to play his first eight games on the road or at neutral sites because of the schedule Jon put together even though he knew both Natalie Doma and Andrea Lightfoot were graduating.

Again I agree with your overall assessment but the situation was far from ideal.

And from a historical point it wasn't Lynn Kennedy who was unsuccessful, it was Shirley Huyett who was basically relieved of her duties 20 games into the season after she took over for Ardie McInelly. Lynn was named interim head coach for the final seven games after her and her husband (the top assistant were let go). Lynn was the last man standing in the office.

PBP

I meant the last 3 coaches other than Kennedy because he was interim (I was ignoring him entirely). I was counting Huyett as the unsuccessful one, and McInelly & Newlee as the successful ones… even with Newlee's dubious exit as you document above.
 
What exactly went on with the Shirley Huyett situation? I recall a post made about it awhile ago but I have no idea where it was posted and the searches turn up nothing. I hear there was a mutiny or something. Out of curiosity, could you give the background on that?

Oh I can fill you in on that when I get a chance to breathe over here at UNM, which might be in a few months. Mutiny is one way to put it...

Former ISU SID
 
"What exactly went on with the Shirley Huyett situation? I recall a post made about it awhile ago but I have no idea where it was posted and the searches turn up nothing. I hear there was a mutiny or something. Out of curiosity, could you give the background on that?
[/quote]

Basically this. Huyett was given rave reviews by her college in So. Oregon because as it turned out, THEY WANTED TO GET RID OF HER! ISU unfortunately was sold a bill of goods.

Huyett took over a team THAT HAD EVERYBODY BACK from the previous year who went 25-5, won 21 in a row, 16-0 in BSC play and played Vanderbilt in the NCAA Tournament.

They started off slow and some of her ideas were strange to say the least. The capper may have been at Holt Arena when someone forgot to check Mandi Carver as starting that night's game. I can personally tell you this is true because it happened literally a few feet in front of where I was sitting on press row. When Carver found out she exploded and called Huyett every name in the book. Huyett stood there and took it from Mandi.

I happened to be in the athletic department a few days later I guess (I don't remember the exact time frame) when Mandi and a few players walked in. They marched right into A.D. Howard Gauthier's office. I thought that was strange because they were supposed to be practicing in the afternoon at Holt and the court was empty.

Turns out Mandi told Howard that the team would not play or practice until she (and by proxy her husband) were let go.

A few days later she was placed on leave (basically fired) and Lynn was named interim coach for the last seven games.

When I see Lynn, now at Portland State, every year we talk about it. He told me one time, "what did I get into?" (LOL)

Huyett I think sued ISU over it but I don't know if the lawsuit went anywhere.

Jon Newlee was then brought in to take over that summer.

I'm sure Frank has a lot more stories but this should get you through for now.

PBP
 

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