....can't say i'm not disappointed....thought we would win between 4 and 7 games this year....the ones we did plus UC Davis, SUU, Portland State and Webber (spelled just as i meant to)....not sold on Arias as i don't think he progressed as i thought he would through the season...i thought Tingey should have extended Kramer's contract for two more years after the first year was up and the reality of the APR problems was surfacing ....now i'm thinking it might look strange when you look at the last three seasons....i DO believe in Kramer....BUT honest to God i thought we would pull out a couple of wins....especially when you consider this year's schedule did not include either of the Montana schools nor Cal Poly....anyone else's thoughts....this loss to Webber (spelled just as i meant to) shocked me....... come on....someone cheer me up ...please.... :roll:
-
Hi Guest,
We've updated the site to combine all the forums that were part of the Big Sky Fans Network into one location. This will make it easier to navigate and participate in all the discussions for each school without having to have multiple accounts, etc. We are still working out some tweaks but please let us know if you notice anything.
With the migration, in some circumstances, your username could have been merged with one of your other usernames from the other forums. If this is the case, you can request to change your username in your account details page of your profile. -
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your eGriz.com experience today!
-
Guest, do want an ad free experience on BigSkyFans.com among other benefits? Upgrade your account today!
Simply click your profile name > account upgrades > BigSky Club > choose between the year long subscription (two free months) or month to month
Thanks for the continued support. Cheers!
Thoughts on the 2013 season
- Thread starter clawsout
- Start date
Irwin M. Fletcher
Active member
Disappointed, yes, but not dismayed. The product on the field was significantly better than last year (don't even start UFTC). A handful of plays were the difference between 3 wins and 6. I'm still completely sold on Kramer and co. Patience.
up for the challenge
Active member
I thought the 2013 team played competitive football this season and played tough until the very end. Coach Kramer is trying to get this program in shape and I am behind him 100%. The only concern I have with the program is that there appears to be no "active recruiting" with JUCO players for positions of need on the team. I mean active recruiting by actually connecting with the JUCO head coaches, visiting the campuses, pulling academic records, and visiting with players of interest. There are some good students and good players in these JUCO's and I think we have a need to fill in those positions that are needed for the 2014 season. All we need is a few game breakers and we will start winning more games in the Big Sky. Just sayin
Good Luck with the Recruiting Process.
Happy Holidays...
Good Luck with the Recruiting Process.
Happy Holidays...
tuffgong
Active member
The defense was good enough to get us 5-6 wins this year. The QB is not. Until we have a real game changer at QB, we will struggle. I'm not a Justin Arias hater. He is just not a standout. And anymore, a team can only go as far as a QB will take them. ESPECIALLY in the offense that ISU employs. With that said, I could see ISU winning 5-6 games next year.
I agree with tuffgong in that I think the offense was the biggest disappointment this year. Hopefully with an improving and maturing line, that will continue to get better.
Last year, ISU lost Big Sky conference games by an average of 38 points a game. This year, we lost by an average of 13 points a game to 3 of the 4 Big Sky playoff teams - Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, and Eastern Washington. Defense is much better, and it's also improving.
Speaking of Big Sky playoff teams (Montana is the 4th conference playoff team), what in the world happened to Montana State this season? Wasn't this supposed to be their year? They didn't make the playoffs, and they looked less impressive as the season went on.
Last year, ISU lost Big Sky conference games by an average of 38 points a game. This year, we lost by an average of 13 points a game to 3 of the 4 Big Sky playoff teams - Southern Utah, Northern Arizona, and Eastern Washington. Defense is much better, and it's also improving.
Speaking of Big Sky playoff teams (Montana is the 4th conference playoff team), what in the world happened to Montana State this season? Wasn't this supposed to be their year? They didn't make the playoffs, and they looked less impressive as the season went on.
up for the challenge
Active member
Folks, there has been no word from the media or from the ISU Athletic Department that Coach Kramer has been given an extension onto his contract. That is not good news!
