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time for this staff to go

I think with the right AD Burton could be convinced to leave. Seriously, does he think that killing a football program in the Big Sky will look good on his resume'?

If he was smart he would line up some sort of job and cut ties while he still has some credibility. Remind me again why Tim Walsh isn't here any more?
 
GreenGiant said:
Remind me again why Tim Walsh isn't here any more?

Walsh wasn't a "seller". He played that boring ball control offense and won (hand it off to Fuqua, hand it off to Rubin and watch them race to the end zone). I agree with you, though. Walsh's "boring" ball control offense just beat Montana AND Montana State on consecutive weekends.

If we are talking about a new coach, I'd say the next coach has to know Portland State, and what all we are up against, the struggles and shortcomings we face. He needs to know Oregon, how to recruit and keep not only a majority of Oregon high school athletes here, but the best of the FCS talent around here and not lose them to other Big Sky schools. He needs to know the Big Sky, the idea that you aren't going to get 90% of the calls in Bozeman, Missoula, and Cheney, and that you will be playing in revamped rodeo arenas in Pocatello, Flagstaff and Grand Forks.

June Jones would be fine except that when I heard that news conference at SMU, I heard a man who was burned out. Would he really want to try to rebuild the program here? Would his heart really be in it? The coach I would like to see if we can get is Robin Pflugrad. I think he would like the opportunity to get PSU football up and running and I also think he wants another shot to win in the Big Sky, given the circumstances in how he left.
 
Pflugrad would be a good choice. Maybe Don Baily, a former vik and now at ISU. MY guess is there are a lot of coaches who could be successful. :wtf:
 
golfer said:
Pflugrad would be a good choice. Maybe Don Baily, a former vik and now at ISU. MY guess is there are a lot of coaches who could be successful. :wtf:

If Pflugrad's name isn't mentioned on the park blocks, they really are trying to let the program die a slow death.
 
thundercatt99 said:
The above is true it seems re budgets

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While I was ready to let this go, something got into my head last night.

(1) No two schools have the same accounting methods FWIW.

(2) Let's take Idaho State. There is no in-state tuition. Fees tend to make up for much of that, but not close to tuition in Oregon. This assumes that scholarships are expensed on the AD's books. That's one thing not universally done.

(3) Eastern Idaho... ag-based, heavily Mormon (frugal), not rich, population base of Pocatello and Idaho Falls might reach 250,000.

(4) Marketing. I don't see much TV marketing in Portland, and it's questionable if ISU does much better. What I generally see in both cases are billboards. ISU usually bought a board west of Pocatello near American Falls. Daily traffic count: 10,500. If they have one along I-15 near Holt Arena, 15,000 cars a day see it. PSU usually has a billboard along SW Columbia (since there's none to place before the Vista Ridge Tunnel, where 150,000 cars per day would see it), so 5,500 cars a day see that. If a billboard were placed near Hillsboro Stadium, 55,000 cars would see it. If you advertise on network over-air TV, 3 million people would see it versus 250,000... and given the reach of Comcast, probably 2 million of that number see a cable TV-based campaign.

So think of how much it costs to advertise in Pocatello as opposed to Portland.

How much does it cost to house athletes in Pocatello compared to Portland?

Of course it's a bigger budget for PSU. Is it self-sustaining given all those factors?
 
Pounder said:
Marketing. I don't see much TV marketing in Portland, and it's questionable if ISU does much better. What I generally see in both cases are billboards. ISU usually bought a board west of Pocatello near American Falls. Daily traffic count: 10,500. If they have one along I-15 near Holt Arena, 15,000 cars a day see it. PSU usually has a billboard along SW Columbia (since there's none to place before the Vista Ridge Tunnel, where 150,000 cars per day would see it), so 5,500 cars a day see that. If a billboard were placed near Hillsboro Stadium, 55,000 cars would see it. If you advertise on network over-air TV, 3 million people would see it versus 250,000... and given the reach of Comcast, probably 2 million of that number see a cable TV-based campaign.

I have to agree with the marketing aspect, and it is something I've talked about on other sites. After Lillard won NBA Rookie of the Year, Weber put a huge billboard on I-15 south before entering Ogden and also put a huge billboard in downtown Salt Lake City, within walking distance of University of Utah's western edge of the main campus. I would have loved to have had a billboard during the Super Bowl down around Junction City (between Eugene and Corvallis) with Julius Thomas in his Broncos gear facing off with DeShawn Shead in his Seahawks gear with a slogan on it sort of like "No matter what side you're on, we've got you covered" and put the PSU logo on it.

Another marketing aspect, Horizon (Alaska) Airlines have planes flying in to PDX decked out in colors and emblems of Montana, Montana State and Eastern Washington (among bigger schools). With Portland being a secondary hub for Alaska Airlines, I don't see why we can't get a plane in our colors. That would be nice.

Wishful thinking, I know. :roll:
 
That's always irked me that we don't have a plane advertising PSU, yet other Big Sky schools do.

Embarrassing.
 
I think the bottom line is PSU acts as if it were not fully serious. It does not do its best. Purposefully?

Are there elements other than the budget that constrain PSU? Is it the compentency of the inside decision-makers or is someone leaning on the university, compelling it not to act fully in its own best interest?

Is the leadership sleepwalking or is it being threatened politically from the outside?

Why did Mayor Charlie Hales, for example, withdraw the plan to upgrade the campus district based on urban renewal funds? We need to elect a PSU alum loyal to PSU to the mayoral office of Portland. I don't trust Hales' move to withdraw the funds in favor of some "better plan." What exactly IS his "better plan"?

