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time for this staff to go
- Thread starter Guychamp
- Start date
scooter1
Active member
Scott Hood quoting Mike Cramer, the Bengals' head coach in Scott's recap of the game; "“We beat a team we should have beat. All things being said, we are a better football team,” Idaho State coach Mike Kramer said."
Now this certainly may be true - at least the Bengals are a much better coached team (more on that below). Regardless, I am aware that Kramer is trying to build a winning attitude in a program that has struggled for a decade or more, but this is something you say in private to your team, not for public consumption (unless of course he intentionally wants to ridicule).
When Barnum has KD sticking to shorter passing routes, KD is far more effective and gives the receivers an opportunity to create something. Every time the Viks went deep the defense was in position to make a play (and obviously did on several occasions). And when in the middle of the 4th quarter, when only down 10, the defense gave the home team the chance to turn things around, the Viks moved the ball down the field with short outlets and the running game. We end up inside the 1 yard line with first down and we don't even try to "run" it in ? Whatever momentum and positive energy we had at that time (and we certainly needed some momentum) was sucked out in to space. Had we scored we would have given a pumped up defense the adrenalin to hopefully make another stop - but no, hope was not in the cards, only desperation.
Barnum has been saying for weeks the need to put KD in a position to succeed, but over and over again undermines that possibility in order to make the "big play" - Why? To get the crowd into it ? What crowd ? To energize the team ? If they're not motivated enough already then that's a whole other issue!
And a note to Kramer: The Viks didn't lose to a "better football team" ; they lost to a better "coached team" - call it what it is or keep it to yourself.
Now this certainly may be true - at least the Bengals are a much better coached team (more on that below). Regardless, I am aware that Kramer is trying to build a winning attitude in a program that has struggled for a decade or more, but this is something you say in private to your team, not for public consumption (unless of course he intentionally wants to ridicule).
When Barnum has KD sticking to shorter passing routes, KD is far more effective and gives the receivers an opportunity to create something. Every time the Viks went deep the defense was in position to make a play (and obviously did on several occasions). And when in the middle of the 4th quarter, when only down 10, the defense gave the home team the chance to turn things around, the Viks moved the ball down the field with short outlets and the running game. We end up inside the 1 yard line with first down and we don't even try to "run" it in ? Whatever momentum and positive energy we had at that time (and we certainly needed some momentum) was sucked out in to space. Had we scored we would have given a pumped up defense the adrenalin to hopefully make another stop - but no, hope was not in the cards, only desperation.
Barnum has been saying for weeks the need to put KD in a position to succeed, but over and over again undermines that possibility in order to make the "big play" - Why? To get the crowd into it ? What crowd ? To energize the team ? If they're not motivated enough already then that's a whole other issue!
And a note to Kramer: The Viks didn't lose to a "better football team" ; they lost to a better "coached team" - call it what it is or keep it to yourself.
Guychamp said:
I'm not saying I disagree with you, but if Burton has one more year, wouldn't it be safe to assume that he'll be back next season? It seems like if they weren't able to afford to stay in hotels on game days, they aren't going to be able to pay Burton and a new head coach.
scooter said:
Good point.
If I won a BSC road game where the home team had just about the same offensive yards, gave you 131 yards via 13 penalties, and gave you the ball six times, I'd probably keep my mouth shut and go home.
I wonder who we'll see at QB next week in Bozeman. I know you always tell QBs to have a short memory with regards to past performances, but a fumble and four picks seems hard to shake.
bigskyconf
Active member
scooter said:
Kramer has always been the one to put the "ass" in class.
Kramer has had a beef with Burton ever since we hung 77 points on them a couple years ago. It is easier to say the other coach ran up the score than to admit your team quit on you (which is exactly what the Bengals did back then).
Not sure all this "fire the coaches" stuff is fair. Bad calls? We run on first and goal and don't make it, you complain about the call. We pass of first and goal and don't make it, you complain about the call. Having occasionally followed the Duck and Beaver blogs, I realize that "fire the coaches" is bloggers' favorite remedy for all team problems.
We started this year with two potentially great quarterbacks. KM, unfortunately hasn't been consistent since his injury at the end of last season. One wonders whether he'll ever regain the form that had him at the top of the Big Sky. Paris Penn goes down with a shoulder injury and it looked to me as if he reinjured it yesterday. So, as a coach, you have your number one quarterback misfiring and your number two injured. Based on what we saw yesterday, I'm not sure our number three is ready for prime time yet. Is it play calling or quarterback judgment? There was one play, an incomplete pass, where Mc passed into double coverage when there was a receiver wide open (and I mean wide...no one within 10 yards of him) in the middle of the field jumping up an down waving his arms trying to get attention.