If Coach Kramer does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks the writing maybe on the wall if he does not have a winning season at the end of the 2014 season. If he does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks, look for Coach Kramer to sign mostly JUCO players and obtain Step Down players as he cannot take a chance on incoming freshmen to help his program win in 2014. He has to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014 otherwise Coach Kramer and his assistant coaches contracts may not be renewed at the end of 2014.
Go get those JUCO players and step down players Coach Kramer this recruiting season as you have done what you had to do to get the APR's corrected over the last 3 seasons. It is your turn now to recruit and sign who you want to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014. Fill the 2014 recruiting class with 70% JUCO players and Step Down players and you will win in 2014 and you will be given an extension onto your contract at the end of the 2014 season.
Folks, I do not see any other way. Coach Kramer has to win in 2014. He just cannot take a chance on young players for this upcoming recruiting class to win games for him. He has to sign experienced college players that gives him the best chance of winning games in the Big Sky otherwise his contract may not be renewed.
I am sure I will get a lot of disagreements from posters about recruiting and signing JUCO players and obtaining Step Down players but that is okay. The topic on "Thoughts on the 2013 Season" is a good topic by the way.
If Coach Kramer does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks the writing maybe on the wall if he does not have a winning season at the end of the 2014 season. If he does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks, look for Coach Kramer to sign mostly JUCO players and obtain Step Down players as he cannot take a chance on incoming freshmen to help his program win in 2014. He has to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014 otherwise Coach Kramer and his assistant coaches contracts may not be renewed at the end of 2014.
Go get those JUCO players and step down players Coach Kramer this recruiting season as you have done what you had to do to get the APR's corrected over the last 3 seasons. It is your turn now to recruit and sign who you want to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014. Fill the 2014 recruiting class with 70% JUCO players and Step Down players and you will win in 2014 and you will be given an extension onto your contract at the end of the 2014 season.
Folks, I do not see any other way. Coach Kramer has to win in 2014. He just cannot take a chance on young players for this upcoming recruiting class to win games for him. He has to sign experienced college players that gives him the best chance of winning games in the Big Sky otherwise his contract may not be renewed.
I am sure I will get a lot of disagreements from posters about recruiting and signing JUCO players and obtaining Step Down players but that is okay. The topic on "Thoughts on the 2013 Season" is a good topic by the way.
For what it's worth I spoke with Mike today about the season for an upcoming story in the Times-News, if he is under any type of pressure he didn't show it. He is very optimistic about next season and I don't think his contract situation will impact in anyway his decisions on who to offer scholarships to or recruit.
He's in this for the long haul and has repeatedly said he differs in the way to build the program as opposed to some of the previous head coaches who went the "quick-fix" route.
PBP
He's in this for the long haul and has repeatedly said he differs in the way to build the program as opposed to some of the previous head coaches who went the "quick-fix" route.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
It all boils down to whether or not Coach Kramer receives an extension to his current contract in the next week or two and what is discussed behind closed doors. That will decide what percentage of players he recruits and signs (high school and JUCO's) for the 2014 season. He may save a few scholarships for current walk-ons or Step Downs but that all depends on his situation. I think Coach Kramer knows all about the "quick fix" route by giving walk-on scholarships that had high GPA's but he did what he had to do to fix the APR problem. To suggest that JUCO student-athletes is a "quick fix" is non-sense. Tell that to Yost, Henley, and Arias as Coach Kramer recruited and signed these guys or any other JUCO student-athlete that received a scholarship from ISU in the past and graduated.
Up:
Unfortunately the counter would be the number of guys under John (again I'm not saying this to be rude to him, you won't find a better man) that decided to blow off classes, get into trouble and then not win on the football field either. I mean seriously...the NCAA wasn't ready to shut down the program because they simply didn't like the city of Pocatello...
If you heard the postgame interview Saturday Mike used some strong words to describe them (and did so again in the Journal on Sunday his quote on that was highlighted in a seperate box).
Based on what I know, and what I've heard (granted I'm not behind closed doors or in the offices of the athletic department) I know of no pressure on Mike, no 'deadline' in the next two weeks regarding his contract situation and would be very, very, very shocked if the fact that he's entering the final year of his deal influences in any way who he recruits, where they are from in a college athletic sense and who he offers a scholarship to.