Do we have wealthy alums who retain their loyalty? Portlanders blindly vote Democrat. Whoever were to run would have to win the Democratic nomination. Even NYC will elect a Republican every-so-often (e.g. Juliani).
 
BroadwayVik said:
I think the bottom line is PSU acts as if it were not fully serious. It does not do its best. Purposefully?

Are there elements other than the budget that constrain PSU? Is it the compentency of the inside decision-makers or is someone leaning on the university, compelling it not to act fully in its own best interest?

Is the leadership sleepwalking or is it being threatened politically from the outside?

Why did Mayor Charlie Hales, for example, withdraw the plan to upgrade the campus district based on urban renewal funds? We need to elect a PSU alum loyal to PSU to the mayoral office of Portland. I don't trust Hales' move to withdraw the funds in favor of some "better plan." What exactly IS his "better plan"?

Do we have wealthy alums who retain their loyalty? Portlanders blindly vote Democrat. Whoever were to run would have to win the Democratic nomination. Even NYC will elect a Republican every-so-often (e.g. Juliani).

I recall Lisa Birnbach's College Book. I didn't get to read all of it, and I had transferred on to Eugene by the time it came out. It wasn't exactly comprehensive... it was actually notable for focusing as much on campus life (including the ease and/or likelihood of sex on campus) as on academics. Not that it didn't have a nugget or two. Of course, I think the only Oregon school she covered was Reed College.

Funny thing at the time- Birnbach did cover the University of Washington (which someone here has pined after before). The consensus answer from Washington students to "the worst major on campus" was something to the effect of "if I tell you, the administration will close that department." Now consider how that affects the departments on campus. They kind of compete with each other, right?

Nobody appears to have disputed John Canzano's assertion that PSU is essentially every department for itself. Not here, not in the dreaded comments... why even start a discussion about external factors? Never mind that the state's politics means the entire university system is pretty much acting the way PSU does internally, and the state's conservatives will champion anyone who stabs big gashing holes in it, especially in anything in Portland, because it's politically profitable in the rural areas of Oregon to hate Portland. In short... DOH!

An edit- by the unholy freaking way, why are we talking about the mayor here? The lack of support for university education in this state is a time-worn freaking tradition. Everyone has been getting gruel, basically. If nothing else, it's the Governor, stupid!
 
This is all predicated on there still being a football program after Burton's contract expires. The way things are going now I'm not very optimistic about it continuing in a few years.
 
Burton's mission may be to set the table for the next coach as he is not acting as if he were serious about remaining here as head coach. My guess is that times ahead will be of one of two extremes:

(1) an era of punctuated development under a much better head coach, or

(2) football is eliminated (for the time being) as the coaches keep hitting the self-destruct button.

BTW, notice that Tim Walsh is now hitting his own self-destruct button again. Why has the administration here settled for a sub-par football identity in this timeframe could only rationally be explained by one of the two above futures.
 
The other thing worth exploring is having football go FCS Independent. Once the Pac-12 decides not to schedule the Big Sky anymore, those schools are going to need a DI counter for their playoff aspirations. We could say that we would not travel more than 750 miles one way (which means no going to North Dakota), but if schools outside that area want to play us, they can come here. It is certainly easier for fans in Missoula to come here than get to places like Cedar Falls, Iowa or Huntsville, Texas or Cullowee, North Carolina. Our other sports would not have to drop out of DI and we could fill the other dates with the DII and DIII schools around here, bringing in nearby fans from those schools to Providence Park, or Hillsboro. We would have to sacrifice playing for a conference championship and a chance for the playoffs ourselves so I don't know how that would affect recruiting but it is better than closing football altogether.

Maybe something worth looking in to.
 
DustRunner said:
This is all predicated on there still being a football program after Burton's contract expires. The way things are going now I'm not very optimistic about it continuing in a few years.

I heard from a good source that PSU is not going to drop football. Also, the school is actively recruiting some big names to apply for the AD position. It's easy to get in the gloom and doom mode with the way the football season has turned out, but are there things to be optimistic about...... the biggest one would be the Viking Pavilion, which could make the Vikings a mid-level powerhouse in basketball and overall, help the University in many ways. As for Burton, I really disappointed with him and am ready for a change. He has had enough time to be better than this.
 
forestgreen said:
DustRunner said:
This is all predicated on there still being a football program after Burton's contract expires. The way things are going now I'm not very optimistic about it continuing in a few years.

I heard from a good source that PSU is not going to drop football. Also, the school is actively recruiting some big names to apply for the AD position. It's easy to get in the gloom and doom mode with the way the football season has turned out, but are there things to be optimistic about...... the biggest one would be the Viking Pavilion, which could make the Vikings a mid-level powerhouse in basketball and overall, help the University in many ways. As for Burton, I really disappointed with him and am ready for a change. He has had enough time to be better than this.

I hope these names for the AD spot include those that already have Viking Green in their blood and know the weaknesses and threats to Portland State athletics on day one.
 
forestgreen said:
DustRunner said:
This is all predicated on there still being a football program after Burton's contract expires. The way things are going now I'm not very optimistic about it continuing in a few years.

I heard from a good source that PSU is not going to drop football. Also, the school is actively recruiting some big names to apply for the AD position. It's easy to get in the gloom and doom mode with the way the football season has turned out, but are there things to be optimistic about...... the biggest one would be the Viking Pavilion, which could make the Vikings a mid-level powerhouse in basketball and overall, help the University in many ways. As for Burton, I really disappointed with him and am ready for a change. He has had enough time to be better than this.

ForestGreen: That is great to hear. Huge mistake to drop football. With the right coach, this would be a compelling program. First step is to get a great AD. Torre Chisholm was hired from a non-football school. He made a bad call on a football coach. Next AD needs to come from a school that has football.
 

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