And, I think we win that game yesterday if we have an effective quarterback. The ISU coach was correct in saying his team should have beaten PSU...he may not have meant it this way, but I think that's based on quarterback play, not on the strength of his overall team. Overall, WITH AN EFFECTIVE QUARTERBACK, I think this year's Vikings would be a considerably better team than the Bengals. Our defense played well enough to win. And, one of their touchdowns (maybe two) was a gimme from us. They are very beatable and, if they get into the playoffs, it'll be a quick one and out. They would not be a good representative for the Big Sky. I think the Vikings overall have better personnel than ISU...again just based on what I saw yesterday.
But, without an effective quarterback, overall talent isn't enough to win many games. And having said all this, I also have to add that I feel very sorry for Mc...he's a class kid.
We started this year with two potentially great quarterbacks. KM, unfortunately hasn't been consistent since his injury at the end of last season. One wonders whether he'll ever regain the form that had him at the top of the Big Sky. Paris Penn goes down with a shoulder injury and it looked to me as if he reinjured it yesterday. So, as a coach, you have your number one quarterback misfiring and your number two injured. Based on what we saw yesterday, I'm not sure our number three is ready for prime time yet. Is it play calling or quarterback judgment? There was one play, an incomplete pass, where Mc passed into double coverage when there was a receiver wide open (and I mean wide...no one within 10 yards of him) in the middle of the field jumping up an down waving his arms trying to get attention.
And, I think we win that game yesterday if we have an effective quarterback. The ISU coach was correct in saying his team should have beaten PSU...he may not have meant it this way, but I think that's based on quarterback play, not on the strength of his overall team. Overall, WITH AN EFFECTIVE QUARTERBACK, I think this year's Vikings would be a considerably better team than the Bengals. Our defense played well enough to win. And, one of their touchdowns (maybe two) was a gimme from us. They are very beatable and, if they get into the playoffs, it'll be a quick one and out. They would not be a good representative for the Big Sky. I think the Vikings overall have better personnel than ISU...again just based on what I saw yesterday.
But, without an effective quarterback, overall talent isn't enough to win many games. And having said all this, I also have to add that I feel very sorry for Mc...he's a class kid.
goviks2 said:
I'd say that I saw a lot of judgement errors yesterday. Isn't it rule #1 for QBs that an incompletion is always better than a turnover? There were many times where balls were thrown at receivers where there were two and sometimes three defenders very close. There was also a play down the left side where there was single coverage. However, our receiver was actually getting beat down the field and he tried to put the ball over the top. Either put that ball short and let our receiver make a play on the ball, move on to the next progression, run, or throw the ball away. I know it's easy to play armchair quarterback, but I have no idea what he saw there.
I agree that Kraght isn't ready for primetime. The timing between he and the receivers was way off, plus he had that pick. Could be a result of him just not getting the snaps with the 1's in practice.
GreenGiant
Active member
We are likely stuck with Burton for another year. However, unless Barnum is under contract for another year, I can't imagine him being here next season. He has proven to be ineffective as a play caller, and frankly had Brad Davis not had the front line clicking on all cylinders the last few years, I think the offense would have been as bad as it is now.
As I've said before, Burton may resign and find another job as a recruiter in another program before the ship and any market value he has left in football is completely eroded. If that's the case we may end up with a new coach and at least a few new staff members. However, what kind of a job does PSU represent at this point? I can't imagine getting a top flight coach.
As I've said before, Burton may resign and find another job as a recruiter in another program before the ship and any market value he has left in football is completely eroded. If that's the case we may end up with a new coach and at least a few new staff members. However, what kind of a job does PSU represent at this point? I can't imagine getting a top flight coach.
goviks2 said:
Well said, goviks2. That was exactly what I thought as I left the game. You know he has to feel horribly about how the season has gone. I've never met McDonagh but he seems to represent the school well. I think this season has made us forget that he is already in the top 10 all time for career total offense at PSU. I'm not saying he is doing an amazing job. I'm just saying that he can obviously be effective at that level of football. I just don't know what is different about this year vs others for him.
BroadwayVik
Active member
Wish List coaching staff:
.........................
Head Coach: June Jones
OC: Al Borges 
DC: Jaime Hill
QBs: Neil Lomax 
"Associate Head Coach"(Special Teams Coordinator & Recruiting): Nigel Burton
NFL Advisor Sages:
Mouse Davis 
Jerry Glanville
.........................
Head Coach: June Jones OC: Al Borges DC: Jaime Hill QBs: Neil Lomax "Associate Head Coach"(Special Teams Coordinator & Recruiting): Nigel BurtonNFL Advisor Sages:
Mouse Davis Jerry GlanvilleFor all the same old stuff here, and never mind that, in another situation, it would be past time for Burton to be relieved of his duties (there's certainly no chance he survives a new AD), we have a bigger problem. It's not that even OSU and WSU trips may NOT be enough.
That CAN have absolute zilch to do with Burton.