We'll have to wait and see who is closer to the truth on this.
PBP
Unfortunately the counter would be the number of guys under John (again I'm not saying this to be rude to him, you won't find a better man) that decided to blow off classes, get into trouble and then not win on the football field either. I mean seriously...the NCAA wasn't ready to shut down the program because they simply didn't like the city of Pocatello...
If you heard the postgame interview Saturday Mike used some strong words to describe them (and did so again in the Journal on Sunday his quote on that was highlighted in a seperate box).
Based on what I know, and what I've heard (granted I'm not behind closed doors or in the offices of the athletic department) I know of no pressure on Mike, no 'deadline' in the next two weeks regarding his contract situation and would be very, very, very shocked if the fact that he's entering the final year of his deal influences in any way who he recruits, where they are from in a college athletic sense and who he offers a scholarship to.
We'll have to wait and see who is closer to the truth on this.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
PCB,
I guess the people within the ISU Athletic Department know the real truth about the APR mess under Zamberlin. I do not believe it was 100% of the JUCO players on the ISU team that created the entire APR mess but I maybe wrong. All I know is that there have been and will continue to be JUCO players offered scholarships that will graduate whether it be at ISU or another college.
I guess the people within the ISU Athletic Department know the real truth about the APR mess under Zamberlin. I do not believe it was 100% of the JUCO players on the ISU team that created the entire APR mess but I maybe wrong. All I know is that there have been and will continue to be JUCO players offered scholarships that will graduate whether it be at ISU or another college.
More chum on the water from Up. Okay, I'll bite.
Two days ago, you said this: "The only concern I have with the program is that there appears to be no "active recruiting" with JUCO players for positions of need on the team."
Yesterday, you said this, "If he does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks, look for Coach Kramer to sign mostly JUCO players and obtain Step Down players as he cannot take a chance on incoming freshmen to help his program win in 2014."
So you're suggesting that if Mike doesn't get a contract extension in two weeks, all of a sudden he's going to completely reverse his postion and start recruiting JC kids in time for the Dec. 18 signing date? Wow, that would truly be amazing that he could start building all of those relationships with recruits and coaches that you said he doesn't have now, get them on campus for visits and get them signed in ONE WEEK. Or....maybe you are just so thoroughly enjoying the responses you are generating here, that you don't really believe the BS you are spewing?
Yeah, I'm going with B.
Two days ago, you said this: "The only concern I have with the program is that there appears to be no "active recruiting" with JUCO players for positions of need on the team."
Yesterday, you said this, "If he does not get a contract extension in the next two weeks, look for Coach Kramer to sign mostly JUCO players and obtain Step Down players as he cannot take a chance on incoming freshmen to help his program win in 2014."
So you're suggesting that if Mike doesn't get a contract extension in two weeks, all of a sudden he's going to completely reverse his postion and start recruiting JC kids in time for the Dec. 18 signing date? Wow, that would truly be amazing that he could start building all of those relationships with recruits and coaches that you said he doesn't have now, get them on campus for visits and get them signed in ONE WEEK. Or....maybe you are just so thoroughly enjoying the responses you are generating here, that you don't really believe the BS you are spewing?
Yeah, I'm going with B.
mighty_bengals
Active member
Hey, I'd take it easy on Up if I were you. I think she's probably just a 5th or 6th grader just trying to join in the conversation and learn how things are done around here.
up for the challenge
Active member
Skippy - Do you think we need "AT NEED" or JUCO players for the 2014 season? I believe we do. There is no chum or BS. I gave my suggestions and my concerns based on the 2013 season as I gave a free pass to Coach Kramer like others on this board for the 2011 and 2012 seasons. No free pass for the 2013 season for me. I have not heard your suggestions or concerns about the program. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions about the program? Maybe, you just do not like the idea of JUCO players from Arizona and California playing at ISU as they are not local kids from Idaho. Personally, I do not care where they come from as it is up to Coach Kramer to recruit and sign players that can win games in the Big Sky.
I think you have to build a solid foundation with freshmen for a number of reasons, but most importantly because they make success more sustainable over the long term. We've discussed the APR situation and the higher academic standards ad nauseum, but they are real -- Idaho State simply cannot allow itself to fall into that APR hole again. It might well be the end of football at ISU.
That said, I have absolutely no problem with taking junior college or Division I transfers, and I think you'll see ISU do just that. As I've noted earlier, ISU recruited more transfers last year than most of the Big Sky -- but it was not a big number, because most of the Big Sky is going away from large numbers of transfers because of the APR situation. But if Mike Kramer can find good kids and good students who are also good players in the JUCO or D-1 ranks, by all means, sign them. He's done it in the past, and I fully expect him to do it in the future. Do I think it will be a panacea, or that signing transfers will automatically translate into victories? Nope. But if he can find a difference maker or two, that would be awesome.
The bottom line for the ISU program is that they have to sign good high school players, keep them in the program (that has been a HUGE issue over the past 10 years), and develop them, so that by the time they are juniors and seniors, they are significant contributors. If you go back and look at the ISU signing classes over the past decade, I'd be willing to bet that 60 to 65 percent of the kids who signed never finished their careers at ISU, or never became a significant contributor. That led to the APR issues, and it led to lousy football.
I don't give "passes" to coaches at ISU because, ultimately, they have to win. The ISU athletic department desperately needs for its two marque programs: football and men's basketball -- to start winning games again. Nobody denies that.
Where I differ from a lot of folks on this board is that I try to place things into historical context. Idaho State football has been largely terrible for much of its existence. Sure there have been exceptions -- 1981 and 1983, the only two times we made the playoffs; Brian McNeeley had a modicum of success in the mid-1990s; and of course, the 2002-2003 8-win teams. But nothing has been sustainable, and there have been long stretches of really, really bad football in between.
Since Dave Kragthorpe left, we've hired a local high school legend, two PAC-10 (now 12) assistants, an NFL coordinator, a junior college coach, a D-11 coach -- and now, a guy who has won four Big Sky titles at two different institutions. What's the common denominator: well, other than the current coach, they've all been fired. So that tells me that there is a lot more at work here than just bad coaching. There are a lot of systemic issues that have made Idaho State a career killer for coaches, a list far too long to go into here.
In light of that history, I'm more than willing to give Mike Kramer plenty of time to try to build this program (I won't say "re-build," because that implies there was a foundation to begin with). Because if Mike can't get it done here, history tells us there may not be anybody else who can.
That said, I have absolutely no problem with taking junior college or Division I transfers, and I think you'll see ISU do just that. As I've noted earlier, ISU recruited more transfers last year than most of the Big Sky -- but it was not a big number, because most of the Big Sky is going away from large numbers of transfers because of the APR situation. But if Mike Kramer can find good kids and good students who are also good players in the JUCO or D-1 ranks, by all means, sign them. He's done it in the past, and I fully expect him to do it in the future. Do I think it will be a panacea, or that signing transfers will automatically translate into victories? Nope. But if he can find a difference maker or two, that would be awesome.
The bottom line for the ISU program is that they have to sign good high school players, keep them in the program (that has been a HUGE issue over the past 10 years), and develop them, so that by the time they are juniors and seniors, they are significant contributors. If you go back and look at the ISU signing classes over the past decade, I'd be willing to bet that 60 to 65 percent of the kids who signed never finished their careers at ISU, or never became a significant contributor. That led to the APR issues, and it led to lousy football.
I don't give "passes" to coaches at ISU because, ultimately, they have to win. The ISU athletic department desperately needs for its two marque programs: football and men's basketball -- to start winning games again. Nobody denies that.
Where I differ from a lot of folks on this board is that I try to place things into historical context. Idaho State football has been largely terrible for much of its existence. Sure there have been exceptions -- 1981 and 1983, the only two times we made the playoffs; Brian McNeeley had a modicum of success in the mid-1990s; and of course, the 2002-2003 8-win teams. But nothing has been sustainable, and there have been long stretches of really, really bad football in between.
Since Dave Kragthorpe left, we've hired a local high school legend, two PAC-10 (now 12) assistants, an NFL coordinator, a junior college coach, a D-11 coach -- and now, a guy who has won four Big Sky titles at two different institutions. What's the common denominator: well, other than the current coach, they've all been fired. So that tells me that there is a lot more at work here than just bad coaching. There are a lot of systemic issues that have made Idaho State a career killer for coaches, a list far too long to go into here.