Every Big Sky coach, every FCS coach, and even coaches of NW Pac-12 schools wanting quality walk-ons can go on a recruiting visit and bring up an Oregonian article or two about the program being under threat and the athletic department being basically internally at odds with itself in the aftermath. You cannot argue that these exist. Recruiting became really hard this year, and I don't have to have a whiff of inside knowledge to know that. It's the easiest guess in the book.
If you want to say that Takeru Kobayashi made Sportscenter and perhaps drummed up interest despite an announced crowd of 4,083 and a paid of 809 two weeks ago, what was the paid on Saturday for an announced 3,193?
We could talk about publicity (what Hersh is trying to do because it's relatively cheap) vs promotion (requiring a lot of money that the AD doesn't have in addition to trying to figure out WHERE you spend that money). Despite a business degree, I can start yakking about how the product sometimes sells itself AND recall a quote I've seen from someone saying "the worst insult you can make to a man is that he believes advertising." Then I'm watching Hersh try to do what he's doing, but as pricing is part of marketing...
...that last one begs a question. If your goal is FBS, you have to be ready for FBS ticket prices. Is that what Hersh is testing? Are the results of the test resoundingly evident?
Guychamp said:
That CAN have absolute zilch to do with Burton.
Every Big Sky coach, every FCS coach, and even coaches of NW Pac-12 schools wanting quality walk-ons can go on a recruiting visit and bring up an Oregonian article or two about the program being under threat and the athletic department being basically internally at odds with itself in the aftermath. You cannot argue that these exist. Recruiting became really hard this year, and I don't have to have a whiff of inside knowledge to know that. It's the easiest guess in the book.
If you want to say that Takeru Kobayashi made Sportscenter and perhaps drummed up interest despite an announced crowd of 4,083 and a paid of 809 two weeks ago, what was the paid on Saturday for an announced 3,193?
We could talk about publicity (what Hersh is trying to do because it's relatively cheap) vs promotion (requiring a lot of money that the AD doesn't have in addition to trying to figure out WHERE you spend that money). Despite a business degree, I can start yakking about how the product sometimes sells itself AND recall a quote I've seen from someone saying "the worst insult you can make to a man is that he believes advertising." Then I'm watching Hersh try to do what he's doing, but as pricing is part of marketing...
...that last one begs a question. If your goal is FBS, you have to be ready for FBS ticket prices. Is that what Hersh is testing? Are the results of the test resoundingly evident?
GreenGiant
Active member
I saw an article someplace about football budgets....PSU's budget was towards the top of the Big Sky even after the budget cuts. At least that is my recollection.
thundercatt99
Member
The above is true it seems re budgets
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Believe the Athletic Director wanted to get rid of Burton last year but was told he couldn't, no money. Unless Burton choices to leave on his own we are stuck with him until his contract expires. When he does leave who would want to coach at PSU when the President and his gang prefer to see the football program dropped.
faithinviks
Active member
The boys are playing hard. The offense and defense lines are playing pretty good. The decision making at the QB level is suspect at times but given QB's don't get a lot of skill development coaching it's tough for them. The QB coach needs to change, those responsible for offensive play calling need to be changed, the defensive back coach needs to change...
But all is not lost. PSU is the perfect place for a winning coach who is young trying to make a name for himself or an older coach more established at a lower level who would see this as a great reward for a proven career. Read the history of Coach Freeze at Ole Miss. Great High School state champion coach, worked his way up, innovative play caller and his players loved him. Now look at what he is doing at just 45 years old. What about someone like a Coach Casey (brother Pat is the baseball coach at Oregon State). Years of great success at the High School level with a state championship from Aloha that was in the cellar for 20 years before he got there. Now in his first year at George Fox.
Look for a coach who has proven himself to be a winner. We don't have to fret over a big name. They won't come here and we can't come close to paying them. There are a lot of coaches with track records of being a winner and a motivator and being able to surround themselves with the right staff.
What we need is bold leadership at the athletic level...the AD hire will tell us all how committed PSU leadership is to football and the other sports at PSU...hold out for hope...
But all is not lost. PSU is the perfect place for a winning coach who is young trying to make a name for himself or an older coach more established at a lower level who would see this as a great reward for a proven career. Read the history of Coach Freeze at Ole Miss. Great High School state champion coach, worked his way up, innovative play caller and his players loved him. Now look at what he is doing at just 45 years old. What about someone like a Coach Casey (brother Pat is the baseball coach at Oregon State). Years of great success at the High School level with a state championship from Aloha that was in the cellar for 20 years before he got there. Now in his first year at George Fox.
Look for a coach who has proven himself to be a winner. We don't have to fret over a big name. They won't come here and we can't come close to paying them. There are a lot of coaches with track records of being a winner and a motivator and being able to surround themselves with the right staff.
What we need is bold leadership at the athletic level...the AD hire will tell us all how committed PSU leadership is to football and the other sports at PSU...hold out for hope...