In light of that history, I'm more than willing to give Mike Kramer plenty of time to try to build this program (I won't say "re-build," because that implies there was a foundation to begin with). Because if Mike can't get it done here, history tells us there may not be anybody else who can.
up for the challenge
Active member
Skippy
I'm sure Coach Kramer has a chalk board indicating the positions of need for the 2014 season. The question is, "Will he fill those positions of need with current players on the team or will he sign JUCO players or obtain Step Down players for those positions of need to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014"? We already know the high school players that he will be signing will be redshirted or will not play much as a true freshmen. We will know on National Letter of Intent Day as that will tell us what he plans to do for the upcoming 2014 season.
I'm sure Coach Kramer has a chalk board indicating the positions of need for the 2014 season. The question is, "Will he fill those positions of need with current players on the team or will he sign JUCO players or obtain Step Down players for those positions of need to have a winning season in the Big Sky in 2014"? We already know the high school players that he will be signing will be redshirted or will not play much as a true freshmen. We will know on National Letter of Intent Day as that will tell us what he plans to do for the upcoming 2014 season.
Filling a roster is a gradual process: you have the early signing period for JUCOS, the February signing period for high school players and JUCOs who won't be eligible for spring football, and then the rest of the off-season to add D-1 transfers and other late signees. And of course, you hope your redshirts and other returnees come back to spring ball bigger, stronger and faster.
When we talked with Mike on the post-game show Saturday, he said his priorities are finding a "home-run hitter" on offense, a rush-side linebacker and defensive backs, both safeties and corners. When I asked him where he was going to get those kids, he was not specific, although that is when he launched into his dissertation on the importance of signing young men of character, vs. just those with football skills. Bottom line: stay tuned.
When we talked with Mike on the post-game show Saturday, he said his priorities are finding a "home-run hitter" on offense, a rush-side linebacker and defensive backs, both safeties and corners. When I asked him where he was going to get those kids, he was not specific, although that is when he launched into his dissertation on the importance of signing young men of character, vs. just those with football skills. Bottom line: stay tuned.
up for the challenge
Active member
Skppy - according to boisebengal on November 23, 2013 about JUCO recruits. Maybe, Coach Kramer is out recruiting JUCO players?
boisebengal said: we've already offered Travis Zimmerman, a center from Iowa Western CC, Gabriel West, a DB from Pasadena City CC, and we had offered Glen Antoine, a DT from Highland CC, Kansas, before he committed to Idaho?
boisebengal said: we've already offered Travis Zimmerman, a center from Iowa Western CC, Gabriel West, a DB from Pasadena City CC, and we had offered Glen Antoine, a DT from Highland CC, Kansas, before he committed to Idaho?
blackfootbengal
Active member
Do you ever read anyone's posts all the way through. No one including Kramer has ever said that ISU will not recruit JC players. I'll explain JC recruiting again and see if you can grasp the concept. You recruit JC players for positions of need on your team. Zimmerman is a G/C, we want Wingrove at G and Namohala has not gotten bigger. A quick fix, recruit a JC with what you want. With the emergence of Diehm, this may be on a back burner. If you take the time to look, you will see that every time Kramer recruits a JC there is an immediate need at that position. In Kramer's first year we needed skill players; five WR's and two QB's. Last year we needed Linebackers; four JC linebackers. Ask yourself, what do we need next year? Kramer told us in his last few interviews. We need Corners, for depth and possibly starters. What you don't do is try and build your entire team on JC players. If you did you would be reloading every two years. Some positions are more reactionary than others and depending on how complicated your schemes are, it may take two years to learn everything you have to do. It usually takes at least one year for a JC to pick up his assignments thus you only get one really good year out of them. Another problem today is everyone wants the High Academic kids. Even the Florida States of the world are less willing to take a chance on a risk player. Thus, we have to recruit against those teams for players that we used to get with no problem. No one wants to risk going into APR he!! in todays world.
